is this right yes or no
 

No. The I and E marks on the gears should matchbook marks on the cover plate.

Is does the cover plate go over these gears? Its cut away i bought the car like this

He is talking about the black cover plate behind the gears, clearly visible in the picture. Look up how to set timing on a miata to get a better grasp of this.

Note taken. I just saw that. Now this adjustment must be with crank at top dead center.
It is not.i was just messing with my air intake and noticed it
Is there a way i can slip the belt off like this and turn them to were they are supposed to be? Without taking my whole front engine apart or is it undertension?

is this why my car seems like its running slow?

or are these cam gears set back for a reason..what im not understanding here is if they are supposed to ALWAYS be on the mark with the cover plate or if the previous owner did this because its a 99 head on a 94 block, or for timing with the megasquirt..

Im guessing the white out mark on the crank is either supposed to line up with that sharp pointy piece or the other piece that has numbers on it.

Is this somthing that will screw up my car? ive had it for a few months and just noticed this.

Stop touching everything and anything.

Take it to a competent mechanic.

Im NOT working on it or asking for an instructions manual.

simply ASKING QUESTIONS ABOUT it

Does it need to ALWAYS be on the mark?and does the big lower pully look off?
----> answer here <---

Is this issue going to blow my engine up if i keep driving on it.
it has probably been like this for several thousand miles. and it is running, i Felt like the car was slower than it should be.

IF you get cylinder #1 at TDC (don't trust the main pulley), then the pulley SHOULD point at the "T" on the lower timing cover. After verifying that the pulley is good, it's mark and the lower timing cover can be trusted.

ONCE at TDC, #1 lobes should point at 9 o'clock (intake) and 3 o'clock (exhaust). The cam sprockets SHOULD point at the E and the I (intake and exhaust respectively), with 19 teeth BETWEEN the 12 o'clock marks.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1395610963

props to your second answer that was very helpful. I am taking it to performance factory this week some time to get a diagnosis. and maybe a quote.

Also oil is leaking from what i believe is the front main seal, maybe i should tackle all of this (or have a shop do it) in one big cluster fix

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1395642038

The car feels slow because it's a Miata.

:dealwithit:

Quality Control Bot Activated Due to Appalling Lack of Quality Member, Drivel-Shit Post, and -56 props.

Quality Control Bot is Alarmed this "member" has slipped by under radar for so long...

So what now im going to get banned because i ask too many questions? Im here to learn and get info from more experienced miata owners. Its not my fault people give me negative props because i dont know everything there is to know. whats the point of having a forum if you cant help other people. Are ONLY certified ASE techs and seasoned race car drivers allowed to be posting on this site?

we've banned plenty of people who claimed they were ASE certified...

That's not why you're getting negative props. You're getting negative props because you're incapable of doing any thought or research for yourself. You refuse to help yourself and instead demand that everyone drop what they're doing and help you with the most well-documented and simultaneously stupid questions ever asked on the internet concerning these cars.

And then you get petulant over it.

If you can't be bothered to make an effort to help yourself, then why should we be bothered?

ok then. thanks for the videos zaphod.
Got an appointment for the guys over at performance factory to help me with timing issues, since leaking oil from front of engine will probably get new belts and seals. once car is done and running decent, and i get the freaking AEM wideband to read correctly im selling this one and getting a non-molested stock ecu 2004 mazdaspeed. and be happy with the tiny turbo.

That's.... probably one of the more ill-advised things i've seen on the internet today.




I thought you posted late last week that you got the wideband set up correctly.

I know, its weird. but it was reading dead on when i had it set on tech edge linear 0-5v but ever since i installed the RX-8 injectors and started over with a base tune its been way off by like .5-1.0 AFR....

right now im reading through threads trying to find how to enter data in the project cnfg file to make it match but im having trouble finding a solution

Are you sure that your AFRs just haven't really changed by that much? The scaling input isn't perfect. You're going to need to tune for new injectors even after you tell Megasquirt that you changed them.


