Terrible news
 

so im not sure this is the right section but i think it will do.
i have a 1990 miata ive been modifing for about a year. i put all fm suspension hawk break pads a 96 dash and a few other goodies.....i love the car but it seemed to be getting slower and slower latly???
So today im leaving work and its just dead slooooowww....i mean foot to the floor in first gear not going anywhere...so i check the timing and its wayyyyyy retarded.
i took apart the timing and front cover and found what i suspected. the crank key and broken and the crank gear is flopping around on the crank..:( :( :(
as i planned to be turboing this car in less than 2 months now its time to make a chioce.here are the options i see

1.swap in a 1.8L and call it a day and turbo that one
2. swap in a used 1.6 and turbo that (lnc this time)
3. sorce a crank and rebuild the motor i have
4. swap in a mazda speed 1.8 turbo...(this possable?)

what would you all do?

what would you all do with a bud

A buddy of mine with a 1.6 constantly said that going to a 1.8 is a decent step up power-wise, and that a solid N/A 1.8 can be a potent autox engine.

That said, it's really up to you and depends upon your budget.

The mazdaspeed motor might be harder to find.

Option 1

the mazda speed motors are all over ebay for around $2k so if that swaps in easy that would be a decent deal i thought since by the time i buy a 1.8 swap that in and then add a turbo im looking at closer to $3500ish....

If you didn't see the red under the words misspelled.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1357706449

using cell phone no spell check...sorry im not a spelling guru....just a mechanic.

Why on earth would you swap a 96 dash into a 90? The 96 dash is a good 20lbs heavier. Everyone I know does the exact opposite. Swap a 90-93 dash into a 94-05 Miata.

Go with option 1. The msm motor is just a 99 motor with a shitty turbo system.

I could understand putting an NB dash in it since people say those are "nicer" and are actually double din rather than 1.675433456 din like the NA IRRC. But putting in an a 94-97 dash makes no sense.

1) The MSM mirror IS NOT just a 99-00 motor
2) The OP didn't say anything about a NB dash...or did I miss something?

I know they are not identicle but to my knowledge the differences are minute.

I could have sworn the only real differences were the cam and the fact that it is plumbed for turbo lines already. I own one so I would like you to open my eyes if there is something I am missing that actually means anything.

It's the cam, the intake manifold and that Oil Filler cap. I was mostly being an ass. There are differences that make it "not just a 99-00."

Swap in a 1.8 and boost it.

Use the left over money for English classes.

Yer Inglesh iz, Terable.

I lol'd.

Just swap in a regular 1.8. They are $500 complete from local junkyards. Better deals are probably around.

Boneeater Springs, FL, huh? That's about 15 miles from Cape Oral, if I recall.

18psi beat me to it but I'll have a go anyway:

"Terable news.............I ---- spel nd my grmmar is awfull to

And the pistons, and the crank girdle, and differences in the head (cooling jackets), and the oil pan, and ...

First I've heard of this, go on... ?

Stronger pistons? Same rods right? It always sounded NOT worth it for the MSM motor swap to me.

Didn't say they were stronger, I said they were different. BP4W pistons are 9.0:1 CR and MSM are 9.5:1.

Generally speaking, you don't get more power out of an MSM motor compared to the BP4W (you're limited by the rods either way), so it usually does not make sense to pay a premium that is usually demanded for the MSM motor.

pretty sure they're both 9.5
the bp05 is 9.0

You're right... They're 9.5:1. I retract the previous statement. :brain:

The other differences still apply.

Point being....its NOT just a 99-00 motor.

so i have decided to swap in a 1.8 with a new clutch and a ms. As for the dash, Ibought a 96 for $900, and parted it out. my dash had a huge crack all the way down the middle and looked like crap. why not put in a mint one i have sitting in my garage? it looks much better. im not to concerend with the weight added, il take twenty more pounds for a clean interior.

True - but, the other point being that it's still NOT worth the 2k they fetch for them, and you are better off going with a 99-00 motor for cheap and building it.

I'd keep my cracked 90 dash over putting the fugly 94-97 one in. However if you like it, i'd agree the weight isn't a huge deal. Just remove the passenger airbag before you put it in.

To the OP.
If you are prepared to spend 3K or so just buy a bad 1.8 and build it to your liking, makes more sense than a MSM motor any day of the week.
Otherwise, find a decent used 1.8 and boost as is.

We don like your kind round 'ere.

