Radiator choices?
 

I am looking to get rid of the stock radiator to clear room for my IC. I was thinking about the honda half core one. I'm stuck between an ebay 3 core 3 Row Core Aluminum Radiator 12" Black Cooling Fan 92 00 Honda Civic EG Integra | eBay vs mishimoto duo core Mishimoto Aluminum Half Core Radiator 92 00 Civic D15 D16 B16 Honda Turbo Vtec | eBay

What's wrong with IC in front of radiator? Also what is the purpose of the car? Track? Auto-x?

Well for now it's just for preemptive measures for the motor. I was told at the last miata meet that an ideal ic/radiator combo would be to have them next to each other. That way neither of them are blocking air flow from each other.

For future reference I would like to be able to track it here and there.

The standard track tested method is IC in front. You have a lot more reading to do. This thread should answer what you need: https://www.miataturbo.net/race-prep...-thread-79930/

Long time someone did a side by side setup using a 3" core (from memory), it barely was good enough for the street.

Seriously? wow.. but how good are the half core radiator for a turbo miata? I would like it just for the fact that it will give me more space. Would it be better then the oem one that I have at least?

Doesnt matter, If you want a half core you'll need to do a custom setup so any rad of the correct size goes.

He literally just said that it barely worked for the street...

Is it due to the fact that it's a smaller radiator which holds less liquid?

Sorry I wasn't thinking straight my mind was to set on the space efficiency that a half core would give me. In other words.. no it would actually be worst for my turbo miata?

Half core radiators do not work in Miatas.

TNTUBA has one of the baddest miata's on here and runs a half core. One of the top cars in SSM auto-x. I'm pretty sure it can work if you do it right.

I'm not knocking Eric's car, because its well built, but being an auto-x car that only sees load for 60 seconds at a time for 3-8 runs a day, you can get away with a smaller cooling system.

I believe he has tracked the car. Maybe I'm wrong.

I believe solo I after nats was as close to tracking as its gotten. But some people have the opinion that prosolo is more demanding of the cooling system than tracking the car. Since you are balls to the walls for 30-60 seconds, then sit in stop can go traffic for a couple minutes, and do it again. I'm not so sure. I personally have trouble keeping the auto-x car cool in weather over 85*F with the ebay manifold but it doesnt get hot until being back in grid for a couple minutes. IMO on a mazda B motor I wouldnt try running a half width rad on a track car, I just dont see it working.

Inaccurate statement is inaccurate.

Not only will they work. They will work well. You can talk about "autoX" all you want....but during a several hour long, steady state tuning session, it never even got got warm enough to have to take a break. If it's not going to get hot on the dyno....it's not going to get hot.

With two drivers at a the Pro Finale with a "pod" of only 4 pairs (read Hot Lapping) in weather over 100 degrees, the car never got over 206 degrees.

Is your half radiator an eBay special?

And my car is higher compression (read: more heat), higher boost (read: more heat) and higher power(you guessed it...more heat) than 99% of the cars on this site.

At the end of the day you need a well designed cooling system built with quality parts. What works on my car may or may not work on yours. your results may vary.

No. It is a name brand 3 core. The car also has a hotside re-route.

Good point for discussion but based on the links posted in the OP I would think he isn't going name brand.

What makes yours work so well? Better radiator core? Better ducting?

Luck I guess. you know.....because it wont work.

I'm just genuinely curious. With all the overheating issue that plague even stock miatas are you doing something better/different? Or is it a secret :)

Ok lots of good advices here. Let me rephrase my goals then. It just want a better cooling system than the oem one. That will be ok for a once a month track day. So is it safe to say that with a coolant reroute it would be safe to use a half core for a daily drive?

Obviously you're gonna get differing opinions on that.

One thing to look into is "water wetter" additive. I'm sure someone will crap on that idea too, but I've used it in the past with some success. Don't need it in my miata auto-x racecar. Running an oem radiator and a single high cfm fan and getting by fine.

Fuck me, dont be an idiot, stop.

Side by sides can of course be done, all sorts of shit can be done if you are clever enough to design and test a system that actually works using the right components.

But for fuck sakes OP, just put a reroute and a cheap ebay radiator in and stop with this BS.

Dann

^ Will be ordering my flee bay radiator and will get back to you guys after I do a reroute and install it.

V mount and be done with it.

I second the V-Mount, you'll be cool. Get it? Heheh

Hopefully OP doesn't mind me "piggybacking" his thread since it could help him and others. So my brown/green oem ticking time bomb of a radiator has finally decided to "blow" or rather seep from a small crack in my case. I had planned on getting a SuperMiata crossflow radiator($350) when they get another batch in since they usually sell before/by the time they get stocked but obviously I can't wait so I wanted to get experience from other Miata owners with the options I provide or others but please provide the information in the following format to make it easy to identity details:

Year of Miata:
Aspiration w/ list of engine modifications:
Primary use:
Brand of radiator:
Mileage/length of time since installed:
Comments:

Here are the options other than the SuperMiata crossflow($350, that isn't in stock):

$525- Flyin Miata crossflow 32mm core
Flyin' Miata : Engine/Drivetrain : Cooling : FM crossflow radiator

$279- Koyo 37mm core
Miata KOYO Radiator 37mm V1139 ALL Aluminum for Miata 1990-1997

$259- CSF 42mm core
CSF Miata 42mm Two Row Radiator for Miata 1990-1997

$255- Mishimoto 52mm core
Miata Mishimoto Radiator for Miata 1990-1997

$165- Sonic Motor 57mm core
Sonic Motor Aluminum Radiators - Sonic Motor - Power and Performance

You may ask why I didn't include the Track Speed Engineering crossflow radiator...well because it is overkill for my application/use and I'm not willing to slap down six Benjamin's for it, great as it might be.