Or is your gauge magically truly no longer matching Tunerstudio by .5-1.0 AFR with the new injectors?

No i did tune ve tables and the car is running fine. But the gauge is just different. I think i tried to change voltage correction like that one guy said it made a diffrence, but even after switching it back its off.

Ive been reading on msextra forums and i got some data points to try and enter manually, but im not 100% clear on exactly were to enter them in the code and what number goes were...
Im still awaiting my registration to come in so i can bother them

Wait guys.
Do you think that the cams are set back because the previous owner swapped in the 99 head?

And it is a 94 block

Explain.

I have a 1994 miata.
the block was rebuilt with manley rods, cp pistons etc...
they put on a new 1999 or 2000 Miata head, and intake manifold.

basically a 94 bottom end ( the best low compression)
and a 99 top end.

the previous guy was building the car for turbo.

now the car is running with the cam gears lined up like they are, but maybe now i'm thinking the cam gears are set the way they are because of the opposing head...

Just saying i have been reading and searching, and i called the local tuning shop and they were like "UHH well have to do some research"...

i just dont know guys.

We know you're clueless. We're not.

What the hell does "opposing head" mean anyways? You mean one from a different model miata?

Don't go to that tuning shop. Go only to shops specializing in Miatas or GTFO, way too easy to screw up, and tons of stories of just that.

The '99+ heads are better than the '94-'97 heads, but otherwise identical. Including the timing procedure.

What i meant was "explain WHY you think the head has anything to do with it?"

Not sure which WB gauge that you have, but with Innovate wide bands you can adjust the voltage vs AFR curve/ratio using the Innovate setup program and serial to gauge cable. I did this so that my gauge readout and AFR/Lambda at the MS 3 would match up.

Free Air Calibrate your wideband and trust the guage, not Tunerstudio MS.

Shit you need:
Sharpie, or white-out, or nail polish.
21mm Wrench. Wait, my pulley is shaved. 21mm Socket. 12mm Socket, 14mm Socket, 10mm Socket. Silicone Sealant.

You have adjustable Cam Gears on the car:

1. Remove Spark Plug from Cylinder 1, 2, 3, 4. Remove Dipstick. Remove Front Anti-Roll Bar (12 or 14mm bolts)
2. Get some paper towel, and put it into Cylinder 2,3,4 so you don't drop a screw, or something into it accidentally.
3. Dipstick, metal end down, into Cylinder 1.
4. Wrench/Socket: On pulley bolt, rotate clockwise. Keep an eye on dipstick. find the point where it basically stops going up, and the point where it looks like it starts going down again. Go back to the middle of that point. That's TDC.
5. Grab a Ruler, mark the Cams in accordance with the E&I marks at the 5 O'Clock and 7 O'Clock areas of that black bit behind the cam gears.

Recheck that you're at TDC. with the dipstick.

6. See if anything on those adjustable cam gears lines up with anything at the 12 O'Clock mark at each one. If not: Remove Cam Cover. Place paper towel bobs into the spark plug holes on the exposed head.

Re-Check that you're at TDC with the Dipstick.

7. Look at the first set of cam lobes either side(egg shaped thingies attached to the metal rod thingy). Are they pointing outwards? They both should be pointing away from each other, and basically be oriented left, right towards either side of the car. (Take your thumbs, and point them towards each other. They should look the OPPOSITE of that.)

Re-Check that you're at TDC with the dipstick. Call a buddy, or figure some way to lock the crank into place. You don't want it moving anymore.

8. Good y/n? If y, remove the paper towel, put the cam cover back on. Don't forget any grounds. If n, you're probably off a tooth on the timing belt; your cam gears are already adjusted to 0 offset, and you shouldn't mess with that until you get the timing dialed in as though the cam gears aren't adjustable. (Basically the cams should be FLATLY pointing outwards). If it's more than 2-3 marks, then your cam belt is off by a tooth, and needs to be re-done.