Your spelling...
http://bolttalk.com/attachments/turr...rles-jpg.3095/

Now that's funny cause it true. Funny none the less.

1.8 and MS and you can't go wrong, period.

I wish I had the capital to buy lots of MSX, 1.8s, and Torsen swaps. I could sell package deals at low low prices, $$$$$ and Profit?

I actually did what the OP did with the dash. I swapped in the 94-97 Dash. Honestly I think it looks much nicer and much more modern. Everyone has their preferences and we're not all so worried about 20 pounds. I honestly hate the 1.6 dash. It look and feels cheap to me. But again, that's my opinion. Which I'm entitled to. Just like the OP :)

I just noticed that everyone on MT.net is an English teacher.

No, just the majority of the "valuable" posters here respect the place enough to use proper grammar, spelling, formatting and punctuation, at least to the best of their ability. (run-on sentence?) Those same posters love to ridicule those who do not.

I am personally building a 1.6 lnc. For a few reasons, 1) I already had bought my hotside 2) I just want to see how much power this thing will make 3) it's what the car came with, so I decided to stick with that.

I see a few possibilities in my future if I am not happy with the power output. Do a LS swap and build the motor for NA, lots a compression, cam, head work blah blah blah or do a single turbo LS. I am leaning towards the second option. Boost is just so much fun.

Personally I wouldn't spend any money on a 1.8. If anything other than a 1.6 is getting swapped into my car it will be a LS series engine. I know it takes away from the character of the car ("it's not a Miata," "it has a chevy," "it's has a v8") but I don't really care anymore.

Heretic! Burn him!

You can find a Mazdaspeed miata motor for around $2000. You can have a mazdaspeed miata motor running 210whp with just simple upgrades so it will be a huge step up in power, and probably cheaper than a turbo kit. That is if you are happy with the OEM turbo charger.

You can get a 99-00 motor for less than $1000 easy and buy an artech mani and ebay or used garrett turbo with the additional 1k. Then you can buy all the other parts you were gonna have to buy anyway to get the MSM engine to 210whp and you would be at 250-260hp only limited by the stock bottom end.

I disagree Ryan. All you need to get a mazdaspeed motor to 210whp is and intake, full exhaust, boost controller and o2 mod. There are quite a few motors available too. They will naturally be more expensive than a regular block. However you also have the Mazda oil lines built into the block from the factory. Now they even have flashes for the msm ecu which they haven't had in the beginning.

still stuck with ihi. until it blows i guess

Yes but now you're buying and engine and an ecu. And I dont believe the msm ecu is pnp with the 1990 harness. So either a patch harness, significant rewire, or harness swap would be required and now we're talking about a serious time and money commitment to just get a really really turrable ecu.

Yea I suppose you are right with the wiring. The ecu won't cost you a dime however. And the flashes definitely make it more practical. However I know there have been a few guys on the Mazda-speed forums that have done the swap in a na without any hang ups

The reason the MSM ECU won't cost you a dime is because any of us would be happy to give you one. They are horrible pieces of shit and the only people running them on purpose are stuck with OBDII and don't feel like changing injectors out every year. To swap it into an NA, you would need to put the entire engine harness in and believe me, the ONLY reason to do that is if you simply want a project.

There are plenty of unique things about an MSM but the engine itself isn't one of them. Despite the cool valve cover that say 'Turbo' (+3whp) and a shiny oil cap that says 'Mazdaspeed' (+2whp to offset the weight of the cap), it's a '99 motor with VTCS (fail) instead of VICS (win).

The turbo on my track car has the upgraded wheel and has seen more track time than any IHI I know of. It's cracking pretty badly and I just hope it lasts the season because I don't have the budget for an upgrade this year. I have a stock spare but I'd be giving up 30whp and a bunch of top end. It's not a long term turbo for the track at >250whp. Do the 1.8 but don't bother with MSM parts unless you get them for the same price as the other stuff and skip the IHI turbo altogether.

I can say for first hand experience of swapping in a JDM 1.6L into my car after having crank wobble death and then later putting a 1.8L. Just do the 1.8L swap it is easy and you will be very very happy. It makes the car all around better. Then you will have a better platform to start with the turbo setup. If you are handy with a welder and some metal for making small brackets like the throttle cable bracket. I would suggest buying the FM throttle body adapter and the coil pack adapter and make the rest. Only other thing you will need is the 1.8L block mounts and when you buy one used most of the time they come with the. If no then spend the $200 on the kit it is very very simple swap to do almost to easy.