Now I will be using mine, stock '97, as a daily in the normally warm to hot Texas days and hope to have it turbocharged by this summer. I also plan on doing a coolant reroute with the radiator replacement or before the turbo install. I appreciate everyone's assistance with this! :)

Chad


FYI: I have done research on the subject and found a good deal of helpful information, especially in the cooling thread on here, but was hoping to get a collective of responses to aid myself and others. My apologies if I missed such a thread.

Year of Miata:94 Miata, 97 miata
Aspiration w/ list of engine modifications: 94(Begi S1, 10PSI, No AC, Begi racer reroute), 97(MKturbo setup, AC/PS, no reroutes of any kind)
Primary use: Street and Autox
Brand of radiator: Original ebay radiators from 2008 mt.net group buy
Mileage/length of time since installed: 4 years before it started leaking on original one. Other 2 have been great for years.
Comments: I am a huge fan of the cheapest all aluminum ebay radiators you can fine as long as you are not doing heavy track days. I currently have 2 installed in 2 of my miatas. They work great and have decent fitment for the cost. The only way I would spend more money then that is going to a 949 or TSE radiator.

Thanks for the feedback Lars! I am considering this route, I don't suppose there is a "popular" cheap eBay radiator that you or someone else has a link to? Someone on cr.net said the Cx Racing is a popular choice on here?

Yeah cxracing is the way to go.

Chad if you werent having heat issues with the stock radiator put another stocker in. It'll last another 20 years before breaking. Things might change once you go turbo, if you go turbo, but since the radiator you want cant be had right now then $50 or so might make sense.

CXRacing is good for the cheapest non-plastic option, but while their customer service is OK, their quality control is poor at best.

Out of all your posted options Chad, I'd go this route:
Same manufacturer as the 949 one *very high quality*, same B-tube fin tech, with a more conventional configuration and a $100 lower price tag. If you can't wait for the next batch of 949's, this would be my choice.

-Ryan

A valid point Jonathan but as you stated if I do forced indction, which is in the works and hopefully life will ccooperate this time, the stocker probably will not cut it, though with the hood louvers and reroute I would be inclined to say it would but I TRY not to spend money twice and I'd rather not purchase a radiator with plastic end tanks, so the CSF unit looks like the winner in my eyes, thanks again Ryan for that information that I probably would have overlooked. :)

I really appreciate everyones quick responses and not brow beating me for continuing with a subject that probably gets beat to death! :blah:

Year of Miata: 1993

Aspiration w/ list of engine modifications: FMII stroker (GT3071R)

Primary use: Street; Autocross; Track (HPDE)

Brand of radiator: FM Crossflow rad

Mileage/length of time since installed: 20,000 km; 2-3 years

Comments: I can finally run a 20-30 minute track session without getting hot (or tackle a mountain pass with A/C running). It took the following:

• FM Crossflow radiator
• M-Tuned coolant re-route
• FM airflow kit
• FM oil cooler
• 20/80 coolant/water ratio
• Ducting that forced all incoming air to go through the heat exchangers
• Probably some other stuff that I can't recall right now

Mine's probably an extreme case, given that I wanted a modicum of comfort on the street (I actually added air conditioning to my car). To the OP: If you want to maximize the efficiency of an intercooler-before-radiator setup, add ducting. It's near free and it works.

I don't mind at all your info was very helpful.. Now it's either.. 3 row half core radiator or... mishimoto from a buddy of mine for $150.

I run a half width ebay ASI Performance 3 core radiator on a fairly serious built 1.8. I haven't had any issues on dyno, autotests or track work with temp. I didn't really research it much before I bought it but I figured if my stock radiator was good enough then a thicker 3 core with half the width would be fine. Glad i didn't read this thread before i ordered it!

I run a large oil cooler mounted in front of the radiator and the radiator is boxed in on all sides to half of the front mouth. I haven't driven it in the street but it would be fine as it ran on the dyno for hours without any issues. I also have a hot side reroute and no thermostat.

Having said all that... why bother with a half width unless you have serious plans for the other half? I had to make custom hangers to support the radiator and oil cooler. You can get the cheap ASI full width bolt in for not much more.

^^^I completely agree, why "limit" your radiator setup w/ a half radiator unless it is for a specific plan/purpose such as running a oil cooler mounted next to the radiator, although there is space else where depending on the size, or a water/air intercooler. In the end do what you think works best for you but just be sure to have a plan and that it will work because there is nothing worse then doing the same thing twice due to poor planning or "cheaping" out this first time around.

