Interchangeable parts? BP Motors NA/NB
 

I've been refreshing a 99 motor and I keep running into small discrepancies. If I look up parts from the dealer or any auto part stores I find them to be different from year to year. A good example would be rings. If i go to rock auto and search for rings for a 94 It lists 4 different options for standard sized rings. If I look up a 99 it shows 1 option. Same goes for oil pumps. When I had the dealer look up some parts like said piston rings they had 2 different prices. The part number for the one set of rings for the 99 matched a set of rings for the 94.

Using common sense I've been able to order the correct parts. I have been screwed enough times by morons grabbing ---- off the shelf and not checking the box to the point where i'm actually quite paranoid and skeptical every time I order or buy anything.

So when rebuilding a bottom end is there anything notably different between the BP motors? The only thing i have left to buy is my oil pump and possibly some new arp studs/caps.

I have a 2560 and don't really plan on being over the 250hp 200ish tq mark. I don't have the money for forged rods, pistons, boundry oilpump.

Anyone have a recommendation on where to get a decent oil pump? It's tempting to buy this Oil Pump but the price scares me and I have never heard of the brand. Also do i need to replace the factory head bolts? I think i read somewhere on here that they are known to break when re tightened. Also do i need to replace the studs/nuts on the rods? Any recommendations as what to use? I don't have much money left for this build so i'm trying to hang on to every last dollar I can without making the build any less reliable.

Why not use the BP oil pump that came with your motor?


The rings should be compatible, year-to-year, but I would still choose the ones mazda specs for your year motor. The BP remained almost unchanged from 1994-2005. All the heads/bottom ends are compatible. I don't see why any other parts would not be compatible.



Remember, you are building a motor. Better to let it sit on the engine stand a little longer while saving for the parts you need, than jump the gun an instal a ticking time bomb. That being said; a 100% stock BP4W could meet you power goals, so why is the motor apart in the first place?

uh

yeah.

what are you doing??? why take apart and rebuild motor with factory parts?

so much fail.

It's apart for 2 reasons.

1) it is from a salvaged Miata (origin unknown).
2) it failed leakdown.

The leak down failure i believe to have been from the head but while I had the head off and motor out figured i may as well make sure nothing else was wrong.

I suppose I could save up and put some forged internals in it but I figured stock would meet my power goals anyway. I cracked a ring on my 1.6 and I figured it was a perfect time to upgrade.

I do feel like I should at least put some china rods in but do I really need to at my power goal? After 250whp aren't there a bunch of issues like oil pump, transmission, traction, not to mention my clutch is only good to about 220-230tq. I have never tracked the car. I still need some other things like a new front sway bar, roll bar, body work, paint, new radiator.

I figured by the time i had all that other stuff taken care of i'd be ready for a new bottom end.

thoughts?

Id don't know if you're a man or woman, but us men get addicted to torque after the 1st drive and want more. So yeah, always overbuild for your goals.

as far as rings I have no clue about the differences but i can tell you in 94 there were 4 BP motors in 4 different model cars, in 99 theres only one.

94:
protege LX
protege DX (single cam version)
escort GT
miata

99:
miata

I was driving a 1.6 so :dunno: men drive miatas? you must be a fag.

I would but that seems kind of frowned upon and generally bad practice. anyone else have an opinion on this?

Yes, they do. Ask your husband.

I haven't met him yet. Maybe one day @ a miata meet..

People like you should be exterminated.

You are a bad person.

How can you not build your motor while it is opened up?

This seriously hurts my feelings.

would it make you feel better if i put some china rods in?
trust me i want to build it too. i'm having a tough time justifying it though since my power goals are obtainable on stock :-/

250whp/230wtq on a Mustang Dyno or you will be banned. 10lb/hp or you cannot post here.

Your power goals suck.

You will lose to a stock CAMARO. You will lose to a V6 mustang. You will lose to a WRX with an exhaust.

Losing sucks. Especially after you spent all this time building your motor and some stock motored fool with bolt ons rapes your baby.

Trust me. I have gone 250, ~350-400, and 500+++??? hp. Enough is never enough.

It is good to at least have the choice of more power for a measely $1000 extra

china rods
supertech pistons
billet oil pump

300-400HP is WAYYYYYYY more fun than 250.

Is that supposed to be my justification? BUT I CANT LIVE WITHOUT GAY AND CATS!!!

and yet you made fun of me for having "only" 300:giggle:

Super STOCK STOCK STOCK

2012 mustang GT is under 9lb/hp. to the wheels

Lol

There are two specifications for the oil pump. The fit to them both is identical, and you can switch them back and forth and have 100% correct function.

