Oil cooler project. Was: Oil cooler fitting woes
 

Got this stuff today to replace the cooler end of my oil cooler setup.
Attachment 194049
I'm not sure if this video will work, but I'll give it a shot. This is with the collar threaded all the way in.
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/e...IMG_0410-1.jpg
It looks like this, so I thought it was working right, but the collar threads all the way on by hand, and then obviously pulls right off.
Attachment 194050
Attachment 194051
Pretty sure I'm installing it right, but I haven't done one of these fittings for years, since I did my oil drain. Am I missing something? Is the hose the wrong size? Or is the reason I'm replacing the ends (cheap leaking Chinese crap) going to make these fittings not work?

That looks exactly like an ebay kit someone asked me to install for them a few years back. The lines exploded instantly. We replaced the lines with quality ones and the fittings blew off the oil cooler.
Your cooler may be constructed better, but I would not even use that line on any car.

The cooler is now this one:
http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/p...ol_Oil_Coolers
With the lower end (yet quality) Mocal fittings from racerpartswholesale.com Very please with all the stuff I got from them, and not worried about it.

The lines, old cooler, fittings, and sandwich plate are all from a $160 CXracing Ebay kit, as you said. It's held up great, no exploding lines, although one of the fittings at the oil cooler started leaking about a month or two ago. Hence the replacement, which I was hoping to splice into the current lines.

As is, it looks like I'll be spending another $80 at Summitracing.com to replace the hose, the 90* fittings on the other end, and 1/2NPT->-8AN adapters for the sandwich plate. In order to get the thing tightened and sealed properly, I had to remove the motor last time (had to reseal the oil pan anyways). This time, I'll most likely have to drain the coolant and remove the head. So my $135 fix just turned in to roughly $235 and two or three times the labor. Awesome.

Anyone know a place online where 10' of -8 stainless steel hose, 2 -8AN 90* fittings, and 2 1/2"NPT->-8AN adapters comes out to less than $75 before shipping?

summitracing.com

Oops, forgot to say that's where I'm getting the $75 quote. I did RPW because they had the good oil cooler choices, but for just the NPT->AN adapters, 90* hose ends, and 10' of -8 hose Summit is cheaper.

I'm honestly a little on the fence. Sounds dumb but there's a local guy with a running 1985 Honda Aero 50 for $80. I could buy both, or take my sandwich plate out and hold this oil cooler project for later. Not like I need it in the winter anyways. Or I could ignore the scooter. But that sounds like more fun. I'm honestly not going to notice the difference in oil coolers. I will notice the difference between a Miata and a scooter.

Check and see if there is a local hose supply or hydraulics shop or something near by. Those kinds of places are where I've always found the best deals for SS lines. And they generally build the lines for you so the ends are machine crimped.

Curly, did you cut the line? Did you duct tape it before cutting it?

That was not built properly at all. The braid should be flush with the end of the hose and cleanly cut.

It was tightly wrapped in electrical tape before being cut by my angle grinder. The stainless wrap sprung out like that after slipping the collar on and removing the tape before attempting to seal it. I made it a bit worse when I jammed it back on for the video. The red/blue fittings I bought, which I know are -8 AN, do not thread onto the oil cooler, nor does it look like the angles of the flares match, so I'm guessing it's not actually -8 lines like I thought they were, just a cheap imitation.

I'd have a hydraulic shop make them, but it'd be way too much work to try and accurately measure line length. I'm ordering the replacement parts now.

maybe just shitty braided line. I got mine from Summit and it went right on.

i have some wicked high pressure oil push on lines if you want. pm me.

same thing happened to me, a location hose shop charged me $6 to attacked 4 fillings. took me 2 hours to fail. shows you what my time was worth.

Its the way the ebay hose is made. It is a standard rubber hose with a stainless cover.

I don't think it's rubber hose at all, look how thin it is. It's more of a cheap irrigation hose or something. I'm spending the $85ish for new stainless steel hose, and 2 more 90* fittings and NPT adapters for the other end of the hose.

