Head Swap Questions
 

I have searched this board with every keyword I could think of, and I could not find a central location for all of the information I'm looking for. I found a great condition '99 head for next to nothing, so it appears I may go that route.

For a '99 head swap, I know I'm going to need the '99-'00 intake manifold.

The fuel rail/regulator/return is of no concern because I have the dual feed rail that was group bought a while back and it has 2 return ports to choose from.

Now for the questions I have:

Can I get rid of the plug on the back of the head and use my '95 CAS?
Can I use my '95 valve cover?
What does it take to make the VICS system work properly? RPM switch?
I want to do the DIY P&P, but want to know what book it is that everyone keeps recommending for it.

Anything else I'm missing?

Thanks!

Yes.
Yes. The 99' valve cover has a provision for the 99 CPS (cam position sensor, not cam angle sensor), but you won't need it if you run the CAS.
Yes. You'll need a window switch to trigger the solenoid. MS will do this if you have spare outputs. I also have fancy MSD Digital window switch F/S if you are interested.
"How to Build, Modify, & Power Tune Cylinder Heads" by Peter Burgess and David Gollan. There are others too, but this is a good one. I suggest getting this one and maybe another and reading them BEFORE you buy any parts or do any modifications to the head.

Thanks for the answers. I'm glad I can use my valve cover, it just got back from being powdercoated. lol

How hard is it to remove that plug?

I'm running the Link, so it would have to be the MSD. How much for your switch? And what RPM does the VICS solenoid have to be triggered at?

I'll get that book then. The only parts I will have for the head are the head itself and Neogenesis' stock sized Supertech valves that I bought in preparation for head modification.

Any other items I'm overlooking?

that plug pops right out if you loosen the bridge over it

Yes to all questions. I'd probably advise against a DIY P&P, but if you want to just clean up things like casting marks a little that's OK.

egr plug/plate too.

Thanks Paul. Thought so, but just wanted confirmation.

Ben, why? Doubting my skills? lol I've read of people having good results with it, but definitely open to other input.

Hustler, I have the plates from my current motor, but thanks, good to have a checklist running because I didn't think about those yet.

I'd say practice on an NA 1.8 head. Those are a dime a dozen.

Well, I do have my old one sitting around waiting...

hey hey,im doin this swap come tuesday :). ill let u know what i screw up on ;)

just wondering does it matter what rpm switch u get? lookin at this one :
http://www.hamotorsportsusa.com/msdrpmacsw.html

and what rpm does VICS activate?

hrmmm come to think of it, maybe i should just wait until i get MSPNP :-\

as far as literature goes, i got Keith Tanner's Performance Projects, its suppose to have a rewrite on the swap.

Run it on the dyno VICS off, then run VICS on. The switch point is where the lines cross.

I wish I could use an NA intake plenum, instead of the 99 plenum. :cry:

The switch point is ideally determined with a dyno - however, I've looked at several dynos, and found the switchpoint is always between 5,000 and 5,500, and the factory position is around 5,200. I set mine for 5,250 and never regretted it. I've moved it around, too, but that's where I've left it.

I have a '00 manifold, by the way. I have two, if you want one with secondary injector ports and a rail. :-P

Abe, is the unmodified one for sale? The head I found does not have a manifold with it.

One more question, and this may be a dumb one, but I've never been able to compare a 94-97 and a 99-00 closely, so pardon my ignorance.
But if I can get an '00 intake manifold, can I use my '95 throttle body on it?

I dunno on the throttle body. I think I'm going to have to spend a bit of time figuring out what I'm doing before I sell anything.

I was PM'd by someone that has one for sale. It has the VICS solenoid and actuator, just not a TB, so thus the question. I'm asking just in case I have to go that route.

I had assumed it would work, but honestly do not know. If you can not find a web answer, you are welcome to attempt to bolt your TB to the manifold(s) in my garage.

can u use a 94-97 fuel rail on a 99-00 head?

If you can't, I have about 7 million 1999+ fuel rails.

94-97 throttle body on 99+ manifold - YES
94-97 factory fuel rail on 99+ head/manifold - NO

Rotornut, if you are still looking for an intake manifold i know of someone selling an 01.

thats good news, got my head off today. started swapping things over to the the 2000 head, noticed i didnt have a fuel rail with the new manifold :(.

ill have pics of my chaotic install later on lol. so many hoses ! hope to see some decent results from this swap.

oh one question, on the rpm switch, 3 wires needed, ground(easy to find), 12v(whats suggested?) and an rpm indicator. help a nub out plz?



edit: damn, abe, wanna send me a fuel rail? lol, ill pay for overnight shipping need to have my car running asap :(

Yeah the injector spacing is right but the offset on the mounting tabs for the fuel rail are off. You can make it fit, but it's not worth it. I cut up on old fuel rail to get the tabs, then cut the good on and extended them. Then it fit. but not worth it. It sits on a shelf anyway.

nvm, my fuel rail was hiding from me!

im still stuck on the rpm switch tho

does the harness on the 99-00 fuel rail not match up to the coilpack? looks very similiar but wont hook up, its like the inputs are upside down.

Heh - I didn't think 2k1 manifolds were worth anything except as scrap.