Re-Check that you're at TDC with the Dipstick

9. At TDC with the Dipstick, cam lobes (egg shaped thingies that sit on the metal rod thingie) pointing outwards flatly? (if you were to draw a line flat across the cam lobes and cams to each other, would they intersect each other in the middle of the top of the egg?) Check the Cam gear markings again. It *SHOULD* Line up with the "I" on the cam gear on the left, and the "E" on the cam gear on the right pointing straight up.

10. Are they pointing straight up? If so, count the number of cam BELT teeth BETWEEN the I and E. (Meaning you don't count anything before that I, and after the E. Is it 20? If so, re-check. The I/E marks are in different places for a reason. Is it still 20? That is bad, and requires the belt to be pulled/redone. Is it 19? If yes, then rejoice, your timing belt is aligned correctly!

10. Remove paper towel, dipstick, replace spark plugs, Anti-Roll-Bar, and make sure you don't have any extra shit laying around that you forgot to put in.

Common Questions:

1. Can I just pull the cam gear that's off and sort it? Ordinarily this is a "yes, if you jam some cardboard under the belt on the crank, and tear back far enough to re-set your tensioner. In your case, I'd say no. You're already torn back that far, may as well do it right. Don't worry, you'll get to use the cardboard trick anyway.

2. Do I need to jam paper towel into the spark plug holes? No, you don't even have to pull the plugs; but if you have good compression, you just made rotating your engine a fucking PITA. If you pull the plugs, don't jam paper towels into the holes, and drop a screw down in the cylinder and forget about it... That is totally your problem.

3. What's with all this measuring, and counting? Can't I just use the cam gears to set this? Yes, yes you can. But remember, those adjustable gears aren't supposed to be a shortcut to PROPERLY setting your car up, they're there to assist with getting a bit more power out of the engine once it's properly tuned. So sure, have fun with it. But don't bitch because you're running a cocked up setup that you band-aided when you could have taken the time to set it up right.

4. I'm looking to do some advanced tweaks and... shut up. You don't even know where it's SUPPOSED to be, let alone where tolerances allow you to put it. Set it up right, or suffer the consequences.

Wow. Very very helpful. Thanks so much for that

You do know there's a manual available for the car, right? Hell, I bought two of em.

Nothing is going to teach you how to timing belt other than reading, watching, AND doing... and fucking it up in the process, and having to re-do it. BP's don't run interference valves, so you can't contact the piston unless you've already done something that warrants an engine replacement (like grind half an inch off the head or something).

But seriously, all the advice in the world won't help you when you don't have access to it. Buy the book. It's orange, and the same shit for the 94-97 that you're asking holds over to pretty much all the 1.8 models, with some minor exceptions.

Hey, I found another shop near Charlotte, and i was referred there by a miata guy. they said that they do a good bit of work on miatas.

Called the shop and told them about the oil leak at the front of the engine and my issues with the offset cam gears (possibly worn belt and messed up timing).

He recommended I just go ahead and do the "60k mile deal" and replace the tensioner pulley, and get a new belt (whatever that one is that is blue and is way tougher) and hell do the seals.

hes calling me back with a price quote in a few minutes

He called me back
578$ for the nice timing belt, water pump, pulleys, and hopefully the new seals which he didnt even mention...that was like the main reason i called. gotta bad oil leak somewhere

450 dollars for the shitty timing belt and water pump and pulleys

:( im just not seeing it. looks like I may have to try and do the shit my self.

It's $100 for the parts, and $350 of fucking you for 1 hour's labor.

Timing belt+Water Pump kit to include cam carrier seals runs near enough to 200 bucks that it makes no difference.

Super Timing Belt: TBH, for 210, you can get a Timing Belt Kit and Water Pump from Flyin Miata. That's what I'd go with.

You have a leak at the front of the engine? You won't be able to tell until you tear the engine back far enough to see where (or where it isn't) coming from... It's probably where the cam cover meets the cam carriers.

Tearing back far enough to do the belt+water pump yourself: You're 6 bolts and some very, very light persuasion with a soft faced hammer away from the carrier seals.

