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Old 02-18-2014, 10:41 AM   #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiburbian View Post
Here you go.
Composite log was taken while cranking, right? Were you in "log cam and crank" mode?
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Old 02-18-2014, 11:03 AM   #202
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Comparison of chiburbian's composite log to 18psi's composite log. Note the offset in CKP vs CMP signal.

If chiburbian's cam was at 0 advance, this is a pretty big difference. First 2 pics zoomed out, shows 2 full engine cycles. Note sync errors in 18psi's log. Next 2 pics are zoomed in after the CMP double tooth, showing separation from CKP tooth.




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Fired up the new setup/engine, weird issue-18psi-composite.jpg   Fired up the new setup/engine, weird issue-chiburbian-composite.jpg   Fired up the new setup/engine, weird issue-18psi-composite-zoom.png   Fired up the new setup/engine, weird issue-chiburbian-composite-zoom.png  
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Old 02-18-2014, 11:07 AM   #203
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Ben, you are awesome thank you so much.

So my triggger teeth on the intake cam are somehow retarded?
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Old 02-18-2014, 11:18 AM   #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
Ben, you are awesome thank you so much.

So my triggger teeth on the intake cam are somehow retarded?
The ECU is reading your cam as being more retarded than the minimum advance or "more retarded than the maximum retarded it could be". Hopefully that conveys the point; it's tricky to write out.

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Old 02-18-2014, 11:19 AM   #205
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Gotcha.

So you were right

Thanks again Ben, EO's cam should be here by the end of the week hopefully, I can't wait.
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Old 02-18-2014, 11:22 AM   #206
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Tack weld this one, just to be sure. Clean the bejesus out of it, and I mean let it soak in solvent over night.
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Old 02-18-2014, 11:24 AM   #207
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LOL I won't be tack welding his cam. I might TIG my own though if I can somehow get the ring seated in the perfect location.

What I'll MOST likely be doing if this proves to be the "fix" is ordering a brand new one from Mazda and returning EO2k's back to him.

More work, but at least I'll "know" before buying more crap
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Old 02-18-2014, 11:28 AM   #208
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It might actually be less work. There was just so much oil in my used cam the weld was just terrible. It was like soaked into the seam between the pieces.
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Old 02-18-2014, 11:32 AM   #209
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I pray to allah that this is the issue. godspeed vlad
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Old 02-18-2014, 11:36 AM   #210
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The composite log pretty much confirms it. This is the first time I've heard of it happening outside of an auto-x car.
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Old 02-18-2014, 11:37 AM   #211
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RIGHT??!!

And here I thought I've pretty much "seen it all"
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Old 02-18-2014, 11:42 AM   #212
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This is some great news!!!!! Yay for not parting the car out! Lol
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Old 02-18-2014, 11:44 AM   #213
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Just to clarify, I was logging while the engine was running. Is this a problem? I am at work now and won't be home until 7pm central but I'd be happy to get more logs if it will make sure we are seeing what we think we are seeing.
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Old 02-18-2014, 11:46 AM   #214
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I don't think it matters, since both times the engine is rotating, yours is just doing it faster than mine, but the triggers should still show up in the same pattern.

But I'll let smart people like Ben to confirm or deny that.
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Old 02-18-2014, 11:49 AM   #215
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BTW - this makes me wonder what kind of trauma your donor engine experienced. First the VVT actuator plastic ring being shattered now this? What are the odds?
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Old 02-18-2014, 11:51 AM   #216
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I'm pretty sure its not from trauma. Remember when I started/ran it before setting valve lash? It fired up and ran no problem.

I'm GUESSING that when I took the cam out to do valve lash I may have set it down on the bench with the trigger ring and it tapped it out of place. I'll take a picture of the little nick/dent on one of the teeth that I saw through the vc hole yesterday.

I actually have posted pictures of this engine when I pulled it from the donor NB. It was fine.'

*EDIT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
minor update





Yanked out spare engine. Put it on a stand. Yanked off both manifolds, wiring, and lines. Will start tearing apart, cleaning, and inspecting. Prepping for build.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
Moar progress:








Engine looks to still be in great shape: cross hatching still perfect. head looks super clean. Valves look fine too. It had a bad headgasket, so will probably have to resurface the head just in case.

So far so good.
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Old 02-18-2014, 11:55 AM   #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiburbian View Post
Just to clarify, I was logging while the engine was running. Is this a problem? I am at work now and won't be home until 7pm central but I'd be happy to get more logs if it will make sure we are seeing what we think we are seeing.
I would rather have a log with the cam commanded to 0 advance. If you simply unplugged the OCV, it wouldn't matter if the engine is running. No oil pressure = full retard. I'm pretty confident that the conclusion will be the same, but it would be nice to get the best data possible.

Wish I could help. I've got the car and the MS3, but don't have a stock crank trigger wheel. I've been testing a FM 36-2 wheel.

<edit> your datalog show commanded advance of 3 there. There's A LOT more variance than 3 between the 2 composite logs.
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Old 02-18-2014, 11:56 AM   #218
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11 pages. There are full build threads shorter than this thread...

Hope we got it figured out this time. We surely learned a LOT.

Ben, I will do a log with the OCV unplugged tonight "for the good of the cause." We can keep it on file as a reference.

Last edited by Chiburbian; 02-18-2014 at 12:44 PM.
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Old 02-18-2014, 09:55 PM   #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ben View Post
Comparison of chiburbian's composite log to 18psi's composite log. Note the offset in CKP vs CMP signal.

If chiburbian's cam was at 0 advance, this is a pretty big difference. First 2 pics zoomed out, shows 2 full engine cycles. Note sync errors in 18psi's log. Next 2 pics are zoomed in after the CMP double tooth, showing separation from CKP tooth.




I need your smart brain in my thread:
https://www.miataturbo.net/megasquir...8/#post1103610

Maybe I just need to be more emo. I'm gonna part out my cars guysssss!
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Old 02-19-2014, 01:05 AM   #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richyvrlimited View Post
The CKP trigger is a separate disc on the back of the crank pulley, it's located via the 4 M6 bolts which bolt into the lower cam belt gear, (and also hold the crank pulley on).

It can't slip.
I stand corrected. I found that only on the <99 models, the outer ring of the harmonic damper acts as the trigger for the Crank Position Sensor.
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