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bdohaney 03-11-2011 05:56 PM

Which turbo would best work for what I want to gain?
 
I recently acquired a 1999 10AE Miata with a built engine that is already tuned. It already has upgraded injectors, a Microtech LT-10s EMS, FM exhaust manifold/downpipe/full exhaust, and a crappy T25/T28 chinacharger that was rebuilt when the engine was built up.

I am looking to replace the current crappy Chinacharger with a better turbo that can help me better match what I want.

My goal is 280whp, and would like the turbo to spool up as early as possible.

For the most part, I am currently torn between the GT2860R, GT2860RS with the .64 A/R housing, and the GT2860RS with the .86 A/R housing.

Which of these would best suit my goals?

18psi 03-11-2011 05:57 PM

If you're not looking for much more than 280, the 28rs with .64 should get the job done and provide a very enjoyable curve.

Joe Perez 03-11-2011 06:08 PM

Honest question: why isn't the 2560R listed?

bdohaney 03-11-2011 06:13 PM

Only reason I didn't list the 2560 is I understand that 280whp is at the very edge of what it is capable of.

If I could reasonably get 280whp out of it, I obviously wouldn't object to it either.

Better stated, I guess would be a range... I want to have between 270whp and 295whp, which I am guessing (from what I have read/looked at) would take somewhere around 14-18psi which would be better suited to one of the GT28's...

18psi 03-11-2011 06:13 PM

Won't a 2560 be closed to maxed out at 280 wheel? I know Paul made 300 with one, but thats really not that common.

*edit; OP beat me to it:)

If you might want more later why not go with a 2871 then? Easily capable of 280 and even 350 without sacrificing much lowend, if any.

Gotpsi? 03-11-2011 07:10 PM

I think sav has dyno charts showing the difference between the 2860 and the 71,

hustler 03-11-2011 07:39 PM


Originally Posted by 18psi (Post 700368)
If you're not looking for much more than 280, the 28rs with .64 should get the job done and provide a very enjoyable curve.

Negative, he wants the .86.

Joe Perez 03-11-2011 07:46 PM


Originally Posted by bdohaney (Post 700365)
My goal is 280whp, and would like the turbo to spool up as early as possible.

.

bdohaney 03-11-2011 08:16 PM

So, from what I am seeing here is that I have to really decide what is more important to me... Meeting my whp goals, or spool up minimization goal...

*sigh*

viperormiata 03-11-2011 08:39 PM

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Genui...item230e516c80

Less than 700 bucks and will get you to 280whp easy *With the proper supporting accessories*

Spool characteristics can be found all over this forum. It is a VERY popular turbo.

Nagase 03-11-2011 08:45 PM

Seriously. 2560. There's no reason to go with anything else.

bdohaney 03-11-2011 09:13 PM

Reading the spool data thread, made me remember to mention that I am at almost 5000ft elevation as well... If that makes any difference.

Nagase 03-11-2011 09:52 PM

Awesome. Put on a good 2560R setup, then go to FlyinMiata and they'll dyno you in at 330whp.

bdohaney 03-12-2011 02:40 AM

Ah... So the plot thickens... In reading thread after thread after thread...

I came across the BW EFR turbos... Any thoughts towards going with the BW EFR 6255 or 6258?

I think that either would meet both of my goals...

Nagase 03-12-2011 02:41 AM

The 6255 is useless for Miatas. No better response than the 58. The 6258 is a 450whp turbo, which would meet your 280whp goal.

A massively oversized turbo for your goal is not the best way to get maximum response.

bdohaney 03-12-2011 02:55 AM

Damn.

Really kinda seeming like the whp I want is in a limbo area, at the top edge of a 2560, and at the bottom edge of the GT2871R, GT30R's and the 6258... And it seems not many around here like the 2860RS... It will be a couple weeks-couple months before I can get it anyhow, waiting on my tax refund.

Well, Nagase, seeing that you are in Phoenix, any chance you might know of any good tuners down Tucson way, or any tuners at all that are good with a Microtech LT-10s? I've got nothing down here in Sierra Vista.

Nagase 03-12-2011 02:56 AM

I have a GT2560R that I'm shooting for 320whp on.

With a good setup, 280whp shouldn't be anything, depending on if the dyno is a killer or not.

And no, never looked into tuners. I have megasquirt, I do my own.

bdohaney 03-12-2011 02:56 AM

I wish someone would just start actually producing airfoil bearing turbos...

Would make my decision ridiculously easy then...

bdohaney 03-12-2011 02:58 AM

Great. I think I will probably actually go with the 2560R then... If I feel I need more, I can always sell it later and get something bigger.

What is the real sweet spot for boost on the 2560R?

Nagase 03-12-2011 03:00 AM

Not sure what you mean by sweet spot, but I'm going for ~18.5 psi.

