Originally Posted by ZX-Tex
(Post 684164)
The fuel you are burning is probably not going to make that noise go away. It is just noise from the engine mechanical components, most of it from the lifters IIRC. It is not 'knock' but engine noise that a knock sensor can mistake for knock.
Everyone else, why don't you just go back to sucking dicks. |
Originally Posted by ZX-Tex
(Post 684164)
It is not 'knock' but engine noise that a crappy knock sensor can mistake for knock.
Originally Posted by Faeflora
(Post 684190)
Everyone else, why don't you just go back to sucking dicks.
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Originally Posted by Savington
(Post 684222)
FTFY. If you have noise problems through 4500-5500, the solution is frequency/RPM based filtration, not ignoring the damn sensor.
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I believe one of the planned features of the next full number release of the megasquirt 3 firmware is the ability to window and bandpass the knock input. I'm not sure what the plans are for sensitivity versus RPM curves, but the windowing and filtering alone should make a significant difference compared to a simple noise threshold.
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I know on my evo8 and early evos the knock sensor was to sensitive. The tuner that tuned my car in some cases would change values to "de-sensitize" the knock sensor. Can that not be done in this case?
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It is literally what they just talked about in the posts before yours
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Eventually it won't matter as much as companies will develop spark plug associated pressure tranducers that will allow direct detection of the pressure spikes associated with knock not just the vibrations. I think NGK is working on this but I don't know what the time frame for commercial introduction is(edit they have a picture on their website that says in development). But for now filters and signal processing are all that is available.
If you are really worried about this buy a more sophisticated knock detection system like Phormula or Gizzmo Kmon or sometehing like that. |
Knock sensing spark plugs? hot damn I haven't heard of that yet lol.
And sav you keep referring to the stock NB knock sensor as crap, what do you suggest is NOT crap for our cars and what are you using on your race car? IIRC you're using the same stock sensor that we are. more sophisticated knock detection system like Phormula or Gizzmo Kmon or sometehing like that I'm curious how it compares to the stocker. Feedback from someone using them would be great. |
Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 685811)
Knock sensing spark plugs? hot damn I haven't heard of that yet lol.
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Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 685811)
Do you know of anyone on here (or anyone with a turbo miata for that matter) using something like this?
I'm curious how it compares to the stocker. Feedback from someone using them would be great. |
Originally Posted by ZX-Tex
(Post 685819)
I know someone (not at NGK) who is working on it. It is a completely different way of sensing knock; it is pretty cool. I am not sure how much I can repeat (proprietary) so I will keep my mouth shut on the details. But if you google it I'll bet something will turn up. AFAIK it is still developmental technology and is not mainstream yet.
http://www.optrand.com/products.htm this is the NGK picture which indicates it is probably similar to the optrand products http://www.ngkntk.co.jp/english/prod...thers/gps.html there is a company that I know of that has taken these sensors and made commercial packages for test bench(read professional dyno) or in car set ups http://www.tfxengine.com/. This would be the ultimate knock detection setup |
I did not mean the pressure sensors, though that works too. I meant something more like this (from Delphi):
http://delphi.com/manufacturers/auto...gnsys/ionized/ Ion Sense knock detection eliminates vibration-based knock sensors for lower system cost and improved knock sensitivity and detection. Knock detection is robust to valve train and other mechanical noises. Looks like it is more mainstream than I thought. |
Originally Posted by ZX-Tex
(Post 685909)
I did not mean the pressure sensors, though that works too. I meant something more like this (from Delphi):
http://delphi.com/manufacturers/auto...gnsys/ionized/ Ion Sense knock detection eliminates vibration-based knock sensors for lower system cost and improved knock sensitivity and detection. Knock detection is robust to valve train and other mechanical noises. Looks like it is more mainstream than I thought. Very cool in any case. |
Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 685811)
And sav you keep referring to the stock NB knock sensor as crap, what do you suggest is NOT crap for our cars and what are you using on your race car? IIRC you're using the same stock sensor that we are.
For all the swooning done over MS3, I kind of assumed it had good knock control - really sad to hear they still haven't done it. The new AEM boxes combine the RPM filtering they had before with on-board user-adjustable frequency filtering. Super bitchin'. |
Originally Posted by Savington
(Post 686316)
Saturn sensor with on-board frequency filtering (thanks J_Man for the setup info), connected to an AEM with RPM and timing window filtering.
For all the swooning done over MS3, I kind of assumed it had good knock control - really sad to hear they still haven't done it. The new AEM boxes combine the RPM filtering they had before with on-board user-adjustable frequency filtering. Super bitchin'. Knock windowing (unsure on freq based filters) is due for 2.0 along with 4-cam VVT and who knows what else. But you're right. As of this moment, it essentially has zero knock control beyond "some box says there is knock so I will do X". |
Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 685785)
It is literally what they just talked about in the posts before yours
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no worries. I'm kinda sad that the ms2 doesn't have windowed/filtered knock sensing.
that's so far the 1st thing since switching from the adaptronic that I don't like about it. |
18psi sorry for grave digging but why did you decide to go from adaptronic to ms2?
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is this natural knock sound something thats more common with the 99+ motors?
my 1.6 is smooth through out the whole power band. |
Originally Posted by triple88a
(Post 710299)
18psi sorry for grave digging but why did you decide to go from adaptronic to ms2?
fully pnp (didn't require a big ass adapter harness) internal map sensor easier to set up better startup better idle overall much easier to work with and user friendly tons and tons of info and writeups and faq's MUCH more user support. Travis was great and helped us a ton, but when there was something he didnt know, we were pretty much fucked. had to figure it out on our own. few other reasons, all of which were minor, but all that shit added up and I got tired of it. decided to try the diypnp and LOVE it.
Originally Posted by railz
(Post 710306)
is this natural knock sound something thats more common with the 99+ motors?
my 1.6 is smooth through out the whole power band. |
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