The AN fittings are designed to go on a specific type of hose -- that hose looks like it's the wrong size. The cutter on the fitting is designed to cut into the middle of the hose so that the inner part slides into the gap, and the outer part goes over it. Hard to describe, but if you were to take a properly-made fitting apart again and look end-on at the hose, you'd see a slit all the way around. (BTW, if you do this then you have to cut the end of the hose off to reattach it, you can't just put it back together).

My advice is to buy the Earl's hose from Summit. It's expensive, but that's because it's made right.

--Ian

I'd also opt for the nylon braided hose instead of the stainless. The stainless will abrade through everything it touches. Plus, the nylon hose is much easier to work with.

--Ferdi

Done and done. Hose and fittings are on their way, I'll post up a few pictures once I'm done. It'll be a while though, since it looks like I'll have to remove my intake manifold to properly get to the oil cooler sandwich. Which involves draining the coolant. FML.

The result of 86 more dollars, including a free razor:
Attachment 193881
Went with steel fittings to save about $10, and they come with a little brass bushing
I did install one of the other fittings, I swear to christ I better not have any problems with these. I haven't tried yet since I'm still working on dissassembling before I cut the line to length. It won't pull off at all now:
Attachment 193882
I didn't want to over-torque the fitting, but should the collar be flush? It's pretty tight right now.

Next concern is that my sandwich plate appears to have gaskets on the fittings. So either there's a needless gasket or I'll have to re-tap for 1/2NPT. I'm praying for needless gaskets.

Also, anyone know if I can remove the filter and sandwich plate without draining the oil? It should all be in the pan, right?

Are you sure those steel fittings are for that hose? Usually the fittings with the brass ferrules are for high-pressure teflon lines.

On all the hoses I have assembled, the collar sits flush with the fitting.

What brand sandwich plate? I know Mocal uses 1/2" BSP fittings that are not tapered, so that's why they have sealing washers. 1/2"NPT fittings will thread and seal into the 1/2"BSP ports, but you have to be careful not to over tighten and crack the housing.

Yes, you can remove the sandwich plate without draining the oil.

--Ferdi

It's a no-name eBay sandwich plate. I'll be careful when I thread them in, and I always use Teflon goo. I'm really worried the steel fittings are wrong too. I bought them to save a couple bucks, I hope I didn't over look the fact that theyre for another type of line. The way this project is going I wouldn't be surprised.


Good to know about the oil, that's one less fluid I have to drain.

Dear lord what a nightmare.
Attachment 193763
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It was going to be a pain to access the lines and sandwich plate without removing the intake manifold, so that came off. I also decided to tackle the clutch line replacement that I got here, https://www.miataturbo.net/group-buys-member-discounts-23/stainless-steel-clutch-line-gb-42901/, NINE months ago, along with a mild wire tuck on the passenger side. On top of fabbing up some block off plates for Wayne_curr, and having to take off the alternator bracket to make some clearance, it was giant pain, but it's now done. The orientation shown won't work, there's no way to tighten that intake manifold bolt directly above the two lines. After these pictures were taken, I had to rotate the lines so they were under the alternator bracket, and cut a "V" out of the underside so they'd fit.

Curly, i was under the impression I had my oil cooler upside down, mine is also feeding from the bottom like yours.

Also wanted to know how much teh line and fittings all ran you. I am considering redoing mine with SS lines and real fittings with a properly ducted cooler.

I thought about this, the cooler on my motorcycle has the fittings facing up. I think part of it is it keeps oil in the cooler. Otherwise when you have the engine off and you check the oil level, it gives you a false reading. As soon as the engine turns on, a bunch gets pumped into the cooler and suddenly your pick up is dry. Although that's also dirty oil that stays in your cooler during an oil change. I solved this by putting it with the fittings facing down, but some of the oil will still stay in since the lines go up hill.

