ninerwfo

Hi folks, we are approaching "1st start" on a built engine - and now I have the biggest case of the "yips" from reading all the horror stories about how brand new engines have been destroyed in the first 2mins of their life.

So - what are your preferred protocols for 1st starts on built engines? How can I make SURE that there is enough oil pressure while it is cranking?
Many thanks.

Art

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tetraruby

Running used cams?

You could pull the plugs and spin it up until the oil pressure gauge indicates good pressure.

From my experience, get it started and go drive the crap out of it for a few miles. Easier said than done, but that's how I "broke in" my last full build. Typically, driving the car as you would normally is about the best approach for a one of these four bangers. One thing- use dino oil initially. Also, it's good to use a healthy oil additive.


Edit: just found it:
LUC-10063-1
Motor Oil Additive
ZDDP, Engine Break-In, 16 oz.

danotakulus

Here you go.
https://www.flyinmiata.com/tech/breakin.php

codrus

I followed the FM procedure: Assembly lube on everything, fill with straight-weight, non-detergent break-in oil. Check tire pressure, wash windows, etc (everything necessary to drive the car). Take out plugs & disable fuel somehow (I pulled main relay, I think), crank until oil pressure registers. Start car, check for leaks. Go for drive and do the high-rev-in-atmo-then-coast-down-in-gear thing. Do about 20-30 miles, change oil. After 200 miles, take it to Laguna Seca.

--Ian

AndrewG

This is a big no no ! the poor oil pump have not enough pressure at 300 or so cranking RPM to push the oil all the way to the top of the head !
My way to do first start is :

- use assembly lube everywhere where the mechanical contact is (bearings, lash caps/valve, lash caps/lifters, cams, cyl wall)
- fill the engine with the fresh oil of your choise, it is great to use oil with a lot of zink additives to help break in
- fill the coolant system
- double check your map, all electronical connections, etc. to be sure the car will start asap, ideally on first try (it is not going to start on the first one )
- personally I like to make few fuel pump priming before start, or extend period of the priming
- If it does not starting do not cranking it excessively long time, you will remove most of the assembly lube off.
- when it starts, try to hold RPM at about 3k RPM, so the pump have good enough flow to push the oil all around the engine do not let it idle.
- after the oil (not coolant) reach operating temperature, you can len it run for few more minutes and then shut it down.
-change the oil and check for any metal particles. If there is excess of them, you have a bad day

- enjoy your new build !

This is my "procedure" if there is some steps I forget or I may do better, let me know as I am building new motor just now.

ryansmoneypit

iTrader: (6)

If it's a turbo engine, I use a shop vac to prime the whole system. Put the vacuum on the oil feed line for the turbo. I use a short piece of clear tube and duct tape, to adapt the vacuum to the hose, then the hose to the feed line. Takes about 10 minutes, but you will see a tiny bit of oil start to apear in the clear tube. You should now get full oil pressure in just a couple RPMs.

Art

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Stealth97

iTrader: (5)

Everyone has their own opinion... here is what I did.

Filled with straight 30wt, Pulled the aux plug on the oil pump, filled with oil. spun it over without spark until I saw some oil pressure. Fired up until it got up to temp while checking for leaks, drained and refilled oil. Went for a ride around the neighborhood to make sure it would not just die on me, and then hit the open road and drove the **** out of it. Changed oil at 300 miles, then hit the dyno. Its been a good engine now for over 10 years, somewhere close to 40k miles on it at this point.

chicksdigmiatas

iTrader: (11)

I just pulled the fuel injector fuse and cranked until i saw pressure on a manual external gauge.

Most of the reasons engines fail within the first few hundred miles is poor build attention.

Never trust gaskets you get with kits and dont pass your common sense eye ball test.

Once you have established oil pressure and no coolant leaks, move to the break in phase asap.
I used basic engine building skills and reference from my machine shop when building my motor. When something seemed wrong, it was. I didnt trash a new engine because of it. If you dont get oil pressure within the first 30 seconds cut it off, and know you probably have to tear everything back apart.

curly

iTrader: (25)

I recently installed a TSE motor and really liked the break in instructions it came with. I vacuum bled the coolant system, cranked with no plugs for oil pressure, idled for less than 30 seconds, then immediately put 50(?) miles on it, gradually upping the rev limit from 4k(?) to eventually 7k. All while avoiding any steady state rpm, and seeing lots of vacuum.

Im saying this all from memory from this summer, so hopefully andrew will chime in and share his break in instructions with us.

chicksdigmiatas

iTrader: (11)

That is pretty good break in for any engine in general. Make sure you have oil pressue, no coolant bubbles, then lots of vacuum to seat the rings.

curly

iTrader: (25)

Yup, I followed it to a T and had zero issues. Highly recommended. It doesn't seem like it'd be proprietary information, so hopefully I haven't said to much and hopefully #Savington, #Andrew, #Trackspeed Engineering will chime in...

Savington

iTrader: (31)

I have a step-by-step that goes out with the motors I build, but the basic jist of it is what's already been said. Bleed the cooling system, crank without plugs for oil pressure, then fire it up, check for leaks in the first 30 seconds, and if it's not gushing fluids, get on the road. Lots of WOT, lots of vacuum, varying RPM, slowly lift max RPMs. Change the oil at 100 miles and 1,000 miles.

navalhawkeye

Not sure if this is closely related enough or should have warranted a new thread.

What about a racing only engine? Will be putting a freshly built engine in my autocross only car. I can drive it on the street some (very rural area), but no way I can put 50 miles on it. Going to discuss with the engine builder when I pick it up, but curious what the general consensus is.

ninerwfo

Many thanks to all, some great info !

AndrewG

Isnt the think with cranking without plugs nonsens ? You definitelly build much more engines than I did but well this sounds stupid to me. We use assembly lube for this reason in my opition. Idea of assembly lube is to protect the engine and its components for the few seconds it have no real oil pressure. If you spun the engine on the starter with 300RPM I do not believe you will get enough oil if any into cylinder head, but you will definitelly remove assembly lube coating from the cam journals and cam lobes. Am I missing something here ?

Savington

iTrader: (31)

Logically, what would remove the assembly lube aside from the oil being pumped in to replace it?

AndrewG

Well how long will it take to pump the oil into head ? All I wanted to say is that the idea of assembly lube is to protect engine during first few moments after engine start/cranking. If you try to pump the oil all the way to the head you basically scraping off this assembly lube. At some point the oil will get there, but my main concern is that the oil pump at 300RPM or so have no enough flow/pressure to force enough oil soon enough into cylinder head, so you just basically wasting the "safe time" that assembly lube gives to you. If the oil pump is able to really push enough of oil into cylinder head fast enough it is clear. True is that I personally did not tried to prime the engine like so without cam cover to see if the oil is getting there. BTW did you tried to do so ? I still believe that the modern asembly lube are all you really need before firing the car up for the first time and all the cranking withoud spark/fuel is not what you want. But as I said you build more engines than I did so you probably do it right.

Art

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