elior77

Hey,

I would like to get it right.

All NB:

VICS = Varible Intake control system
BP-4W
99-00


VTCS = Variable Tumble Control System
01-05 (VVT+VTCS)


VCT = VVT = Variable Valve Timing
BP-Z3
01-05 (VVT+VTCS)

Chiburbian

iTrader: (1)

I believe VICS was 1999-2000.
VTCS 2001-2005.

I feel like there are is a second set of butterflys in the 2001-2005 VTCS manifolds as well, but they don't operate the same way. I would have to look again though.

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

99-00 VICS
01-05 VVT + VTCS

this could be found on wikipedia.

although the way they describe VICS is incorrect.

I'm not sure what the 04-05 MSM came with, I don't believe those had VVT, but they still had the VTCS IM.


If you own a 01-05, you should make the efforts in fitting a 99-00 VICS IM.

Dunning Kruger Affect

VICS = NB1, butterflies sandwiched between the two pieces of the manifold
VTCS = NB2, butterflies at the intake runner that mate to the motor

There's another OE intake, but it was EU and Japanese domestic markets only; referred to as EUDM/JDM Squaretops.

For relative performance, here's how they stack up:
VICS = best all around intake, makes decent amount of torque
VTCS = used for emissions purposes, no real performance to speak of
Squaretop = higher peak HP at the expense of mid-range torque

concealer404

iTrader: (3)

MSM is VTCS on 4w head.

elior77

according to haltech msm base maps, it is VICS on msm...

concealer404

iTrader: (3)

MSM is VTCS on 4w head.


Souce: Had an MSM. Running Haltech.

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

sucks for MSM haltech users.


It's what Concealer has said.

MSM = 99-00 head with an 01-05 VTSC IM.


If I were to build a miata it would be with a 01-05 VVT head and a 99-00 VICS IM.

elior77

base map is wrong ?

DPO17 is configured for "Dual intake valve"
On its settings you configure:

On value:
Off Value:

Pre configured to 5250rpm on, 5150 off

On the 01-05 base maps I find only VCT on DPO17 and no VTCS output...

What do you make of it ?

Even MS control VTCS... weird...

concealer404

iTrader: (3)

It's still just an on/off switch. It doesn't matter.

I don't understand what you're trying to figure out. Tune your car.

18psi

iTrader: (76)

There are mistakes everywhere. What these guys are saying is true. MSM - vtcs. And vtcs control is just powering a solenoid to open/close, any EMS can likely do it.

I'm also trying to figure out what your question is or where you're going with this thread.

curly

iTrader: (25)

FTFY.

The real difference is in the dyno graphs. I tuned a VVT with VTCS intake manifold that consistently had 5 extra hp and 5 extra ft/lbs than another VVT engine with a VICS manifold. But the VTCS started dropping off at 6200rpm, and the VICS engine pulled out a 8hp and 6ft/lb lead by 7000rpm.

I'll post the graph soon.

Voltwings

Bump, its "soon."

I got a spare, free VTCS manifold for my 01. I've seen 100 different threads say 100 different things, so i figure whats one more in deciding if its worth porting, or just holding out for a VICS / square top. The car is a street car now, so i like having the torque, but it'll be a full time track rat come fall.

curly

iTrader: (25)

I'm still waiting to get dyno files from the VICs enabled car. Unless you'd like me to compare a VTCS manifold to a MSM.

concealer404

iTrader: (3)

That'd be fun. Too bad they're the same manifold.

curly

iTrader: (25)

...with a turbo though. Not a great comparison.

curly

iTrader: (25)

Ok, here ya go. STD correction took out some of the advantage the VTCS motor had when I last looked at the graph, but you can still see the green line's fairly significant jump in power above ~6400rpm. To the tune of 13hp and 10ft/lbs by red line.

elior77

I stated what I want in my first post:

"I would like to get it right."

That is all.

my97miata

From what I understand, you're suppose to have the VICS's butterfly valves switch open @ 2000 revs when used on a VVT engine. Instead of 5400 RPM like on a non-VVT engine.

curly

iTrader: (25)

Two dyno tests have show a 99 Vics and VVT VIC needing the same setting, open around 3500, then closed again at 5500. Or vice versa I forget. But they both needed to open/close in the midrange, not just one rpm for the best dyno graph.