90* fittings are $15 each, NPT->AN are $4 each, and 10' of Summit's cheapest hose was $45. The cooler came from RPW at $48 I think. So since you already have a cooler, that's $120 in fittings and hoses, although you could save $15 by using your 90* adapters. So that's ~$105. I wouldn't though, you can't tighten them properly and get the angle you want. With swivel adapters, you can. You can save another $15 if you can get away with 4 feet less in hose. As you can see in that last picture, my placement and routing could get away with about 2 feet less on the left fitting, and about 1 foot less for the right fitting, so I had to do a 10' piece. You're fortunate since you can pull your rubber hoses off and measure exactly what you need.

@tsb i have some extra fittings from my oil cooler you can have. (they are from lpiracing). (btw the advantage of local is you can get half the line and see exactly how much u need.)

@curly just thought i'd mention, i have one of these which i really like (http://www.cmfilters.com/oil_filters.html)
http://www.cmfilters.com/images/canister.jpg

http://i892.photobucket.com/albums/a...nsb/canton.jpg

can i ask y'all a real embarrasing question? how do you change oil? i have been just leaving the old oil in the lines/cooler figuring i change often enough, who cares if there is a 3 quarts of old oil in the lines. but i was considering doing a UOA ala hustler and wanted to start with fresh everywhere.

how do u do it?

EDIT: i see curly wrote he put the cooler with fittings facing down. mine are facing up... i'm stuck i guess....

Just as if I didn't have an oil cooler. Like I said, I think enough of the oil from he cooler comes out. If you feel bad about the dirty oil in the cooler, you should be removing the head and cleaning it out every oil change. That's my opinion anyways.

Hustler tells me the cooler will fill with air if the fittings are on the bottom. I have this same cooler, practically no air, if any flows through it, fittings on the bottom and i saw 300+ oil temps last time on track (in 100*+ heat though)

Attachment 193716

I may try a NASA duct in the bumper to try and get some air into and through the cooler as well as flipping it around. My current lines are for sure way to short, they are at the longest distance where they currently sit and I am not totally happy with it.

Jason, I will GLADLY take you up on that offer! You dont happen to have any extra line do you? I was about to place an order tonight or tomorrow. Also, was wondering where locally was for the hose? Only place I can think of off the top of my head is Royal Brass in SJ.

This, i just change it i never really though about how much "extra" oil is really in there. However, my oil never has more than 150 track miles on it anyways it gets changed so often :/

Attachment 193715

rx7 cooler owns your life. ~260*F with no airflow.

Too much cooling for how many street miles my car sees. I compromised by staying with the same design, but went a little bigger. From how cheap the lines were, I'm assuming that even the same sized TRU-cooler would have been better than my Egay unit.

Not to mention my cooler was $45+$8 in adapters. A used RX-7 would cost about the same, but aren't the nessecary adapters kind of expensive?

http://www.anplumbing.com/shop/index...p=&dept=Metric
Part # 9919FFK

11 bucks each to get it to -10AN, in addition to the rest of the fittings. Hopefully i can find a cheap rx7 unit FAST. Anyone whos got one for sale, or finds one for the cheap please PM me. Ill <3 you forever!

Ok, my prices were for -8an, but it should be about the same. Keep in mind you'll have to buy the -10->npt adapters for the sandwich plate too.

Ive got AN's on the plate now, just had pushlock 90* fittings on there.

Why no oil filter relocation? You already have must of the work done. I always hated changing the filter on my car. It makes a mess and its a pain in the ass to get to, and if it gets too tight from the last oil change...This is what I did, I could have run another straight fitting towards the front of the car and ran an oil cooler but was too lazy to mount one up.

One thing we do in our Legends Cars is mount the oil coolers sideways and pump the oil in threw the bottom. That way the oil is in the cooler longer as it is being fed up through the rows instead of just running down. I am curious as to how it will work with it mounted upside down.

