ID1000's -> fuel rail fittment
 

I've seen it mentioned once or twice before but I can't find the threads now. I've found that the length of the Bosch EV14 style injectors (I'm using XSpurt) are slightly longer than the stock injectors so that I have to space the fuel rail upwards around 4-5mm to get it to fit right. In doing so the injector extension tops get skewed sideways a bit and the injectors don't sit square to the head. It doesn't leak at all but is this a common fitment problem with any EV14 injector?

xspurt whatever is not ID which is Injector Dynamics.
and no, it is absolutely not the same thing.
Injector dynamics uses the proper bosch cores with the appropriate spacers so all of them fit 100% no modification or anything required.

Ahh ok... that's why I can't find the info I was searching for. There must be several EV14 based injectors though that have the issue.

So is the problem just with the spacers? Maybe I should pick up some of the ID ones.

if you have an opportunity to run ID, do it. they are the best.
but otherwise yeah, there are several different sizes of bosch cores and some companies really suck at properly matching the extension hats to them, much less actually flow matching the 4 and just overall keeping quality control/precision top priority.

hence the price difference

thanks heaps... great info. I'll measure my injectors at some point and report back to see if it's just the spacer or the body of the injector itself. ID release all their dimensions for their injectors so it will be easy to compare.

Double post

I have no idea why in australia its normal to conflate any 1000cc injector with ids.

I have asked for ID by name from reputable efi shops only to be handed generic chinese rubbish, and for the guy to reply 'its the same thing mate'.

No its fucking not.

It isn't windex, its not kleenex, it matters and chinese junk is not interchangeable with ID.

The title of the thread was probably incorrect but I could have sworn that the posts on injector lengths not fitting related to the ID injectors.

I am a culprit of thinking ID's used the same base Bosch body as other EV14 based brands, I was aware that each company applied their own modifications / QC etc to the injectors but I thought the base body and spacer would be identical across all EV14 based injectors. I didn't expect there to be different base core sizing and difference spacers, though looking at pics of the ID injectors they definitely have different shaped spacers.

18PSI when you refer to 'proper Bosch cores' are you inferring that some non ID injectors aren't legit Bosch parts?

Yes absolutely. There's SO many poorly made replicas that ID actually has a whole section about it on their site. (check it out)

Some companies go as far as putting a "injector dynamics" sticker on their replica. it's really bad.

I only buy from trusted sources for this very reason.

But even the ones that do use genuine bosch parts - the actual core is just part of the equation. The real magic is how they're modified and how they're matched and all that. So really, you could buy "genuine" bosch and still have junk.

Here is the dimensions for the Miata model of ID: 64.7mm overall length o-ring to o-ring (ID)
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1464755009

The Xspurts are meant to be 65mm according to the spec page: https://www.injectorsonline.com/au/f...ngth-11mm.html
Unless there is something wrong I can't see where my 5mm difference is coming from. I'll have a good look tonight and see if I can find where the extra length is coming from.

I literally grill my TRUSTED SOURCE of injectors to make sure that he is grilling his trusted source, every time.

Its that bad.

Dann

I know what you mean Dann... is it an Aussie thing or more globally? If you have a look at the first few google links for Xspurt, you'll see them referred to as 'basically ID1000's' in every thread. This is by the guy selling them locally on the Nissan forums. So anyone reading those threads or searching for injectors on *.au websites sees those pages.

I'm not bagging the Xspurts because they work well in my car but it's hard when buying EV14's to trawl through the misinformation to get good info about the differences.

When I want to pass emissions tomorrow, and give the guy a 350whp car he can teach his 16 year old daughter to drive in, I need the real things, which behave exactly as advertised.

Saying xspurts are basically ID1000s is like saying your custom built race car is basically a stock miata. Yes they are both Miatas, but are still very different cars.

I used larger rubbers on the head end of the injectors. They came off my previous injectors and are a little thicker than the o rings that came with the injectors. I prefer them as they seat better against the head.

So to fix the extra few mm of height on the Xspurts I've made a billet fuel rail that places the rail correctly without addition packers. I test fitted it on a spare head.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1465223514

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1465223514

I like having a CNC machine! I've been meaning on making a custom rail to tidy up the engine bay and place the fuel lines either side of my Honda intake manifold.

Wow, that's pretty cool being able to make your own fuel rail.

That's pretty awsome :bigtu: Nice Work!

Yeah... I enjoy making things by hand, but it's even better to be able to model it in 3D, hit print and then watch your part be whittled out of the billet. This fuel rail took around 5 hours of milling all up. I picked up the ally on Friday after making this thread, started it last night, completed one side and then flipped it over and ran the other side this morning.

Tonight I used the tool holder on the lathe to mount the fuel rail and bored out the center with a 175mm drill held in the chuck, drilling in from each end. Luckily they met nicely in the middle. There was a good chance it wouldnt drill straight.

I was toying with the idea of making some custom drop spindles. I would probably only drop the ride height around 20mm so that I can run my current suspension. Maybe run different bearings like the Keisler ones. The hard part would be measuring and placing all the geometry correctly. It would probably take a few prototypes to get it right so I'm not sure its worth it.

I bought my ID725s and ID1000s interstate from Adaptronic despite knowing local sources of these for this reason.
The last thing you want when trying to tune a car yourself is questionable injectors or unknown dead times.

What are everyone's thoughts on running fuel rails without dampers?

I haven't had one for 2 years an haven't seen any issues, though my engine doesn't idle well at the bet of times. My understanding is that most aftermarket FPR's have some damping anyway although it's not located at the fuel rail. Anyone have some more info on it?

@codrus was the one who had issues. He is also running a returnless.

It probably isn't a big deal with the fpr close to the rail, but you need a fuel pressure sensor to be sure.

Rubber lines, or a regulator close to the rail, will dampen the pulses. If you put a regulator in the gas tank, and run stiff lines all the way to the rail, you'll need a damper at or close to the rail. If you keep a regulator close to the rail, it will dampen pulses on its own well enough. I'm doing the latter, and running all the boost and have a fuel pressure sensor, no issues.

You need a fuel pressure sensor and you need to look at it with something high-enough resolution to see the pulses. A gauge is worthless, something that logs at the speed of the MS3 (~ 16 hz, IIRC) will show what looks like random noise around the shape that the fuel pressure curve is supposed to be, and with an oscilloscope you can see the injectors open.

FWIW, this is what the fuel pressure looked like with a Walbro pump, stainless lines, non-return system, id1000s, AEM FPR, manifold referenced, and using an FM fuel rail. The the small factory on-rail damper is installed and the big on-fender damper is deleted. It's the white line in the third graph:

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1465277225

Note that there was no obvious drivability problem in the car, the only reason I know there were 10-15 psi fuel pressure swings is because of the sensor I had installed. Does a return-based system have these same swings? I don't know, I haven't measured one, and AFAIK neither has anybody else on mt.net.

I installed a Radium damper and it completely eliminated the pressure variance.

--Ian

I did.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1465277539

I hate the returnless system.
And I love a well set up return system.

The results are pretty clear.

I see fluctuations in the logs of my fuel pressure, however I think it's actually electrical interference rather than actual readings. When I had the wiring temporarily running to the ECU for testing the fuel pressure sat dead flat, but when I wired it up properly the following day the noise appeared in the signal. It's something I've been meaning to fix as it's most likely my CAS wiring that's not shielded properly... I hate electrics!