New Stage 2 Boundary Oil Pump - Rough Shape
 

So I just got a new Boundary Stage 2 pump in the mail. It came in a bubble wrapper and nothing else, and it looks rough as hell. See the photos. Is this thing going to work or am I just asking for leaks if I install it? I've been waiting for a Boundary pump for weeks now, even upgraded to the Stage 2 in order to get it here quicker, but for $400 I wasn't expecting this. Also, when Boundary says "Billet", I guess they're just referring to the internals?

Take a look at the photos and share your opinion. Would you install this pump in your $5k engine rebuild?

No. I'd ask for a refund and a new one.

Where did you purchase it from? (although by the shape it's in I'm sure I already know the answer)

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Billet refers only to the gears inside it. Not sure where exactly the source the pump bodies from.

Billet gears in a re-manufactured stock housing from my understanding.

Looks like they threw it down a driveway prior to packing, I'd get a replacement.

Pump bodies are supposed to be new mazda.

Fab9. Not wanting to throw them under the bus just yet though.

And to the surprise of no one....

No gaskets came with it or anything either. Normal?

What the fuck.

So I got hosed, and here I am trying to get this thing back together in time for the Mitty in April. Do the Boundary pumps normally come with gaskets? Does the pump normally come in a damn box at least?

I forget who I ordered my VVT BE pump from. It came with the circle gasket, and a nice wax sealed letter from Travis. I thought it was pretty fancy.

This presentation is par for the course when ordering from them.

My S2 throttle body came with a few ripped up pieces of the original Skunk box thrown inside a USPS shipping sack - zero structure to protect the unit in shipping. The BE pumps should come in a box with an inspection sheet and some other literature.

GL working with Fab to sort it. Communication was painful.

I chuckled when I read Fab9. I'm sorry for your loss.

With these threads, it always seems to come down to: "Okay, Fab9 or BEGi? Oh, he actually received parts? Fab9 then."

and no fucking o ring. I hear alot of people having this same experience.

No they don't.

I have a VVT pump from the same vendor and it arrived exactly like the BE web site said it would, "heat sealed in a plastic bag to prevent contamination". It's still unopened but looking through the plastic the mating surface has the usual edge "chipping" you find normally. The only other part included is the o-ring inside the sealed bag.

If you like, I can snap a picture of what mine looks like as received.

I looked up my records and I got my BE VVT pump from Fab9 in 2015, it came with the o-ring, and the wax sealed letter.

I got mine from FAB9 in Jan 2017.

Yeah that'd be helpful, thanks, and thanks all for the responses. I wonder if I can file down the high points on the mating surfaces and use paper gaskets along with "Right Stuff" and get good seals.

I think the pump is still useable with some clean up but I would deff be looking for a partial refund.... The O-ring does 99% of the sealing the other surfaces just use RTV anyway.

I ordered my stage 1 pump from Fab9 and it came in a box. But I got a few other items in the same order.

I have no doubt you could get that pump to work after some filing and getting an o-ring, but it's bullshit that you have to do that.

Personally, I'd contact Bryan @ FAB9 and get a replacement sent NDA if that's the way you got it.

Here's pics of mine still sealed in the bag. I'll point out the third picture I zoomed in a bit to show you the edge burr from the milling process. I can't say it's indicative of Boundary Engineering and any "touch up" of the mating surface but it's be highly unusual for the OEM to let that go.

I'll deburr it when I unseal it and as it's on an outside edge it wouldn't impact performance but it isn't something FAB9 would have impact on. It's also very likely that the pump was shipped to me by a wholesaler and not FAB9 itself.

If you decide to surface it yourself, make sure you take care to plug the crank bore and any other ports to keep any aluminum chips out of the pump or you won't like what happens.


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...3c79ab7b6.jpeg

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...9e0849eca.jpeg

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...3c00c8913.jpeg

Yup, that looks similar to mine, thought I've got plenty on the inside edges as well. Thanks for taking the time to send.

To clarify, my pump did come with the O-ring already installed but no other gaskets for the mating surfaces, and from what I'm reading here that's not unusual. Any thoughts on picking up a paper gasket from Autozone or elsewhere and using with this? I'd feel better about the sealing ability of this jagged thing with a gasket.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...db0b1e65b2.jpg

bro, thats not the O ring. That's the crankshaft seal.

this the o ring. (taken from my build thread)

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...8d3fc135de.jpg

Dammit, showing my ignorance again. And no, it didn't come with that. Thanks for the clarification. .