The problem with making statements like that is 90% of the clueless kids will see your post and immediately assume that some ebay honda half-rad on their otherwise stock cooling system thrown in without shrouding will "totes work, brah".

So you are both right, in a way.

So when I say you need a well designed system built from quality parts and what works on my car might not work on yours.....I'm clearly saying "don't go buy ebay junk, slap it on there and expect to be ok....and if you do, do so at your own risk"

I just have a problem with absolutes....especially when they aren't absolutely accurate. The better statement from Sav would have been "I don't have any direct experience with a half width radiator working on a Miata"

I guess I will add the disclaimer that I wouldn't run my cooling system the way it is "just because." I did it at first to save weight (which it really didn't save that much, the 3 core holds only slightly less water than my old 2 core and the new intercooler is heavier than the old one), to move weight back from the nose by eliminating the IC and pipes hanging out there, and to greatly reduce the lengths of the IC pipes. The hot side IC pipe is about 8" long and the cold side is about 18" long.

I am not and will not advocate that people do this AND if they do it is at their own risk.....but to say that it absolutely will not work is just not accurate.

lol I'm not disagreeing with you.

I have however, experienced directly the result of a kid that did this exactly how I described, cause he brought it to me just a week after to rebuild the toasted engine with warped head and blown head gasket haha

What we know is that many people have been successful with the usual choices. A small handful of people claim to have been successful with half-radiators. If you think are looking to bolt something up and go, I would suggest going with what the crowd is doing. If you are capable and willing to do some R&D work, perhaps you can join that handful of people that are being successful with the "non-standard" system. The important thing is to be honest with yourself about how capable and willing you are to do the R&D work.

robert

Thanks again for everyones input! I went ahead and verified there was a CSF radiator in stock and Goodwin Racing said there was ONE left so I placed my order for it and the Flyin Miata silicone lower radiator hose, thru FM, to get rid of the factory metal tube and remove two failure points. Will probably go ahead and get the remaining coolant hoses from Rosenthal($99.95 for all coolant andradiator hoses) unless someone has a lead on a better deal and will just sell the radiator hoses since I think I am going to go ahead and do the reroute. :)

The radiator/oil cooler combo you talk about was an exclusive product of Flying Miata. I believe it was tested in one of their race cars, just FYI

Inaccurate statement is inaccurate. I will qualify my statement with "in anything except a purpose-built autocross car". I've seen half-core cars overheat where stock radiator cars wouldn't/didn't, so unless you are building a national-level autocross car, half-core radiators are the wrong way to go.

I wasn't actually referring to theirs, in fact I didn't know they made one till Hyper contact me about one he has for sale but after some reading I do not think I will be using a oil cooler since it will more than likely see little to no track time, sadly. :loser:

Ok, I'll play:

Year of Miata: 2000

Aspiration w/ list of engine modifications: N/A, RB header, Squaretop, EV14's and MS3

Primary use: DD/HPDE

Brand of radiator: Koyo 37

Mileage/length of time since installed: 5 years?

Comments: I bought this radiator because at the time, the options for replacement were stock, eBay or Koyo. I've always run it with distilled water and Redline Water Wetter.

I ran this combination with A/C and intercooled Rotrex and it got hot in anything over 90°F ambient. Hot like cut your sessions short hot. I removed the A/C and buttoned up the ducting and things got much, much better, though I will say I didn't do a track day over 80°F ambient after removing the A/C.

I'm now running it N/A with a M-Tuned reroute, 185° t-stat and no A/C with zero issues. Anywhere. Ever. Overheating is the absolute last thing I worry about regardless of weather conditions.

The manufacturing on the Koyo is flawless. Much nicer than the generic eBay radiators I've handled. I'm not lying when I say that was a big part of what drove my decision to purchase the Koyo.

All the Cool kids are doing it.

Year of Miata: 1994 NA.

Aspiration w/ list of engine modifications: N/A, Exhintake, I/H/E, M-tuned Reroute, some quick ducting and sealing of Rad. 40/60 antifreeze mix.

Primary use: DD/Canyon Carver.

Brand of radiator: Mishimoto Dual Row.

Mileage/length of time since installed: 1 year ~20K miles.

Comments: When car was purchased it had the brown end-tanks of impending-doom. At elevation and almost no humidity car would get a bit warm when pushed hard. At the time I was a ClubRoadster noob (the worst kind of newb) and Mishimoto along with a "phillyb hates me" sticker was the recipe to cure all overheating woes.

Flash forward a Year and a coolant re-route later, it has proven to be rock solid reliable. Likely could have saved a bit of weight and space with a Koyo 37mm to better suit my needs but oh well.

Anyone else have any opinions on the CXR/Godspeed/etc offerings from ebay at this point? Or is the silence a sign that they work better enough than an oem radiator to merit the cost and purchase?

cheapest all aluminum radiators from eBay work fine. They are my goto for all my cars except a dedicated track car, then I go for the TSE radiator.

Thanks Lars.