You'll need something that has the approximate inside diameter of the carrier seals, while having a larger than outside radius to drive the carriers home and get a good seal. FM Sell one for 22 bucks, but if you get the size right, you can use nearly anything, including a thick-walled socket. I used an antenna adapter for an old NVIS antenna. You probably don't have access to one of those. But PVC pipe, sockets, etc... all seem to do ok.

Set the cams up to their pointing out mark/TDC, and lock them with two crescent wrenches vice-gripped together. Pull the cam gears, setting each one in a location consistent with ITS location on the head. (Left one, left side, right one, right side...) Or mark them and remember (or take a picture).

Ok, check the base of the cam carrier seals. Do you see what looks like oil, or oil seeping out? If seeping out, there's your problem. If it's just oil, then it's leaking from above. I.E. Valve cover gasket.

Remove the #1 cam carriers, This is where some light persuasion with a soft faced hammer comes in. LIGHTLY tap the carriers from each side (where the bolts go) and when you see it start to shift even a fraction of an inch, grab the carrier with a set of gloves on, and pull up. If it doesn't yield, light, light light tapping with the hammer again, each side, until they do. I don't recommend using pliers or vice grips; if you don't know what you're doing, you can mar the interior surface, which will fuck up your new seal install. If they aren't already I/E stamped, again, place them appropriately. Pull out the old seals. Clean the area out with throttle body/brake cleaner and a soft cloth. Check for any burrs, or areas the cloth wants to hang at. There shouldn't be any.

Inspect your cams for any scoring. It should NOT look like this, and if it does, you have bigger problems.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1392327652

Don't put the new seals in. They don't go in that way.

Grab your Hylomar Blue, and apply a thin layer of it to the bottom of the carrier cap, where it mates with the surface of the head. You can use a very fine smear of high temp silicone, but really, you're supposed to use hylomar blue, IIRC. Replace them in the same locations you pulled them from. Tighten to the recommended torque (manual).

Installing the carrier seals: Lube the carrier seals with a thin smear of new motor oil, and set them in place by hand, against the cam carrier caps. Make sure it's not warped, or trying to jump over the edge. Set your seal installing tool against it, and lightly tap it with the palm of the other hand. Set it straight. Once it seems like your hand isn't working, soft-faced hammer time. LIGHT taps. Even if it only moves a hair at a time, this gives you the chance to notice problems before they become bigger, and adjust your tapping accordingly. Cam seals have a locational tolerance, so don't try to push them all the way back into the head. Again, the Manual can help here.

Replace the Cam gears accordingly, torque to spec, and move onto the water pump/timing belt.

If you're back that far, you can also replace the front main seal, but that one is a lot harder to get out without marring the crank surface. Tons of tutorials on how to do it though.

For the timing belt, I like the idea of counting teeth, marking, and marking the bottom belt gear 180 degrees from the TDC mark. That goes like this:

Get the cams to their TDC position, make sure they're locked.

Remove the crankshaft gear.

Grab a ruler, line up the TDC mark with the center of the bolt hole. Mark the opposite side.

Check your work.

Now double check it.

Ok, put it back, stop playing with it.

Take your new timing belt. Find a flat (non memory curved from packaging) area. Drop some white-out on one of the teeth. Including the mark as 1, count 19 teeth from there, either side. Put a small amount of white-out. Re-count the teeth. 19? Good. Check it again going from the other side. Basically between, and including the white-marked teeth, you should have 19 teeth.

Ok, start at the white mark again. Now, count 63 teeth. Mark that spot. Go to the other white mark, and do it again. Mark that spot. Are they the same? They better be...

Get everything lined back up, but rotate your crank only slightly counterclockwise to TDC. (like if an analog clock was reading 11:59, where the hour hand would be) This compensates for the additional tension of a released tensioner, springing everything into line.

Grab your 63 mark on your new timing belt, and line it up with your 180 off-tdc mark on the crank pulley. Double check it, then jam a piece of cardboard under it to hold it in place.