I am not trying to sound like I am bashing, so please dont think I am.

-Ryan

i found these extras so far, i'll take look to see if any more stragglers. the single 90 is regular, not a double swivel. i also have some 12AN port <-> regular 10AN fittings, but i'm guessing they are only useful for canton hardware whereas you are probably looking for setrab style (i'm guessing).

Attachment 193704

i got 12" hosed left is all. i got fittings and hose from lpiracing ppl. they are in livermore so lots closer for me than for u. they have really good selection of fittings though. picture 8' x 6' wall of fittings.

actually, i'm thinking of heading out there to see about fuel stuff, if you want me to pick u anything, just holler.

I'm thinking about trying that RX7 oil cooler again but I want to keep the crash beam. I may get Abe to reweld some of the fittings in a different location so I can put it in front of the radiator. I also want to do a filter relocation...but $$$ makes me sad.

those xrp fittings go on really hard. but i found the following technique worked to get the little buggers on:

put a little motor oil on the outside of the stainless and get the fitting over the edge of the stainless (leaving the original tape on, but only 400* worth or so).

then get some of those sticky atlas gloves
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/...NL._SS500_.jpg
to hold the hose and press the fitting against a car tire. the rubber will hold the fitting and it will go on super easy (< 5sec).

then mark the hose with a sharpie near the fitting (this will let you see if the fitting is getting pulled off the hose when you start tightening things down)

put the other half of the fitting over the end of the hose and carefully screw the halves together. then just be careful not to strip the threads when you start tightening. its aluminum and a little bit soft for the first couple of turns.

No offense taken. I did not do a filter relocation, because I have enough issues with leaking already. I didn't want to add another line and seal for the relocation setup. That and it's extra weight, which only saves me a couple seconds during an oil change. I can easily access my oil filter from above for now. Coolant reroute certainly made it harder.

However, your setup is the first I really like. It's not the usual STUPID firewall location.

I like the idea of mounting it sideways. Although I'm not sure if your logic about pumping it in from the bottom is true. You're feeding it at 45ish psi. So you're either staying at 45ish psi or you're loosing oil pressure because of the setup.

Yeah, you are probably right about the way the lines are plumbed. I could see if it only made 5 psi then it might be more necessary. But then again we arent pumping that match psi out of the engines in the Legends Cars, maybe 20 or so. We dont run any gauges so I really dont know. Maybe I will hook one up this weekend for Buttonwillow and find out. Glad you like my setup though, I was pleased with it.

P.S. I see your charcoal canister line is VTA like mine. Last track day I had it was puking gas out. Ever have that problem? It was 105*+, and I was running a rising rate fuel pressure regulator, so that ups the fuel tank pressure to 120psi or so. I'm hoping with MS that problem is gone, but would like your input.

P.P.S. I'll get some more pictures up as soon as I get the new fittings in. Had to ship those F'ing steel fittings back. So much for saving a couple bucks.

I have a question for all of you with "inverted" style oil coolers where the oil feed and return lines are at the bottom of the cooler.

How do you remove the air from the oil cooler?

It seems to me: if you install the cooler inverted without any oil in it, you oil pump will have to fill the cooler. The cooler immediately begins filling with oil (or fills up once a thermostat redirects the oil) but the oil all stays in the bottom of the cooler. Theres a rather large air pocket at the top of the oil cooler that isn't filling with oil, and isn't helping you cool the oil. If there isn't a lot of oil restriction on the "out" line of the oil cooler, then the oil simply flows in, and then back out. Oil pressure in the cooler will help to compress the air, but you've still got a massive air pocket in there. Also, if you're driving and your oil pressure drops momentarily (for instance, if you're tracking the car, and brake hard from a long straight into a tight curve) then you add a small air bubble to the oil cooler during that instance when you weren't picking up oil. If you add enough of these small pre-compressed air bubbles, it eventually forces more and more oil capacity out of the oil cooler.