Well, let me take a stab at this... There are benefits to going with the 1.6, and this is coming from a guy that has a '91 and swapped in a 1.8 out of a 1993 Ford Escort GT.

The main benefit that I can see is the cost of a DIY turbo system. 1.6 turbo system parts seem to be much easier to source, especially on the forums because most people are swapping to 1.8s. There is also a decent cast turbo manifold on eBay for the 1.6 that doesn't cost anything near what a decent manifold runs for a 1.8 (unless you wait for a deal, or course). Well, I guess that's about it... =)

If you do go with option 1 I recommend that you consider the 1993 Ford Escort GT engine. The reasoning is that they are very common, and typically much cheaper than the Miata engine even though they are technically the same. They have the same pulley system as the 1.6, and they also have the ports for turbo oiling and cooling. You will need an intake manifold from a 94-97 Miata, a throttle body adapter from FM, engine mount bosses from a 94-97 Miata, etc. All minor shit. All sensors swap onto the new motor. Another benefit is that the coolant exit on the head is already setup for a coolant re-route...

-Ryan

Plus, look at how badass the Ford Escort GT engine looks in the bay. Not to mention you can freak idiots out with the Ford valve cover...

http://s14.postimage.org/ykbauec1d/2...10583065_o.jpg

Who allowed the thread title to be changed?

That is a travistee...

Ryan L., I've known that the Escort GT engine is almost identical to the PB from miatas and I was considering getting one if my stock 1.8 blew. It just hasn't happened yet so I haven't looked into it. How much is a "Ford" 1.8 vs. a "Mazda" 1.8 and is it bolt-in on a 1.8 car save for the motor mounts you mentioned? (I guess if it was N/A you wouldn't need to worry about intake mani and maybe the throttle body?)

I'm not sure it's worth worrying about. local bp's motors all day for 400-800 bucks. Not sure if it's just cause i live in a good convertible state or not but they seem to be that around the country when i look at car-parts.

If you're replacing a 1.8 motor w/ a 1.8: kia sephia is a dime a dozen and I can pick those up for 100-300 a pop if I feel like transplanting some parts. Not sure if it's like that in other parts of the country... You can look super cool then cause you put a kia motor in your fag car :giggle:

I needed the following from a Miata 94-97 BP:

Intake manifold
Motor mount brackets
Oil pan and oil pickup tube
Exhaust manifold (I used an eBay header)

I bought a new oil pump as well because the Escort pump had a provision for a dipstick and I didn't wanna mess with removing it and plugging the hole it would have left.

Once I had those parts I bought the throttle body adapter and throttle cable bracket from FM and used my 1.6 throttle body. The CAS mounts directly where the distributor is, and I used the thermostat cover from the 1.6 and moved it to the back of my new engine so I could re-use the sensors. You can also use your 1.6 flywheel and clutch without issue. I would also suggest getting rid of the stock coil and switching to COPs or GM LSx series coils.

While you're in there a timing belt and water pump wouldn't hurt and would be cheap.

This should apply to any of the other FWD BP-equipped cars. (Kia, Protege LX, Escort GT, etc.)

-Ryan

It's basically bolt in for a 1.8 car, but you'd have to re-use some of your existing 1.8 parts.

this is not a benefit, nor the truth. Cobbling together a kit from a 1.6L or a 1.8L setup makes no difference. 1.6L parts may be cheaper since the parts are old, worn, and worthless to the seller.

untrue. Honestly, 1.6L turbo parts are harder to find.

decent in this cas is subjective.

The Begi or FM cast manifolds for a 1.6L or a 1.8L are identical in price.


Swapping in a 1.8L from a miata is all minor shit and you're not left with the shitty as hell v-notch belts and the horrible 1.6L alternator. The only benefit I see is having the rear water outlet...the rest seems like more effort than with a regular 1.8L miata swap since you dont have to source additional the IM, mounts, oil pan/pickup, and exhaust. So in the end, it sounds like extra effort/cost...

buy a miata motor, buy the FM kit, install it in a few hours and go about your business...


Honestly, your post is the worst advice I've ever seen given on this forum; I need to start banning people who suggest the 1.6L has benefits. :party:

option 2, i guess i have seen an ad somewhere on miata.net for a 1.6l engine with 199,xxx miles but supposably running good for only $250

I'll sell you a good running 1.6 for $250. Lots of them sitting around our various shops and garages with no purpose.