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Three little broken ARP studs
This is unbelievable. As some of you know I have had an ongoing long-term project that was finally coming to fusion or so I thought but the MSM Miata has other ideas. It’s a 2004 MSM that I have been working on for 7 years. Here the build info:
https://www.miataturbo.net/build-thr...ake-one-75542/ Cliff notes: 2004 Mazdaspeed Engine Bored to 1.9L with fully built bottom end. *Boundary Engineering street/strip oil pump with 3 shims *84mm 8.6:1 Supertech Pistons (most optimal ratio for gasoline) *Wiseco piston rings *Manley forged H-beam connecting rods (further balanced by Abacus) *ARP hardware for rods *ARP head studs *ARP main studs *ACL thrust washer *ACL main bearings *ACL rod bearings *Gates timing belt kit *Supermiata waterpump *OEM oil pan gasket MSPnP for 0405 MSM Super Miata Damper LS2 Coils in waste Spark config Trackspeed Kit with EFR 6758 ARP head studs Stock Head cleaned up with HD double springs. Motor was assembled 2/2018 and has sat indoors with no fluids in it until last month. I got it in the car and added break in oil and turned it over on the starter until I got oil pressure and oil at the turbo. All good. Started messing with MS, got it set up and tried to start and it sounded fine but would not fire. Got no spark. Messed with if for a few days and opened the oil cap to make sure the oil was flowing and noticed a broken ARP had stud. WTF, pulled valve cover to find both front heads studs are broken and laying on the head. See pics. Also noticed the rear exhaust shim has been spit out and was laying on the head. Cam lobe is damaged. Not been a good day. I have contacted ARP and they do not have any answers and asked me to send them all the studs so they could look them over. I pulled the head today and found a 3rd broken Head stud, 2nd one back on the intake side. The head gasket looked normal and so did the deck. All dowels are accounted for. Only thing I saw that was strange is that the ARP lube left residue on the head where the washers sat and it was not centered over the holes. All of them. See in pics. I have verified my torque wrench is correct. They were installed to 65 ft/lbs with supplied lube. Anyone have any explanation for this? I got new studs on way and head going back to machine shop tomorrow to get checked out. I’ll replace the exhaust cam (I believe the MSM one is same as 99-00 heads, correct?) and put it back together but It’s bothering me that I have not found a smoking gun here and I don’t want to do this again. Shoot away with question... https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...31826ac3cf.jpg https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...5220cf121d.jpg https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...0bdea402c3.jpg https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...678bab36a4.jpg https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...d3145497d6.jpg https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...034f910342.jpg https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...901d5afcd4.jpg https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...4380e4fdcf.jpg https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...64e5323134.jpg https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...62957e01b8.jpg |
In your build thread you mentioned sending the studs back to ARP for review. Have you heard anything back?
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Originally Posted by Midtenn
(Post 1594845)
In your build thread you mentioned sending the studs back to ARP for review. Have you heard anything back?
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My first guess would be fake ARP hardware. I would expect good studs would break the head 99/100 times before breaking the stud, and you broke 3 studs. That's crazy.
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Sorry to hear about your issues...
Not to make you feel any better, but even if these were knockoff, crap hardware store 3/8" all thread can handle in the neighborhood of 2000lbs (maybe not safely but...). These have something metallurgically wrong with them. A knockoff company would have to go out of their way to make something this bad. |
Originally Posted by leboeuf
(Post 1594936)
Not to make you feel any better, but even if these were knockoff, crap hardware store 3/8" all thread can handle in the neighborhood of 2000lbs (maybe not safely but...).
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Haha you made me try harder. 12mm bolt at miata head stud pitch at 65ft-lbs lubricated appears to be right at the ultimate yield of the crappiest of A36 steel..... Sooo I'm wrong :P
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I'd love to see a clear, in-focus close up of one or more of the broken ends.
From the shots I've seen, it looks like they simply fractured. Cleanly. |
While trying to suppress the call for torches and pitchforks, where did you acquire the hardware?
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I’m guessing fake ARPs as well.
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Originally Posted by gooflophaze
(Post 1594976)
While trying to suppress the call for torches and pitchforks, where did you acquire the hardware?
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Originally Posted by PaulF
(Post 1594993)
Amazon, per his build thread. They've been getting a bit of a reputation for counterfeit products being sold as genuine thanks to their commingled inventory system.
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I agree with the fake ARP hardware. Seen a similar thing happen with known fake hardware, a similar application as well.
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Fake HID bulbs have been my experience with Amazon.
It's not Amazon themselves. It's the crappy general population that is the problem. Someone buys a crappy Chinese HID copy, it lasts two weeks. They get a real Sylvania bulb from Amazon and send the blown Chinese bulb back. Amazon puts it back in stock thinking it's good... I went to Autozone to get a "Dura-last" DS2 bulb as their supplier was Osram which does not seem to have a huge counterfeit issue. I pulled a blown fake Sylvania out of the first package I bought. It was "in stock" and obviously been returned once. The second one I ordered in was an Osram and it still shines in the Audi A4 S type I installed it in 4 years ago... Since then Sylvania bought Osram (or vice versus) and I no longer have a "safe" brand to hit... All the decent HID bulbs seem to be manufactured in West Germany. I wonder if it was all one factory, in one town, that made the good bulbs for everyone... Back to crappy studs... I've never had a head bolt OR stud break in 250+ motors that I have built. Not a one... Getting three at one time is Mega-ball winner odds. |
What NIST standard did you use to calibrate your torque wrench?
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Originally Posted by technicalninja
(Post 1595003)
Fake HID bulbs have been my experience with Amazon.
It's not Amazon themselves. It's the crappy general population that is the problem. Someone buys a crappy Chinese HID copy, it lasts two weeks. They get a real Sylvania bulb from Amazon and send the blown Chinese bulb back. Amazon puts it back in stock thinking it's good... I went to Autozone to get a "Dura-last" DS2 bulb as their supplier was Osram which does not seem to have a huge counterfeit issue. I pulled a blown fake Sylvania out of the first package I bought. It was "in stock" and obviously been returned once. The second one I ordered in was an Osram and it still shines in the Audi A4 S type I installed it in 4 years ago... Since then Sylvania bought Osram (or vice versus) and I no longer have a "safe" brand to hit... All the decent HID bulbs seem to be manufactured in West Germany. I wonder if it was all one factory, in one town, that made the good bulbs for everyone... Back to crappy studs... I've never had a head bolt OR stud break in 250+ motors that I have built. Not a one... Getting three at one time is Mega-ball winner odds. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osram_Sylvania |
Originally Posted by technicalninja
(Post 1595003)
All the decent HID bulbs seem to be manufactured in West Germany.
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I thought Sylvania was a different company originally. I was wrong.
I learn new (old)stuff all the time... I thought Sylvania had been around since the 50s Wrong again. I didn't know Osram has been making lights for over 100 years either. Thanks for the correction gentlemen... |
Originally Posted by technicalninja
(Post 1595014)
I thought Sylvania was a different company originally. I was wrong.
I learn new (old)stuff all the time... I thought Sylvania had been around since the 50s Wrong again. I didn't know Osram has been making lights for over 100 years either. Thanks for the correction gentlemen... |
Originally Posted by Joe Perez
(Post 1595024)
Also, East and West Germany re-united, the Soviet Union collapsed, there's no more Yugoslavia, and the vice president is a black woman, except that doesn't matter any more because men can be women and vise-versa, and you can also be neither a man nor a woman, or both at the same time, or some other thing entirely.
is that that right song? |
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