Intake piping volume calculator? Proper length and volume intake
I'm looking at making my own intake.
Hoping to not lose torque or horsepower anywhere, but maximize horsepower at 7000rpm I've been trying to find calculators online for estimating volumes for best torque and horsepower gains. Only program I've found is called pipemax, but its a header design program. Any leads on this? I plan on using a long silicone coupler in the front so I can easily slide a pipe back and forth to adjust length. Final intake will be welded aluminum, with a good cone filter and inner velocity stack. Might also have a chamber or two so I dont drop torque. This is mainly why I'd like some help with the calculations. I'm not interested in wasting 240 dollars on a k&n intake that was probably not optimized for air density, 64mm throttle body, or flat top. or anything other than a generic product to make money. |
this has all been done before. search Emilio's posts. 21" I believe, U bend out of tb and back along side the IM
no need to waste any more time. |
huh, so not towards the exhaust side at all? I'll try to find the posts.
thanks bb |
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^legend.
But doesn't every engine have different harmonics? With my N/A subaru we gained 17whp with a very specific length (also 5 hours on the dyno), and literally 1/2" on either side of that didn't make more than a cone filter on the throttle body. Wouldn't I still have significant gains left on the table if I didn't tune the length myself? |
no
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Welp, now I'm back to wanting a calculator for intake volume.
The 21" (throttle body to diameter increase inside the filter) intake is a low volume intake, and will make me lose torque under4000rpm. I'd like to have a box/chamber in my intake to boost torque under 4000, or keep it same as stock. There is ample room for a pretty large chamber, I just need to know what volume to add. I can't just fill up the oem resonator chamber with water and use that volume in my intake, that volume was used specifically with the entire oem intake, and isn't relevant to my 21" length 2.5od 3.75clr tube intake. I also will need to fiddle with intake length, which is specific to every car. (I checked) NB2 optimum lengths are between 19-22 inches I'll have to allow adjustments for, and do virtual dyno runs to see the differences. |
lol ok have fun with that
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Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 1414968)
this has all been done before. search Emilio's posts. 21" I believe, U bend out of tb and back along side the IM
no need to waste any more time. |
Originally Posted by albumleaf
(Post 1415187)
Emilio states no u-bend for best results. Not really sure why you're shitting on this thread when he's asking for something that hasn't been quantified publicly.
Oh and he's a friend of mine, that I've helped with numerous things, so he knows I'm not hazing him. So unwad the panties and take a hike. |
Alriiiiiight I'm out.
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^lol yikes!
I have been annoying 949racing today, and have discovered that just moving the intake pick up point away (filter) from the exhaust side will negate the torque drop of not having the resonating chamber. That's a good point about the vd not being accurate enough. What I have found with 18psi's tough love, is.... at first I'm like, why is he not being helpful.... then i'm like... oh he's right. lol I'll still post my discoveries and pictures of the intake in my build thread. |
So his approach is pointless because the testing method is flawed? Ok :facepalm: if the measuring device can only be accurate up to about 5hp, and you're looking for that last 2hp, it's a waste of time.
Originally Posted by thumpetto007
(Post 1415272)
What I have found with 18psi's tough love, is.... at first I'm like, why is he not being helpful.... then i'm like... oh he's right. lol I'll still post my discoveries and pictures of the intake in my build thread. But I know you're bored and have tons of time on your hands, so know yourself out :fael: it will actually be pretty easy and cheap to do all this, and you'll probably learn a thing or two |
:love:
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No, no the proper length is however long you need to make it to your intercooler and back up to your turbo......quit wasting time trying to make power N/A.
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^ that's in a few years. Unless you have a TSE 6258 kit plus 350hp intercooler kit, full exhaust and ID1000 injectors. I will also take mk turbo kit plus intercooler kit and ID1000. I have a 2001 Miata, with a/c.
The only thing keeping me sane is doing little projects on my car to waste time more productively. |
Or you could do a proven budget build with a 2560, cast manifold, eBay intercooler, MS2 and rx8 injectors for less than 2 grand (I spent less) and max out what your trans and motor can take.
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Originally Posted by Bronson M
(Post 1415316)
Or you could do a proven budget build with a 2560, cast manifold, eBay intercooler, MS2 and rx8 injectors for less than 2 grand (I spent less) and max out what your trans and motor can take.
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I know there are budget builds out there, but I also need way more practice with the ms3 basic before I can safely tune with boost.
These little projects all help me learn something different about it, and I'm slowly accumulating good working knowledge. |
If you already have a MS3 you're on your way to being ready. While I was N/A I slapped a 90* silicone ell off the throttle body, just enough short section to get an AIT sensor in and put a cone filter on the end and honestly couldn't feel a difference over a stock setup. AIT's did drop considerably.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...422a5ff039.jpg |
that setup sounds cool, and probably adds a few ponies up top, but does lose midrange iirc. someone here dyno'd it. probably not enough to "feel" though
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Yeah that's my point and yours as well......the power is marginal, hard to even measure. Depending on what application you're building the car for there a ton of other items that are worth your time.
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I'd be curious to see him route an intake down just like we normally route IC piping, and then into the bumper, to draw from the passenger front side of the car.
I vaguely recall someone on mnet doing this many years ago, with decent results. Would have to heat wrap the thing though, to keep the radiator air off it |
You need this.
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...6104ed324c.jpg |
In response to 18psi - That's the way I've always wanted to route the intake, that way it gets the freshest air. It would be longer than Emilio found to be the ideal length, but might be offset by getting much cooler air.
Also, it would be neat to convert the passenger headlight into an air feed for a custom air intake box. |
I pretty much did that with my turbo inlet piping.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...113474df05.jpg https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...a43a5a128f.jpg https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...331548dc22.jpg https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...4badb4449e.jpg The key is the ducting, seal it to the nose so the fog light hole can feed air to the filter while keeping water off of it from the tire. I've driven it in rain a few times with no I'll effects. |
that's real neat looking, nice job
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Im pretty sensitive to whats going on with my car. If I drive to a 1000 ft different elevation, its only a difference of 4whp, but it feels significant. (General rule of thumb is 3% difference per 1000 feet)
thats why i know ill be happy (if i gain any power with this intake) because i can feel it baybeee! |
Anyone know how resonance/harmonics work?
If I maintain the same ratio of volumes (total effective intake volume to resonating chamber volume) will the Helmholtz effect be preserved in the new intake? What I'm planning to do is seal up the oem intake, and completely fill it with water (with the resonator removed?) to get the volume, then do the same with the resonating chamber. This ratio will be used to solve for X, X being the volume of the new resonating chamber on the new intake. (I'll first need to find out what volume my 19-21inch intake will be) |
resonant frequency is:
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...d050616eb3.png So you're messing with l and V, so you should be okay. Realize you are working under a square root. Idk how it relates to intake, but I had a lecture on it like 2 months ago. |
Oh, so it doesn't matter what volume the intake is, I just make sure the new chamber has the same resonant frequency as the oem one. Seems easiest to just use the oem resonating chamber somehow.
Any ideas on how to affix it permanently onto an aluminum 2.5" tube? |
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^doesn't seem that vibration resistant, I just sent an inquiry to MasterBond, to see what they recommend in a high vibration, underhood application between plastic and aluminum.
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