Oil pump failure (*Pic)
 

Stock gears + Motor was spun to 8k on ocassion (not tach indicated 8k but mspnp 8k).

Attachment 198465


Failure occured around stock revlimit though.

I remember Joe saying he wanted to see my pump when my motor ate it and until the other day I totally forgot to pull it apart, I think my welder buddy can fix it though :laugh:


-Dean

Trust me, I know the feeling...

That sucks big time man, that block is gone as it is going to cost more to bring that block to specs than simply just getting a used one from a JY and call it a day.

You should take pics of the oil residue in the pan, I bet you can take some cool shrapnel photos.

Mine happened a week ago, stock ECU, revved to 7,000 (I even have a shift light and oil mechanical gauge), boostin to 15 psi, religiously change the oil every 2 to 3,000 miles BUT I had a lightened aftermarket crank pulley (no harmonic balancer).

Did you had stock harmonic or aftermarket?

I could use this for advertising, nudge nudge. Sorry to hear about your loss. I hope your rebuild goes well.

Yikes! I think I am pulling the motor. Travis, you will be hearing from me.

Glad I picked up a billet gear set for my build.

Travis, sure man go right ahead, just make sure you say it was from my motor lol

And there is no rebuild, FE3 is going in instead

I'll be ordering me some soon as well

Glad I got the BE OP. I'm going to spin the piss out of this thing.

Ouch! Sorry to hear about it letting go man... At least you have a gameplan already in place though.

So wait.. what exactly caused it to fail? Spinning it too high.. or the power?

Based on his sig, it has some power and loves trannies... I'm not big on trannies, but to each their own.

Check out our info on oil pumps and gears. That should help explain what happened.

http://www.boundaryengineering.com/hfoil.php

Our billet gears are chrome-moly which hold together under extreme conditions, a true high performance upgrade with peace of mind.

Is it possible than instead of ordering the gears, checking for clearances and if not I must return the gears for better spec one, than to just send the OEM oil pump and the gears are sent with those pump clearances...?

Good info.. I'm coming from the honda world where self destructing oil pumps are pretty much unheard of. Shim the pump for high boost apps and you're good to go. I guess I need to look into a billet pump.

Stuard D, Are you going to answer the question?

I think it makes a lot of sense instead of chasing around back and forth on the mail which is the correct gearing clearance.

As I have read others receive the gears and is not the correct one for the housing and has to be sent back. It is even better that is the shop who checks for clearances. I bet your measurements on the pump would be more accurate than the ones I will perform.

there qc was good before but damn near paranoid in light of there few failures. I have emailed with travis about it myself and i believe him when he says there shit is as good as i can get. I wouldnt have bought from them otherwise. Will i be proven wrong when i go to start my car on saturday who knows but i doubt it. :magna:

Mazpr, I will try and answer the question but I am not sure what you are asking.

Of all the gear sets we have shipped less than 2% have been returned for clearance issues. Two returns stand out, one the customer received a gear set that the inner gear thickness was borderline max yet the outer was in spec. Another return was due to an out of spec tooth clearance. I think there was one more set that was returned because the side clearance was over the high limit for his housing.

We have recently created a process where each gear set is hand fitted and checked to a stock housing. The customer receives a listing of the clearances that is signed and dated. If the gear set is out of spec in the customer's housing, then the housing is worn too much and needs to be replaced.

If you would like to send in your (clean) housing for fitment, that would be fine. You will receive a listing of the clearances that is signed and dated. Turn around time is 2-4 days after receipt of the housing. Please provide name, address, phone and email.

Ship to:
Boundary Engineering
Machining Division
7 Dunham Drive
New Fairfield, CT 06812

I hope I answered your questions.

Stuart

Stock or aftermarket balancer?

billet gears, oil pump
 

Uhh!?

I did use an aftermarket lightened crank pulley which I used for more than 4 years when it was NA, but I guess the vibrations were to much for forced induction at 15 psi.
______________________


Stuart D, Thanks for the answer, that sounds great.

Same with Paul. His oil pump went too when he ran the underdrive pulley. Stock pulley, 311rwhp, nothing has blown yet with 30k on the current setup.