OP was your pump sealed in a bag when you got it? If not.... It may have been a return from another customer that wasnt checked when it was received.

Was NOT sealed in a bag.

Incidentally, I just became a "proud supporter" as a result of this thread, and all the good info I've gotten from this site during this rebuild. Can't get this kinda help anywhere else.

I'm beating my own thread to death now but I should include this by way of follow up: I just got a call from Bryan at Fab9 in response to an email I sent an hour ago. He offered to take the pump back and ship another ASAP, or refund my $. He told me that because Boundary is pounding these out so quickly in response to demand, they aren't shipping them with paperwork. He got the SN from the pump from me and is having Boundary email me the pump's specs & documentation. He also told me that Boundary isn't shipping them with O-rings anymore because builders are sourcing their own most of the time anyway. As for the quality of the shipping itself, he owned it, offered to refund or replace. I opted to hang on to this one.

The best piece of advice I'll give you is to call FAB9 directly and talk to Bryan himself to get resolved.

It's possible to take out the high spots with a stone but at that point you're taking on the responsibility for it working or not. Get some dykem so when you stone it you don't take anymore off than you need. And remember to plug up everything.

There needs to be a sticky for DO NOT PURCHASE ANYTHING FROM FAB9 so shit like this doesn't keep happening to us.

Why anyone would buy anything from Fab9 boggles my mind. Good luck OP.

I guess I'm in the minority where everything I've ordered from Fab9 has been fine. Shipped in a few days, got exactly what I ordered, no damage.
I do see threads like this pretty often though. I think Fab9 could use some forum presence to sort out this kind of thing.

The first time I ordered from them it was because 1) They had it in stock and said they could ship it that day, and 2) Prices were good. That first order went just as promised, really quick arrival time, which makes sense since Fab9 is in MI, and I'm in redneck Alabama. With Trackspeed is in Cali and FM is in Colorado, shipping just takes a little bit longer. I've never ordered from BE.

Not such good luck this time with Fab9, and these posts don't encourage further experimentation with them.

From the factory, the oil pump is sealed to the block with silicone and without a gasket, at least in 95. I have always sealed it with just silicone, and never had a problem.

If it has a machined groove, around the block interface and an oring around the outlet, then it's made for rtv.

If it's faced flat, then it's old and should come with a gasket.

If I recall, all the newer pumps superceded the old ones and are rtv sealed. Vvt pumps are desirable for any application. Non vvt pumps are not desirable for vvt motors.

I've had the same experience and will continue to buy things from him as long as I get the service I expect. In 3yr I've had 1 instance where I ordered something and because of stock didn't get what I wanted but he contacted me up front and gave me another option.

I've also had good experience with other vendors here.

Just saw these post. I have not done any business with Fab 9 , so I have no complaints. I bought a stage 2 BE pump from a member on here a couple of weeks ago. It looks pretty much the same in some places. I just happened to talk to him today and asked if the pump had been used. He said no. It was still sealed in the bag, He is a long time member here and I believe him. I think this is just the way Boundary is shipping them right now.

90-93 pumps use a gasket, no o-ring IIRC. 94-05 pumps use RTV, no gasket, and an o-ring around the pressure outlet. As recently as 2 years ago, both types were available directly from Mazda.

I have ordered things from them 3 times, so far no problems. Always had fast shipping and great prices, never received anything damaged.

I gotta say if I sold oil pumps, I'd include the O-ring required to use it. To me that's like buying a water pump and it doesn't come with a gasket, which you have to have to change the water pump. Just makes it easier for the end user, and if they already had one well now they have a spare. What's an O-ring cost, pennies?

Here's how I handled it tonight: I filed down the high points on the mating surfaces carefully, found the O-ring that came with the FM gasket kit I bought from them, and got a paper gasket from Autozone. Used a little Right Stuff on both sides of the gasket and bolted everything up. I just feel better having a paper gasket in there with as bad as the surfaces seemed, and I can't imagine that being a problem, though I'll trust this group to point out the errors of my ways if so.

I've always used RTV, but my buddy did an oil pump change on his with a paper gasket, and had no problems with it. I wouldn't use a gasket but I doubt there is any harm in doing so. If I'm doing RTV on surfaces that are damaged, I usually put a thin film of RTV on by hand to fill in the damage, then a thin bead to squish, then bolt together.