18psi 03-12-2011 04:19 AM

I don't know where you're getting your info from, but 280whp for a 2560 isn't "cake" and 320 isn't "easy".
its a mid 200whp turbo. you're making it sound like the 2871r. which is bullshit.


show me all the plots of an easy 280-300whp on that turbo.

Nagase 03-12-2011 04:26 AM


Originally Posted by 18psi (Post 700512)
I don't know where you're getting your info from, but 280whp for a 2560 isn't "cake" and 320 isn't "easy".
its a mid 200whp turbo. you're making it sound like the 2871r. which is bullshit.


show me all the plots of an easy 280-300whp on that turbo.

Show me all the quotes where I said 320 was easy. All of them.

Oh yeah. There are none. BS on putting words in my mouth.

I'm shooting on a completely optimized setup, to the point of having a manifold designed specifically for my purpose.

On a non-heartbreaking dyno, with a decent IM, NB head, EM, ECU, IC, exhaust, there shouldn't be an issue getting to a 280whp goal. This is as long as you don't have a problem turning up the boost. The map on the turbo maxes at 18.5psi. Paul did 311whp on a 99 head with a lowmount setup. At 17psi.

If you do a search you can find more dynos than you'd wish for 2560's on log manifolds and 12psi putting out 220-250whp. Why? That's what BEGI and FM run. That doesn't mean that's as much power as the turbines can make. Read the compressor chart, it says everything: http://www.himni-racing.com/images/gt2560r_comp_e.jpg

18psi 03-12-2011 04:47 AM

Alright then, lets see:

Originally Posted by Nagase (Post 700415)
Seriously. 2560. There's no reason to go with anything else.

yes there is. more power potential and better topend.

Originally Posted by Nagase (Post 700435)
Awesome. Put on a good 2560R setup, then go to FlyinMiata and they'll dyno you in at 330whp.

not sure if srs

Originally Posted by Nagase (Post 700500)
I have a GT2560R that I'm shooting for 320whp on.

With a good setup, 280whp shouldn't be anything, depending on if the dyno is a killer or not.

And no, never looked into tuners. I have megasquirt, I do my own.

dyno's vary, but unless you're on the most optimistic dyno in the world, you aint hitting an "easy 280whp" unless you're on a nearly maxed out setup

Originally Posted by Nagase (Post 700504)
Not sure what you mean by sweet spot, but I'm going for ~18.5 psi.

which is pretty much the max for this turbo.

Originally Posted by Nagase (Post 700515)
Show me all the quotes where I said 320 was easy. All of them.

Oh yeah. There are none. BS on putting words in my mouth.

I'm shooting on a completely optimized setup, to the point of having a manifold designed specifically for my purpose.

On a non-heartbreaking dyno, with a decent IM, NB head, EM, ECU, IC, exhaust, there shouldn't be an issue getting to a 280whp goal. This is as long as you don't have a problem turning up the boost. The map on the turbo maxes at 18.5psi. Paul did 311whp on a 99 head with a lowmount setup. At 17psi.

If you do a search you can find more dynos than you'd wish for 2560's on log manifolds and 12psi putting out 220-250whp. Why? That's what BEGI and FM run. That doesn't mean that's as much power as the turbines can make. Read the compressor chart, it says everything: http://www.himni-racing.com/images/gt2560r_comp_e.jpg

I'm not putting words into your mouth, but dyno's have a funny way of humbling expectations and exaggerations.
Paul made 300 on a damn good setup and at high (for that turbo) boost.

absurdflow hot parts + all other supporting mods + 2560 at nearly max boost is an "easy" 280whp?


How about you make your EASY 320whp on a 2560 on a mustang then run your mouth.

Nagase 03-12-2011 04:56 AM


Originally Posted by 18psi (Post 700517)
yes there is. more power potential and better topend.

His goal is 280whp. If he wants to make more power than that, I'm not reading his mind. I'm answering the question presented. You're making up benefits that don't exist in what was asked.


Originally Posted by 18psi (Post 700517)
no

Wow, how can I argue with such... well. There's nothing at all here. Moving on. FM dynoed a 2560R at 12psi at 291whp. TWELVE. TWELVE. Oh my god is your ignorance of what FM's dyno does ever showing here. Try reading: http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread...highlight=2560


Originally Posted by 18psi (Post 700517)
dyno's vary, but unless you're on the most optimistic dyno in the world, you aint hitting an "easy 280whp" unless you're on a nearly maxed out setup

Did you completely ignore what I wrote about what setup would be wanted to make this easy? Your argument makes no sense if you've actually read the optimization I suggested for this.


Originally Posted by 18psi (Post 700517)
which is pretty much the max for this turbo.

Obviously you don't know how to read compressor maps.