What RPM switch?? There's teh VICS switch, but it doesn't have 3 wires. You mean the cam position sensor, on the front of the valve cover? It's +5, gnd, and signal out. I'd suggest running an MS-II, but I always suggest that. :-)

Thanks, but I don't need it. The seller of the '99 head backed out on me at the last second, so I'm just going to do some work on the '95 head I have. Maybe couple it with the new BEGi IM, and should be good to go.

Abe, he means he has an RPM switch that he's using to trigger the VICS system. He needs to know where to get constant power and an RPM signal so that he can set the VICS to activate at whatever RPM he chooses.

on 95-97 the rpm indictor is on pin # 4L straight on the ECU, just gota find a good ground and 12v around the ecu :-\


wtf is a bsp1 relay? and where does that vaccum hose from it go?

You've got to be kidding me. Even the lowly MS-I must be able to toggle a line high on RPM > 5250, and toggle it low on RPM under it.

It'd be beyond retarded not to.

Well hell, IDK what he's using for EMS. I was just clarifying what he wanted to know. lol
I was going to use an RPM switch as well if I had gotten the '99 head, but then again, I already have the Link.

well, i got my head on finally. it doesnt start, big surprise.

if i were to post massive amounts of pics of my engine could someone help? lol

MSPNP is my next purchase, using the rpm switch as a bandaid to work the vics until i get it

Did you do the timing belt right?

are there any vacuum leaks?

does it run on ether?

did you check for spark, fuel?

is the crossover tube on and the MAF hooked up?

maybe you should start a new thread for " my engine wont start" instead of us filling a good thread on 99 head swaps full of shit. good luck dude.

yeah, guna start a new thread with lots of pictures :)

Link?

Assuming the timing is right, there's a chance you just have the spark or fuel in backwards - though with fuel in the wrong spot, it should still run, if poorly. I forget when the spark swapped sides, but certainly being 180* cam timing out on the ignition would do that. :-)

Does it even "try"?

pics still loading on photobucket :-\

coilwires are right, fuel lines are right(basing it off a 91, are they different?)

it turns over, so it does try. ill have pics here after awhile. battery is dead after tryin to start it, have to wait on the charger also.

um, fuel *lines*? yes, they are different. A NB car doesn't even have a return line.

You're running off the OEM computer? You've seen it spark? It's basic, running a motor - compression, spark, fuel, timing. You have those, you'll be laying rubber in no time. Go shock yourself, you'll know the car knows the motor is turning over (what are you using, the CAS?)

heres a question, tryin to hook up the rpm switch.

this is the solenoid on the back of the manifold, theres two prongs, one for ground, one a hot 12v.... right?
Attachment 210354

which is ground and which is the 12v or am i completely wrong?

Not sure what this has to do with "RPM" switching, that's the EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirculation) valve. Anyway, I can try to find out the polarity when I get home.

Oh, nevermind, I can't. My manifolds are strewn all over the floor, the heads are in piles, and I think the EGR set up is at the bottom of a box of stuff I've removed and.... Maybe someone else knows?

Anyway, it is probably +12V and switched ground, like most things, meaning if you're going to use it for power, it won't always be on.

Yes, and polarity won't matter. Abe's talking about something else.

ah ok thx, its making sense now! think mazda would carry the factory plug for this, could splice or solder it. or does anyone else have a better/easier idea?

Leave it off? :-)

does anyone know if you can use the Nb IAC/throttle body with the NA1.8 engine management?

I don't mean to hijack this thread but I was originally planning on doing this same swap before my head was jacked up by the shipping company. I now have the option for doing a complete 99 engine swap which would be more expensive but would give me some leeway in timing and flexibility for my build. Other than swapping in the CAS from the 97 are there other issues that I have overlooked? I already have my MSPNP for managing it and I do know about the variable intake runners. Aren't the cast iron blocks the same?

compression is higher on a 99, 9.5:1 vs 9.1:1, ive heard things about connecting rods being stronger on a NA 1.8 but who knows?

I am aware of this. I am going to be rebuilding the engine with forged pistons and rods with 8.5 compression ratio. 9.5 pistons are just an extra part left over.

haha, yeah thats easiest but im in a need of low-end tq, especially with my wide open exhaust >.<. after ive put some miles on this head ive noticed more topend hp for sure tho. or i could just wait til MSPnP and a BEGi kit and that would take care of tq problems hah.

Bumping this thread from the dead for the sake of this question. Reason being is that with the '95 TB on my '99 IM, the harness for the IAC is jammed into the silicone inlet tube (FM intercooler kit), which in my mind, is not an optimal situation. I don't have much of a choice for movement either, if I move it to get it only slightly off the harness, it kinks the hose for the reroute. The '99 TB is a much better solution if it will work.

I thought I had read that the voltage for the TPS is different, but if that's the case, the sensor could easily be swapped between TBs, but will the IAC still work properly?

What are you running? a stock NA computer? Get a real computer, like an MS, it'll run everything just fine. The downside is the extra 50 horsepower, but you can just leave your parking brake one to compensate.

Absolutely. I'm running a stock NA computer on my GT2871R powered car. lol No, I'm running a Link. (New EMS will come someday down the road.) I quoted hustler because I'm trying to figure out if the IAC will still function properly if I swapped the NB throttle body on.

I don't KNOW, but I would really think that the two must both run off 12 volts. Getting something other than 12 is hard. It COULD be 5, but that would be hard. They could have wildly different characteristics... so I guess you're right to ask, but I would think a retune of the idle would be all you'd need. It is a guess, though.