Supertech vs Sealed Power VS855 Valve Springs
 

I've been reading up on valve spring options for my turbo build.

Obviously the Supertech stuff is very popular
(Supertech Valve Springs 1.8 Mazda)

But it seems some people also use Sealed Power VS855:
(Sealed Power Valve Springs VS855 - Free Shipping on Orders Over $99 at Summit Racing)

According to some minimal feedback here, the VS855 can rev to the moon even under relatively high boost and work with stock retainers and keepers:
https://www.miataturbo.net/engine-pe...o-70450/page2/

So my questions is: What risks or drawbacks are there from running $120 Sealed Power springs (with my stock retainers and keepers), compared to $380 "Light Double Spring" Supper Tech setup?

This is my first thread, so go lightly :noob:

I would just go the supertech route and save the trouble.

perhaps my philosophy on modding is a bit self-righteous, but if there is knowledge of the "best" part around, and I'm not factoring cost in the term "best"... then you do what it takes to buy the best part.

I see a lot of guys who say "I don't have the cash for XYZ" and it baffles me that they have these big dreams and want to cut corners, whereas there are also a lot of guys who spend big bucks on something like an overflow tank for their naturally aspirated build and I tend to resonate with them more because they just seem to get it.

Again, it might be completely close-minded to want to always buy the perceived "best" parts but that's just my two cents on it.

Also, there will be droves of people who follow after me in this thread that will be able to shed a more detailed perspective on the pros and cons of both, lots of guys seem to have the spring game down and can tell you the ins-and-outs of what setup will benefit you, but you have to know what power you're shooting for among other things.

Thanks hraday93. I try to learn as much as I can about my options before making a decision.

To be honest, I expected either an insightful discussion, or to be flamed for not searching well enough, but surprisingly it's been quite. :dunno:

There's a non vocal (for fear of backlash from forum sponsors and mods) group of people whom have a major disdain for the supertech valve springs because they take a set and after some use seem to have significantly reduced seat pressure. I never noticed that problem with them in my motor, though I'm not sure I ran them long enough and I also havent measure the seat pressure currently.

Interesting. I guess we'll see what the heavy doubles do for me. Would those people happen to be running stock lifters too? I read some threads like that early on in my "lurking" stage that suggested the stock lifters created untimely wear in some setups.

this concerns me

This thread is relevant to my interests. I have a NB1 head to refresh.

Ditto

Additional information/feedback on VS855 here:

VS-855 valve springs - any long term usage reports ? - MX-5 Miata Forum

Which exact springs are you referring to? Or is it all three options?

Supertech vs Sealed Power VS855 Valve Springs
 

Running ST heavy doubles with custom steel retainers.
Trying to explain the doubts about the Ti retainers (based on race engine failures) felt kind of pointless.
It's better to be a happy shopaholic, ignorance is bliss.

Me 3.

And exactly what backlash is there to be had besides a hate cat and a possible sour look on the street if or when one ever meets these folks?

Just that, its not worth arguing about on the internet over.

Reporting a problematic high performance part isn't worth it? Man, I'm a long way from home on the Mazdaspeed Forums.

Update:
The Sealed Power Valve Springs VS855 are in the car and seemingly working fine for the first 100 miles or so.

No really power/revs have been put through them yet, so will keep you posted.

Well my motor has been running decent. as most know, no boost on it yet. I'm still under 800 miles on the build too. Best believe though if any of the mentioned problems arise, I will happily take one for the team and call them out.

It's not like I get much response to my questions anyways, so getting booted is of little significance if a problem can be fixed for the community. I'd say that should fall on Braineack for doing the right thing in the long run.

I just jumped on those as well. I´m going to run custom grind 10mm lift cams Supertech valves and supermiata solidlifters...do you guys know if those lifters work with stock valve retainers ?

Lifters do not interface with valve retainers. They ride on the top of the valve. You will need shims for the lifters.

Be careful about higher lift cams and non stock springs. You can potentially run into coil bind.

Hm, you always need to be careful when playing with the valve-train. You will not be safe from issues by staying with stock springs (creative misinterpretation).