I think it is really just a matter of RPM and Boost. There is also the matter of if your flywheel/crank is lightened or not. The lighter the rotating assembly gets the better "she rings true and long." I seen a great video once where they tapped a crank with a stock fly wheel and the sound deadened immediately. Then they attached a lightweight flywheel on it, and it sounded like you just hit the liberty bell. No one is ever going to be able to track down exactly why the failures happen or when they will happen. Its too complex, but the more things you have done to prevent it the better. Heavier assembly, maintaining the stock dampener, and certainly if you switch to upgraded gears.

http://www.spaceflight.esa.int/impre...aryImage37.jpg

This is literally what a sintered metal looks like under an electron microscope. They swiss cheese like that all the way through, not just on the surface. To make the stock gears they take metal powder (the nodules seen in the picture), put it into a dye, heat the dye up, and then press it. Why do they do it this way? Cheap, and very dimensionally stable. The only other way to do it is to forge it with a post operation of CNC machining, CNC machine from billet, or wire EDM from billet. Its clear which one is cheaper to mass produce, and it does work fine at stock power levels.

TravisR, so after reading what you posted let me add I also had a lightened stock flywheel (5 pounds off at the machine shop)...

I guess I know what I got to do whenever I want to destroy an oil pump.

Thanks for the detail response.

i have dismantle the oil pump on my Miata... can someone please tell me if i need to time the pump accordingly to the dots i see on the gears and to the crackshaft timing marks ?

The dots are not supposed to be aligned. There are n-1 teeth on the inner gear, so every inner gear and every outer gear tooth will mesh together, and every tooth position will be at every position in the housing. Just put them in.

I think the only deal with the dots is so you do not mount them backwards...

From what I read in the instructions just put some oil on it to prime it, some have said of adding vaseline on first startup.

Vaseline? Really... I haven't done too much research into this, but it seams to me a healthy coat of engine assembly lube and a bit of oil to prime it should do the trick..

We use teflon impregnated grease, but thats our own spin on it. The only real function of it is to seal the teeth against the sides so the initial startup prime time is short. Otherwise the .001-.005in of side clearance will leak air and cause the vacuum to be slightly longer to build so that the oil takes a longer time to draw up the tube.

Incidentally one of our customers put a pump designed for the 91.5-00 engines into a 01 oil pump housing. At around .025in of side clearance the pumps will not prime, but they still pump when they are pre-primed with oil. So the priming operation does really help with initial startup. The big thing to remember is that unprimed pumps still get the job done, and pumps with 5x the advertised max clearance unprimed is just starting the point where the pump will no longer prime. That means that although its good to put something in there, if you left it completely bare you still wouldn't have problems. Just about anything in there is going to do the job, and will be really rapidly replaced with actual engine oil to make whatever you did put in there go away.

The reason we use teflon impregnated grease in ours is that teflon will actually bind to the walls of the aluminum housing and the pump so that it will reduce wear/friction. A product similar to that is probably the only kind product that has a lasting effect on the system.

I am goin to do it, this is the kit I am goin to buy:

http://i20.ebayimg.com/01/i/001/2c/9b/0716_35.JPG

Around 780.00 delivered from EBAY seller - rsracecom

The only thing I dont like about the kit is the compression available, the highest is 8.8.
I was looking more for 9.5 as I used to have 10@1 cast at 15 psi with a T3/T4 and held pretty good, the stock rods bent with the fabulous oil pump as you know exploded. I might as well just do it right.

Thats why I am leaning toward Supertech 9.5 / 83.5mm for 412 and the belfab rods for 300ish or so...

http://949racing.com/ProductImages/Belfab_Pistons.jpg

http://949racing.com/ProductImages/B6BP_rods.jpg

The local machine shop charges,

$15.00 per overbore
$75.00 to clean the tank or whatever the bubble bath it gets to make it look pretty
$12.00 something about the rods or whatever and also to change the freeze plugs.
$65.00 to balance or play-doh thing on the crankshaft

Does this sound about right for the machine shop?

The MS was recommended by a NAPA red-neck V8 knucklehead locally.

Thats me :D

The incorrect (brand new '01) housing was used with the '94 pump gears. After a dismantling, and replacing the pump housing with a brand new correct '94 housing using the BE gears, The entire system put out an extremely solid self-prime after 10 seconds of cranking on the first turn of the key.

That being said, I have a brand new '01+ pump housing sitting in my garage that I cant do anything with. It has about .009 miles on it (pulling out of the garage, and back in, after a pre-prime) So if anyone wanted to put a set of aftermarket 01+ gears in it, I might let the housing go for $100 or so...

Seams reasonable to me. Thats about what the machine shop that does my work charges.