NB->Turbo Or MSM
 

Okay well im searching for a miata that i like. Ive gone through numerous threads and such on 6 speed and 5 speed......I want to know what is the advantage to buying the MSM? Would there be any difference if i were to turbo a 99'-02' NB, Power wise? Also is there a difference between the two engines or are they the same 1.8l motors? Furthermore, How does a miata hold up to boost on aftermarket applications(low boost 12lbs and under). I come from a Specv backround and having a 6 speed and around 300hp is just kinda annoying. I would like to retain driveability. But yea just wanted to know if i would have the samething with an aftermarket setup. Thanks

I will give you great advise: its called "search"...

It has been covered before many times since I joined, and probably 10x more before that.

simple answer from what I've gathered is there is no big difference in the engine's...both take to low boost well, so the difference basically comes down to all the other stuff on the msm that is different..

99-00 didn't have VVT (Variable Valve Timing) which can out in 01. I'm not sure what size turbo the MSM uses, but I know the intercooler is TINY. You can pick up a stock 99-02 for cheaper than a MSM, turbo it, make more power, and still be cheaper. There are many upgrades for the MSM though, you gotta know what you want. Either you want to turbo a stock car, which I recommend, cause you'll learn way more than you can imagine. OR you can avoid the hastle, buy a MSM, bolt on simple stuff and be done. Reason myself and a lot of people turbo their stock cars is cause you can buy a MSM and have another MSM just like the next guy, or you can have a 1 of a kind setup that stands alone. Plus I believe you gain more respect when you can pop your hood and say, "I fabricated those pipes, I wired up that harness, etc."

Cost for cost a boosted 99-01 will be faster.

Msms are still badass though.

Search some.

what the fuck are you doing posting in this forum. Go to the queer section, ------.

+1 Best post ever on mt.net. Summed everything up perfectly!

MSM stock:
+/-145whp
little bit better suspension than regular Miata
body kit
17" heavy as hell wheels
6spd has shot-peened gears, regular 6-spd is not, 3.9 final drive
Owners say stock intercooler heatsoaks quick.
Owners say clutch is good for 250whp.
Decent stock cars w/low mile= $15k.

MSM mods:
Check the Flyin Miata and Bell website for their MSM upgrades
Flyin' Miata : Engine/Drivetrain : Upgrades for Mazdaspeed
- BEGi

Around $2k will get you into the 200whp (perhaps a bit more) range buying production parts and keeping the entire stock fuel system... but can DIY for a lot less for that power.

FM sells their "Big Enchilada" package for $3600 which includes the Hydra and injectors. Hydra is the only domectically available ECU that is PnP and will control VVT and all the other NB funkiness.

Above 220-230whp, you're gonna be interested in another turbo... which also means another manifold unless you can find somebody modifying the stock MSM turbos. New Garrett GT25xx+manifold=$1200-1500.

Xede is a great PnP product that will take you right up to the limits of the stock turbo/mani but there aren't that many guys running over 250-260whp on any setup with Xede. It's a piggyback that works side-by-side with the stock ECU and lets it control the VVT and other mundane functions.

In the end, if you're looking at 250+whp, you're gonna end up spending the same amount of money on aftermarket parts as turbo'ing a regular Miata because the entire stock MSM turbo system and the ECU won't support that much power.

So, assuming you were shooting for 250whp and were happy with the stock MSM suspension/bodykit/tranny... you're in for $14k-$15k for the car, plus $5k for turbo... we'll call it $20k.

Now, $20k spent another way.

Stock low mileage '01... $8k
FMII w/GT2560: $5k =good for 300whp
6UL's+RS2's: $1000 =traction for 300whp
3"Enthuza: $900 =flow for 300whp
Hard Dog: $500 =safety for 300whp
Wilwood's: $1500 =stop 300whp
Tein/GC/Koni,etc: $1500 =handle 300whp
3.6 R&P: $600 =get 1st gear back and run 1/4 mile in 4th
ACT XT + 2 spare 5spd's =$1000
Total: $20k =go twice as fast as MSM for same price.

The MSM is what it is. There are pro's and con's and the car certainly isn't for everybody, but for some people it's perfect. If you'd like to hear MSM owners tell you why you should buy an MSM, then visit Mazda-speed.com - Index Their main argument is the "unreliability" of aftermarket turbo kits and the awesome "potential" of the MSM for making power if you have a spare $5k in cash.
Most people here are very DIY oriented and would rather drive over their own dick than buy one though.

Sam, there are a lot of "little" differences in the MSM. Just saying that for clarity. I think they have the MBSP in the bottom end for example. Lower compression then any 99+ regular miata. Also, MSM's don't have VVT, they have a 99' head, but better valve springs and a more agressive intake camshaft, and different cam gear specific to MSM's. Lots of little differences.

But I agree with your accesment for the most part.

Crap, sorry about the VVT. And yes, there are quite a few little things. Those little things always come up in the "Can I put a MSM motor in my regular Miata?" and everybody repeats all the little things but also says "none of those things make anything more than a miniscule difference in any aspect of performance even when you add them all up so you should just turbo the motor that's in the car."

Thanks Samnavy and everyone else, just trying to get a feel for what is what.

Thanks man your awsome!!

Most people here are very DIY oriented and would rather drive over their own dick than buy one though.[/QUOTE]

Loved that part, ha ha!!