Valve-train is one of those things that's depending on a little too many parameters to be a candidate for webshop, install and forget (like e.g. rods).
On top of just making things work the perception of "working" is very different.
I have springs that don't float valves even at 10.3k, so it works, but softer springs would be better in the long run since I seldom go past 8k.

You goals should dictate you design. Others choices might be relevant, but you have to get enough info to judge if they are.

Yes you can put it that way. But its even more likely with a super stiff (if stiffness was increased by increasing wire thickness) springs.

Why is that?

because stiffer springs "push" lifter stronger agains camshaft, so it wears quicker. not something I´m worried about as I do 3k Miles a year.

LOL

it doesnt exactly work like that

your post have probably less value than my bad answer. Please explain

If the springs are too light, they will let the valves bounce and slam into the seats which causes a lot of wear and damage.
There is a great thread here somewhere about all the valvetrain issues..

Loose less power in the valvtrain, I'm not boosted and run under regulations, so it's better to do it right.
The soft ST duals could most probably been enough in my case, but as mentioned, don't copy part of a design.

When you have (good enough in your judgement) control of your valve movement, extra springs is just waste.

So.. getting back to this before I order my things for my relatively low-rpm (~7800max) BP6D w 264 cams build, should I just avoid the ST light doubles and just buy the VS855s?

I completely forgot about this thread and had already ordered supertech heavy doubles for my spare head. *ponder ponder*

fwiw I went with the ST singles for 7,800 rpm on my Tomeis.

I'm running the super double heavys. I am also using the OEM 99+ retainers for some reason that forgot about.

So many 8200rpm + moments. Less than 20psi levels though.

Any modification needed to use the stock retainers with the supertech duals? Quite a few failures reported with the ST Ti retainers in other applications. Don't feel like checking whatever I install every 5-10k to see if it's holding up.

ST retainer has a wider center extrusion that tightly holds the inner spring. So snug the spring clips and holds on to it. The stock retainer is smaller and doesnt hold the inner spring and also the flat seat only covers 2/3rds of the spring. It's loose enough that the spring can move sideways around 2mm.

They would bolt up, but I'm not sure if things would get damaged with the inner spring not held in place fully. It might rub or chatter against the outer spring.

ST retainer
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...3fda6db78c.jpg

Oem BP05 retainer
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...820085e270.jpg

Side by side
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...9ad6fc82fd.jpg

Made custom steel retainers for my ST duals, but the cost was about 3x the Ti retainers.
Machine time is not cheap here.

How do the Ti retainers fail. Do they deflect upwards, crack or just wear?

They are a good amount lighter than steel so they are attractive for anyone chasing revs like myself.

The failure I've seen was due to wear, all the way through (only inner spring holding the valve), possibly due to not tight enough so the spring rotates against the retainer wearing the soft Ti.

I've been running the VS855 for several thousand miles without issue. 18psi, 7800rpm.
Over reved once to 8000+, wasn't logging but wasn't that bad of a miss. No issues from that so far. Factory valves, keepers, etc.

If that's the case, maybe a thin washer between the TI and retainer to stop any wear. I was actually thinking of shimming them up a bit tighter, maybe it's not a bad idea to stop them rotating.

Time for a necro-post. Lots of speculation above, but very little experience with the VS-855. Can I get an update from the people using the cheap Volvo springs? I'll buy the ST doubles if I have to, but I'd rather put that money towards a BE oil pump, tires, prostitutes or cocaine. Thanks

I put some in about 4 weeks ago.
its a tired B6
port matched & polished general clean up of ports
Genie headers
272/264 220/215@0.05" cams 10/9 lift
CR10.5:1
MS2
max RPM 7500
running HLA's
spring pressure recommended by manufacturer 66lbs

initial reaction after running cams in again....smoother at low RPM. More vibrations at the top. But it seems to have smoothed out a little over a few weeks and a few high rpm runs.
will not get a chance to dyno it as the engine now needs replacing. But unlikely because of the springs.

that's as much as i can tell you.