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Old 02-09-2014, 10:40 PM   #21
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I was talking about the metal cast block on top of the valve cover. I took the actuator out, all the gaskets/o-rings out and it was completely bare, literally just a piece of metal with noting whatsoever still bolted on to it. The thing I left in accidentally that melted was a rubber plug that I used to plug the hole so no vht went inside. It wasn't part of the assembly or anything

But yeah I'm basically following all the inputs here and starting to troubleshoot starting with easiest/fastest things to check to the more complex ones.
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Old 02-09-2014, 10:56 PM   #22
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What ignition coil set up are you running?

I would check mechanical timing and check actual ignition timing to what MS is displaying once running.
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Old 02-09-2014, 11:03 PM   #23
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stock 2001 COPs

I checked timing with a light despite it running stupid rich and blowing smoke from running so rich. It was actually fine.
Locked at 10* in MS and the two notches lined up on the crank pulley vs the cover.

but yeah that's further on the list after I check this vvt valve stuff
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Old 02-10-2014, 10:44 AM   #24
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Did you lock the VVT mechanism to full retard when you put it back on? I took mine apart when I replaced my timing belt because I stripped on of the torx screws on the bolt cover. When I put it back together I had to crank the gear CCW while holding the cam still. you will feel it click. You might not need to do this since you didn't disassemble, but something to check.

If you think the solenoid is the problem, you can pull it and confirm it moves when you put 12 volts on it. I think it is just 1 10mm bolt to pull it from the valve cover.

Funny story though, Mine is currently exhibiting similar symptoms, (I had the belt off to set the valve lash) I have not had time to look at because of the recent snow storm we had up here. That and it's too goddamn cold in the garage. I will try to man up and take a look to see if I can find anything.


Does anyone know what direction the cam goes with increasing PWM? If you unplug or disable the solenoid, it should advance fully or retard fully depending on which directions the solenoid is at rest. not sure if the engine will run at idle fully advanced or retarded.
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Old 02-10-2014, 10:45 AM   #25
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double post apparently
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Old 02-10-2014, 10:49 AM   #26
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See I totally didn't even pay attention to the fact that the vvt gear can be physically rotated when setting the mechanical timing, and there is a possibility that its set at full advance mechanically since all I did was set the timing marks to the appropriate locations.

The more you guys talk about it the more I think I screwed up the timing belt install lol
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Old 02-10-2014, 11:17 AM   #27
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I don't think it is normally mentioned in timing change procedures, because it should lock on its own when the oil pressure drops and the engine stops. The only reason I know anything about it is because I had to take my vvt apart.
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Old 02-10-2014, 11:22 AM   #28
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I still think it's curious that it cranked up and ran fine for 30 seconds at least twice in a row (if I'm reading right), before shutting off each time.

Is it possible the little pin on the back of that VVT gear got stuck in full retard or something?
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Old 02-10-2014, 11:29 AM   #29
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Yeah that's the stupid thing: the 1st and 2nd time it "did that" it fired up perfectly on the 1st try and had more or less decent AFR's and all that before it flipped out and shut off.

That's kinda what made me think it was a tuning/MS issue at 1st
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Old 02-10-2014, 11:36 AM   #30
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Any way to verify oil pressure getting to VVT?
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Old 02-10-2014, 11:43 AM   #31
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Not really. I don't have a gauge or sensor and I really don't wanna have to buy one.

If anything I can pull the whole vvt assembly off one of my brothers spare long blocks and swap it out to see if something is wrong with mine.
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Old 02-10-2014, 11:47 AM   #32
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Is there any chance the cam sensor ring slipped? It normally only happens at high rpms, like above stock redline high. The csp car slipped over 60 degrees at one point where it then failed to be able to start or run even when bump started. It got progressively harder and harder to start until it slipped that far. Mine had slipped about 8* last time I checked, but I tack welded it to the cam, so it isnt going anywhere now.
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Old 02-10-2014, 11:49 AM   #33
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I guess it's all speculation, but yeah, sounds like a reasonable thing to swap out if you don't see something more obvious once it's apart. Especially since it's free and a known good.

Sounds possible that you developed some mechanical VVT issue that's giving your timing hell. Maybe even with all the cleaning, some debris got inside it, and is messing with oil pressure. Good luck. Sorry it's being such a PITA.
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Old 02-10-2014, 11:55 AM   #34
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The cam sensor/cam/ring are fine for sure.

Yeah I got a list of crap to troubleshoot and its all relatively straightforward and I hope just vvt related.

Everything else on the engine has been checked like 5 times by now. This is probably the most I've ever double checked anything on any motor lol
So far everything else is perfect, no leaks no issues, I'm happy with it.
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Old 02-10-2014, 11:57 AM   #35
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You are making me second guess myself on MY timing belt install now. Here's the thing though, IF the timing marks are set correctly on the intake gear when it was installed, the cam can only go advance so far. It has a certain range of motion and that's it.

I still think your mechanical cam timing was set incorrectly. Either way I wish you luck. I had to do my timing belt five or six times before I got it right. (the last couple times were me forgetting to put a cover on or stuff like that) I can now do a timing belt in like 30 minutes driving in to driving out. Even as frustrating as it is, once you figure it out you will become proficient, and you will never have this problem again.
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Old 02-10-2014, 12:30 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiburbian View Post
You are making me second guess myself on MY timing belt install now. Here's the thing though, IF the timing marks are set correctly on the intake gear when it was installed, the cam can only go advance so far. It has a certain range of motion and that's it.
A good point; If you were able to set the marks on the belt correctly the VVT should be able to reach zero regardless of what the acctuator actually was at. The Cam sensor ring is is what gives the angle value, not the actuator.

Hmm MS3 reporting 273 degrees as VVT angle, what "zero" supposed to look like (0, 90, 180, 720)?

Not sure it helps at all, but there are two pictures of mine at zero in the thread when i was chasing a lash cap that had ended up sideways.
https://www.miataturbo.net/engine-pe...roblems-72724/
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Old 02-10-2014, 03:40 PM   #37
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Pictures of the timing belt properly aligned with 19 teeth between them.
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Old 02-10-2014, 03:53 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiburbian View Post
You are making me second guess myself on MY timing belt install now. Here's the thing though, IF the timing marks are set correctly on the intake gear when it was installed, the cam can only go advance so far. It has a certain range of motion and that's it.

I still think your mechanical cam timing was set incorrectly. Either way I wish you luck. I had to do my timing belt five or six times before I got it right. (the last couple times were me forgetting to put a cover on or stuff like that) I can now do a timing belt in like 30 minutes driving in to driving out. Even as frustrating as it is, once you figure it out you will become proficient, and you will never have this problem again.
I have set my time incorrectly more often than correctly, (I consider myself an expert in screwing up timing belt installations) unless you are grossly off, the engine should fire up. The stock ECU (in my case, I know you are running ms) will set a code for the timing being off, but it will be drivable if a bit gutless. This assumes you are within 1 or 2 teeth.
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Old 02-10-2014, 04:09 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shuiend View Post
Pictures of the timing belt properly aligned with 19 teeth between them.
I know for a fact all the marks were perfectly right and actually did count the teeth and was at 19 just like required.

But yeah hopefully updates later today.
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Old 02-10-2014, 04:23 PM   #40
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post selfies.
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