I'd like to blatantly clarify each of the mishaps in this situation are completely unrelated to how we handled the order.

I immediately offered to take the pump back and send a replacement.

We've shipped HUNDREDS of these pumps and this season we've been VERY demanding on Travis at Boundary. He's simply unable to keep up with the high volumes we're selling. Our last order didn't include documentation and the pumps that arrived seem to have been handled poorly at some point (this could have very well happened in shipping but it wasn't something we noticed before now). I spoke with this customer on the phone and immediately clarified each of these topics after a quick conversation with Travis from BE.

Just a PSA from Travis - these pumps will no longer be including the oil o-ring. He said everyone who builds one of these engines purchases a front timing component kit and it's included in that gasket set. I don't know that I agree or disagree with that decision but I'm forwarding the news.

Cheers,
Bryan

To clarify another point that was brought up, the fact that it is or isn't in a sealed bag has nothing to do with it being a returned product. We shim the pumps in house, to order, due to the volume of pumps we ship. It would be nearly impossible to keep inventory in each shim arrangement on each pump version.

We typically don't take returns on these pumps, if that happens - they need to go back to Boundary before it's approved.

Yes, this is what I said about Fab's response. I was sticking up for you bro. Also I think your use of the word "blatantly" is misplaced. :)

Padded envelopes are fine for soft goods. But oil pumps really should be shipped in a proper corrugated cardboard box with appropriate packing materials inside to protect it from harm during transit.

FWIW... When I bought my pump (BE stage2 +1 shim) from Fab9 it came with the wax sealed letter, o-ring and pump sealed in a plastic bag and was inside a cardboard box. Looked brand new :2cents:

For OP's pump, I'd run it :dunno: As long as the mating surface looks good. I broke in my motor with amsoil. No issues mechanically thus far.

Amen

Yes, I think the sealed envelope is new practice but we've been selling them faster than he can produce so I'm sure it was a measure that was skipped for purposes of filling orders quickly. It was a beautiful touch but one thats quickly discarded.

Also, this damage is happening before the pump arrives here. During the phone call from OP I realized our inventory looked to be in the same condition. Haste didn't pay off here.

OP thank you for clarifying, I only briefly skipped through the thread and wanted to make sure it had been said. Thank you for being such a stand up guy.

Out of curiosity, I lifted the box seal on a couple of the pumps in my most recent BE shipment (received ~2wks ago). I only stock/use their VVT-body Stage 2 pump with a single shim. The pump ships in a white box with a Boundary sticker seal, and the pump itself is in a separate sealed bag. Paperwork is included in the box. Both of the pumps I pulled from stock had an o-ring in the sealed bag as well.

Given statements made in this thread, I felt that information was worth disseminating.

Wonder if things have changed recently then. The pump I received from you was just in a brown box and a sealed bag. No letter. I haven't taken it out yet.

That being said I sent travis my serial number and received the spec sheet in an email for my records.

Your pump was from my last batch, my latest batch is in different packaging. I thought the oil pump o-ring detail was of particular note.

Makes sense. Mine was purchased in September 2016.

Hello Everyone,

Just wanted to cover a few things on our pumps.

Our pumps are shipped in boxes unless vendors request otherwise. Sometimes vendors have international orders and they don't want to package the rather bulky box in yet another box. It is understandable, but it is our preference that our products come in our own boxes to keep all pieces together. Since this has become an issue, we are going work with our vendors to insure future shipments are being made in OEM packaging for the protection of the product.

Seals\Letters enclosing the certification paperwork - We have suspended putting these in during this rush season. Because the sealed letters are real, it can take about a man day to make 100, which is about how many pumps that leaves us in any given week. We can't spare the labor right now for the sake of producing a high quality pump and getting it out the door as fast as possible. I want to go back to the way we were doing it, and I will get there.

O-rings - Every kit should come with an O-ring. I believe some of these aren't making it into the bags on our side. We will start packaging these separate and putting them on the packing slips to make sure.

Most of all though, I appreciate everyone's support, my company could have never grown without the support of Andrew, Bryan, Emilio, and this community. If you think you have received a product that is less then what it should of been, please let me know, I will make it right! One more thing, if you need a pump please support your Miata Turbo sponsored vendors. They are all great people and great business!

I suspect your packaging is like I showed in post #23 which also shows the oring in the "sealed" bag. I got it from the other vendor in 4qtr 2016.