However;

The factory 01+ (and later, the 99-00 engine parts were superceded to the 01+ part for replacement purposes) oil pump housing and gears are 20 thousandths of an inch thicker than the factory replacement NA pumps. This means that the 99+ pumps will have (in theory) about a 1% increase in oil flow.

The stock bottom end is perfectly capable of handling 250rwhp, but consider the "engineers viewpoint" on that - at 250rwhp, you are at or above 90% of the physical limitations of the parts. The only time an engineer would ever design an engine to operate at 90% of its physical ability would be if the engine was designed with a very short lifespan - Example: racing applications where the engine is expected to be rebuilt after only a few races.

And then, the only reason to build an engine so that it runs at 90% is because you've decreased the weight (and as a side effect, the strength) of critical parts such as connecting rods/pistons/springs/valves/etc.

Just food for thought.

china rods ordered. I talked the guy down to $190 from 251. I feel pretty good about that.
working on some supertechs.

I already have a felpro head gasket. I have read some people raving about how terrible they are and others saying they are fine. if i grab some supertechs .5 overbore 8.6:1 is it a big deal if i just use that gasket or should i go with a cometic?

1.8 MLS or the felpro equivalent works great

You have been saved and eternal glory awaits.

I love you.

Now I have to drive my block back down to the machine shop in B.F.E. thanks.

That slope that everyone says is slippery. I just rolled my ass down it.

Well now that I've taken the plunge... Billet, supertechs, hbeam rods... I have another question. I've read on this before but all the threads with anything about this subject seem to kind of fade off without resolution. The general consensus is ACL but I've seen people mention clevite just have never heard an opinion on them or a testimony.

Bearings. I already have all new clevite bearings. When I do get to the upper boost levels are these going to be good enough to handle some nice power? I don't want my bearings to be my limiting factor on power here after i just upgraded my rods and pistons.

Clevite/Perfect Circle - Apparently these bearings are AL-3 I'm guessing some kind of aluminum blend...

MS1802AL - Main
TW472S - Thrust
CB1453AL - Connecting

I run stock mazda bearings and in theory, I make as much or more power than any other BP motor on this forum.

Maybe this means something good, maybe not.

in theory

I can ship you ACLs on Monday morning. They're the only thing we use.

I need me some of them there China rods too. Where did you get them at that price?
Any news on the Supertechs / price?

got the rods today. they all measured well and look to be of good quality. they were all really close in weight. they have the standard c.a.t. part number printed on them.

I ordered my supertechs and acl race bearings as well as arp head and main bolts. Since i'm so over budget I have been trying to penny pinch 5 here and there. I've saved about $175 between the rods, pistons, rings, arp bolts, bearings.

I asked what it would cost to have my motor rebuilt at a few shops and they all told me between 2k to 3k. Including the motor (bought a used one 99) I should be finishing the build around $2500 with it being mostly built. I say mostly because I only had a valve job done to the head. Nothing fancy. That includes all machine work and a flying miata 1.6 to 1.8 kit. So for about the same price + some of my time (which I have an abundance on depending on the week) it was def worth doing myself. For anyone that reads this if you do a real refresh and new rings, fresh hone, stock bearings, gaskets, oil pump, water pump, timing belt, pulley's, motor mounts, etc... you should expect to spend $800-$100 especially if you have a valve job done. If you just plan on patching something together then don't bother going in. just buy a used motor or even one of those japan motors shipped for 700-800 bucks and call it a day. I only mention this because it seems like every other day i see a "i'm broke and need to rebuild" thread. not that someone will actually search and find this.... anyway.

for anyone reading this and looking for acl racee bearings. Just buy them from sav and save yourself the trouble. they massively slowed production on them and are seriously ridiculous to track down. particularly the rod bearings. in the end i only saved like 20 bucks on the bearings and i spent a whole day calling every vendor verifying stock since nobody knows how to take a product off their site if it's not in stock. I'll make a build thread eventually. Also someone correct me if i'm wrong but basically ACL is the only company making the high performance bearings. EVERYTHING else is aluminum based. Unless you can somehow track down some celvite 77 "P" series that have been discontinued forever.

Basically just open your wallet and thank sav for saving your time and mind.

I've been looking all over the place for this and cant find anything. Is the top part of the 99-00 intake manifold same as the +01 manifolds? Visually it looks the same but i cant find a single pic of the insides. Bloody searches aren't showing any info nor have i found any pics of the 2 parts split up. Any one want to trade a gutted upper vics part?

No they can not be mixed/matched.

I have a port matched 01+ lower FS.

I need a 99-00 upper part :(