Am I missing something, or do you have some sort of magical 'air purge' valve that releases air pressure from the top without letting oil through?

If the fittings were at the top, oil would immediately fall to the bottom of the oil cooler until the oil cooler was full, thus forcing all of the air out of the cooler on first start. Any air bubbles would be quickly dealt with as well.

So, how do you inverted guys do it?

I've found the Jeg's house brand and Fragola AN fittings go together very easily. I HATE Aeroquip. I just picked-up a few red Mocal fittings so we'll see how that goes.

"We" do nothing special. Coolers have been run with the fittings on top and/or the fittings on bottom. It's not black magic. Air gets vented through the valve cover, either my VTA port or the PCV. It's pumping through at a supposed 30-90psi, I doubt much air is sticking around up top. Even if it is, my oil temps are cooler now than without it, so it's working.

this is only the 4th day with it being VTA, I did notice a little gas running down the frame rail but it wasnt much. I am curious as to what the inside of the K-frame looks like where it is normally vented...

Also, more pictures:
Attachment 193695
Attachment 193696
Just getting everything buttoned up. Pretty clean eh? This is the result of my "mild" wire tuck. The wiring and plumbing along the firewall will be cleaned up a bit before I'm done. I really really really wanna weld/bolt some clamps to the intake manifold for the coolant reroute pipe. I really hate how it sits crocked. I also wish I had yanked out the water port in the front and drilled and tapped it for NPT, as I was taking these pictures I realized the plug I put on there only a few months ago is already cracking.

Right now it would crank without starting and puke oil out the lines. A while ago I was having MS issues and Wayne_Curr graciously switched with me so he could fix it. He's been running flawlessly for months now, so it's time to get mine back. Along with a RFLBOV :firedevil
Hopefully Summit's return system works well and my chicken scratch hand writing is legible to the poor soul who tries to read it, and I get the right parts back.

lookin good, looks like you dont have the brace under the intake down to the block either, ever had any problems without it being there?

Nope, I'm not that bad ass. From what I've heard it's the steel brace going from the intake manifold to the throttle body that is important, or else you snap throttle plate rods. I use that hole from the IM brace to bolt a rubber coated metal hanger for the coolant reroute pipe, which you can barely see (it's not bolted up yet).

That cast piece has been out of my car for years, my fingers are crossed for the throttle shaft though..

well shiit, I hope mine will hold up as well...

Finally finished, just have to finish buttoning up the bumper and bleed my clutch after installing the TSE clutch line.

Attachment 193526
Attachment 193527

Just a note for future summitracing.com orders: If you have to return/exchange an item, and you have enough spare money, and you need the part asap, return the part and buy the correct one online. I could've saved 2-3 days if I had done that instead of exchange, but my MS and new BOV came the exact same time, so I couldn't of started it anyways.

Got this from Wayne_Curr for the awesome price of fab'ing some brackets. Hope it's as loud as he says it is, and as a side benifit I hope it doesn't leak at the 10+psi I'm running.
Attachment 193528

I recommend you duct that oil cooler. I had the same one and even with direct air it was horribly inefficient.

looks good curly, do you by any chance run an oil temp gauge?

I'll work on it. I know it's not very efficient right now, there's only an inch between the back and the bumper support. There's some slack built into the lines so in the future I can push it out, up or down. It's running leak free right now, that was priority one.

I do run a oil temperature gauge. It's in the sandwich plate. Unfortunetly I don't have good data for "before". I haven't even used the MS on track, and before that was with the crappy oil cooler. I believe I was running 170ish on the street and 200+ on track.

I would like to get a gauge installed into my remote oil filter adapter, just to see what its running at with no oil cooler and then possibly install one to see how well it works. And possibly move it around and find the best spot/best ducting to it for maximum efficiency.

Unless your oil cooler was specifically designed to run with the fittings on the bottom:

In this scenario, the valve cover doesn't help with shit.

Attachment 193515

Or has someone found a way to make oil lighter than air?