Originally Posted by Godless Commie
(Post 1503202)
I did all that.
I removed the factory installed oil gallery plugs and installed removable, threaded plugs instead. That way, I am able to clean everything inside and out. |
So I dropped everything at the machine shop today. And by everything, I mean the block, crank, pistons, rods and existing bearings. Short block.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...2ffa7afc92.jpg https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...b312141484.jpg They gave me the good news, rod bushings are available, they had them in stock. But, piston skirts are scuffed, so are the cylinder walls, and a hone is in order. The machinist refuses to use existing rings in newly honed cylinders, so he will try to source a new set. Apparently, they are made to order around here. They are practically new, but I will leave that decision to him. I learned an interesting tidbit about bearings.. Apparently, "Taiho" is the bearing manufacturer for almost all Japanese automakers, and they have a distributor over here... I have a friend who owns a parts business, and he sourced a set of "Made in Japan" + 0.25 mm main and rod bearings for a killer price ($30) He gives me parts at cost, or with very minimal markup, he's pretty cool that way. So, I will essentially be going with OEM bearings this time around. All the machine work, including line-bore checking will take about a week, which will give me time to do some cleaning and also focus on the active hood vent project I had suspended since this noise issue started. |
Originally Posted by Godless Commie
(Post 1502920)
Could this have anything to do with the deleted oil jets? I had to delete them after a long discussion here on this forum after the engine started consuming excessive oil - roughly 1 liter every 120 miles or so. Deleting the jets cured the oil consumption problem. |
Originally Posted by Godless Commie
(Post 1503251)
Just a thought:
Could this have anything to do with the deleted oil jets? I had to delete them after a long discussion here on this forum after the engine started consuming excessive oil - roughly 1 liter every 120 miles or so. Deleting the jets cured the oil consumption problem. |
I'm sorry I did not take any close up pics of the bushing, but it really did not have any signs of oil starvation, just excessive play.
I must be the first one ever to have such a problem with M-Tuned rods... Could this possibly be a consequence of the belt driven supercharger with added stress and harmonics on the engine internals? |
The real question here is, are you really a godless commie? in all seriousness, I bought my M-tuned rods on the first group buy and never had an issue... 40k hard miles on the engine. |
Originally Posted by Stealth97
(Post 1503261)
The real question here is, are you really a godless commie? I was called a Godless Commie as an insult once, and I really liked it, and adopted it as my username in all the internets. |
Originally Posted by Godless Commie
(Post 1503249)
The machinist refuses to use existing rings in newly honed cylinders, so he will try to source a new set. Apparently, they are made to order around here.
They are practically new, but I will leave that decision to him. |
Rings only break-in once. He's right to exchange for new. Especially on a forced induction build. Even if reusing pistons you replace the rings when the pistons are removed. They wear into specific patterns of micro-grooves. It's almost like fingerprints in that every one is unique.
This isn't to say that the engine won't run on used rings because it will, but they don't ever work like new again. You don't want the extra blow-by on a freshly rebuilt engine for a few dollars difference. |
Originally Posted by Godless Commie
(Post 1503251)
Just a thought:
Could this have anything to do with the deleted oil jets? I had to delete them after a long discussion here on this forum after the engine started consuming excessive oil - roughly 1 liter every 120 miles or so. Deleting the jets cured the oil consumption problem. |
I need your input in an important matter...
We can not get exact size rings for these pistons locally. The problem is the top ring; it's supposed to be 1 mm thick, and we can only source 1.2 mm rings. The machinist tells me they can machine the top ring grooves to accept the 1.2 mm rings. I am kinda hesitant, but I will give him the OK if you guys do not see a problem with this. The rest of the rings are fine, meaning, they will be exact fit. They will be made to order, and they have a warranty. What do you think? @Savington, what do you think? |
Hard pass
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Originally Posted by Savington
(Post 1503353)
Hard pass
Incidentally, I just got off the phone with JE tech support, and they told me to go for it by all means.. Sigh. |
I wouldn’t be afraid of thicker rings on a boosted engine either.. |
Originally Posted by andyfloyd
(Post 1502430)
Im sure someone like Andrew could tell you likely what the sound is since he has built a ton of engines.
Originally Posted by Godless Commie
(Post 1502446)
The more I think about it, the more it sounds like a wrist pin to me.
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Originally Posted by Godless Commie
(Post 1503356)
Does that mean no?
Incidentally, I just got off the phone with JE tech support, and they told me to go for it by all means.. Sigh. |
I'd be really nervous because this is something that I've never even heard of prior to this thread, and if it goes wrong you're totally screwed and have to re-do everything
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Originally Posted by Savington
(Post 1503370)
If your piston MFG told you it's OK, then go with that. Make sure you ask them which side should have material removed (top or bottom). Ringland thickness is one of the more important aspects of piston design, so mucking with it without express approval from the piston MFG is a dangerous game.
They will remove equal amounts from both sides. I was told 0.1 mm from either side will not compromise the structural integrity of the pistons. Apparently, this is more common practice than I would have guessed around here. They do it on all sorts of pistons, forged or not, to install custom rings. There are some specialist shops making all sorts of custom parts for race engines. One more question: Crankshaft is being ground 0.25 mm. I know 0.25 mm does not go deep enough to remove the surface hardening on the crank. Do you guys think I need to take it in to get it surface hardened anyway, or will I be opening a can of worms with such a move? |
Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 1503373)
I'd be really nervous because this is something that I've never even heard of prior to this thread, and if it goes wrong you're totally screwed and have to re-do everything
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Machining the piston for a larger ring is done in the automotive industry, although typically on large pistons that are not cheap to replace. It's possible it is done in areas where parts aren't available, but you can't put material back if it goes wrong. Sav hit one of the key aspects, in that it could possibly weaken the piston, I'm not sure how sensitive the piston is though. The second thing, is that the tolerances in the ring grooves are very important to performance. For instance, if the clearances are too tight, the piston could pinch the ring and cause a scuff. Too loose has been linked to ring breakage in the long term. I'm not saying they can't do it, but it makes me a little nervous. FYI, I design pistons and rings for a living.
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