Run your timing belt over and under and through to the locked in place cam gears, and place it with the marked teeth going just to the right (intake side) and left (exhaust side) of the I&E marks on the cam gears.

Double check that everything is still lined up where you had it before.

Release the KRAKEN... or, the tensioner. And keep an eye on your crank. It should snap right to TDC with the increase of tension. If it doesn't, it's probably one tooth left of it, so get the tensioner out of the way, keep the cams locked into place, pull the cardboard, and the belt from the bottom, and don't kick it so far counterclockwise next time.

FM Kit - $159, includes errything
FM Toolkit - $70, includes ALL THE TOOLS
Doing the job yourself - Priceless

Doing the job yourself when you have the aptitude for the task, experience in similar situations, and a fair amount of time available is indeed rewarding.

Doing it when you don't know what you're doing, have no experience, and need the car to drive you to X the next day...

Well, that's as sad as a tranny getting a hardon and tearing their pantyhose...

Pfft! Tell that to 16 year old me installing a B&M Shift Kit in a 700R4, in a parking lot, in winter, in the rain, at night! Nut up or shut up! I had a crappy photocopied instruction sheet, a mechanic's starter set of Craftsman tools, and I still drove to school the next day after getting virtually no sleep.

It's even more rewarding when you're hopelessly outclassed and under the gun.

Did I just hear "Get off my lawn!"?

I think I just heard "Get off my lawn!"...

When I was your age I had to get off people's lawns uphill, both ways, in the snow! :rofl:

I will end up doing this myself. I have about three weeks and i will be out of college for the summer and probably have a span of about 3-5 days were i can work on it.

The car is actually running fairly decent. And probably had these cam gears like this for a while, i think it can bear a few weeks

Hello
-Took out spark plugs, with my hands turned the crank matching the mark to the "t"
-Did the oil dipstick trick to verify cylinder one is at TDC

Just doing this i have these results on the cam gears and crank pulley



Attachment 114529



Attachment 114530

It appears your exhaust cam is off a tooth, maybe too. I know it's hard to get a good picture of both cams at the same time though, one is always a little off.

Using the crank pulley and T mark is assuming your pulley hasn't slipped, although you need to fix it either way. You'll have the mark on the oil pump body and crank sprocket once you disassemble everything.

I count 19 teeth between marks, which puts your cam gears in correct time relative to each other

What does your timing light say?

You do have a timing light, don't you?

I was aware that the pully is not to be trusted, that is why i used my dip stick to find exactly were the point of tdc was, which looked good at the marks on the pully

That is the next step
Do not have a timing light, or have never used one for that matter. I am happy that they are correct,

now i need to use a timing light to find what to use as base timing for megasquirt. Is that right?
My car is running quite well but i have to use 17-18 degrees of spark advance at 1000 rpms on my timing table to idle decently

You have the 19 teeth between the marks at the top which is correct. The problem I see is with the adjustable cam gears that the lower mark on the exhaust cam does not line up with mark on the black timing plate behind it. I do not know if that is on purpose or not. I have never touched a set of adjustable cam gears so I have no clue how they are supposed to be.

It was just the angle i took the picture from

If the lower "I" mark on the exhaust cam matches the line on the black timing plate you should be good. Could you also get us a picture of how the cams look when you have everything lines up properly? The front cam lobes on the intake cam should be pointing at 9 o'clock, the front cam lobes on the exhaust cam should be pointing at 3 o'clock.

Did not have the valve cover off, did not re-do timing belt or anything, just simply turned the crank pulley with my bare hands until the dip stick was at its highest point. absolutely changed or adjusted nothing.

And i did pop off the oil cap and looked at the exhaust lobe with a flash light. it was laying at its side pointing at 3 o'clock.

So. right now look at the title of this forum. the answer is yes. because the whole time my cam orientation was fine. the picture i took at the firs post was the engine at like tdc of cylinder 3 or something.

i knew NOTHING about timing or cams or anything at the time, research google and youtube helped me check and make sure its right. and you guys