Originally Posted by 18psi (Post 700517)
I'm not putting words into your mouth dickfuck, but dyno's have a funny way of humbling expectations and exaggerations.
Paul made 300 on a damn good setup and at high (for that turbo) boost.

Your insults are childish. Paul made it on a good setup. Wow. Way to agree with me. Good job there. Almost max boost for the turbo. Yeah. I already said that. Try to keep up.


Originally Posted by 18psi (Post 700517)
absurdflow hot parts + all other supporting mods + 2560 at nearly max boost is an "easy" 280whp?

No, that was a solid 311whp at non-max PSI. So yes, it would be an easy 280... because you just turn down the pressure. That's pretty easy to do.


Originally Posted by 18psi (Post 700517)
How about you make your 320whp then run your mouth.

How about you learn to see the difference between 'running one's mouth' and stating facts? While you're at it, learn what flow converts to for whp. This is basic information.

Less insults. More learning.

18psi 03-12-2011 05:08 AM

LMAO fucking noob prick:laugh:
All of a sudden you're the resident turbo expert?

so paul made 300 on 18psi and fm made 290 on 12 psi?

O RLY?

How about you make some numbers and then talk? Many can read a compressor map and claim to know shit about a turbo. Then they hit the dyno and end up with way less power. WHAT HAPPENED????? hurr durr

Oh and he said he might want 295. Meaning he might want 320....etc.
Meaning he wants headroom.

Now why don't you pull your head out of your own ass and maybe not nutswing the 2560 so hard. Its a great turbo and I am not hating on it by any means, but your exaggerations are just silly.

Nagase 03-12-2011 05:12 AM


Originally Posted by 18psi (Post 700520)
so paul made 300 on 18psi and fm made 290 on 12 psi?

O RLY?

Are you drunk? I mean, this is the only way I would understand this complete lack of reading comprehension. I said that FM's dyno is very "helpful" to making high numbers. This is a known fact. On this forum and m.net. I even linked you to show how high the numbers were.

Wow, I don't know how to be more blunt with explaining this to you.


Originally Posted by 18psi (Post 700520)
How about you make some numbers and then talk? Many can read a compressor map and claim to know shit about a turbo.
And LOL at

:facepalm:

My making numbers or not doesn't make what I say true or false. It just means I have a car that has a certain amount of horsepower.

You're insulting and not doing a single ounce of research. I might as well be arguing with SocalPat right now.

EDIT: This is what one does when one has to add information to a post. Those reading after this will notice that what I quoted and what is showing in 18psi's posts are not matching. They've been edited. The things he said that I didn't touch on or quote were all added.

As far as being a 'noob prick', I don't think that bears a response.

As far as headroom, he gave a range. He wants maximum response. The 2560 will give him the most response in that range. Simple. The next step up requires more throttle, as per Sav's posts about feeding in throttle to spool up the turbo for corner exit.

18psi keeps claiming I said easy somewhere. I didn't. Nor did I say mustang dyno. I specifically excluded 'heartbreak' dynos earlier in the thread, actually, so that doesn't make any sense either.

The 'no' was changed to 'not sure if srs'. Not sure what to say there. FM's dyno is legendarily high. That can be researched here and on m.net.

18psi 03-12-2011 05:16 AM

There's a lot more than just compressor map that dictates what a car will make. You obviously can't grasp that fact.

No amount of condescending posts or petty insults which you've added to every post changes that.

Oh and repeating that I'm insulting you while doing the same is a bitch move. Go take a midol, change the tampon, and come back when you're ready to show me how you made an easy 320whp on a 2560.

Nagase 03-12-2011 05:25 AM


Originally Posted by 18psi (Post 700523)
There's a lot more than just compressor map that dictates what a car will make. You obviously can't grasp that fact.

That doesn't make any sense. I've already said a laundry list of upgrades needed to optimize the turbo's potential flow. Again, you're ignoring that key piece of data that I've not only said previously, but also pointed out the last time you brought this up.


Originally Posted by 18psi (Post 700523)
No amount of condescending posts or petty insults which you've added to every post changes that.

It's condescending because it doesn't make any sense. You're coming across as drunk, and you're obviously not doing any research. Otherwise you'd have been able to verify, for example, what I said about FM's dyno in about 5 minutes.


Originally Posted by 18psi (Post 700523)
Oh and repeating that I'm insulting you while doing the same is a bitch move. Go take a midol, change the tampon, and come back when you're ready to show me how you made an easy 320whp on a 2560.

I'm remaining calm. I really couldn't care less about what you care to say, or how fast you think my car is. Nor did I ever say easy. For the fourth time. It's like talking to a brick wall here. You're repeating the same things I didn't say, over and over again. You're ignoring what I did say, repeatedly.

EDIT: If anyone (OP) is wanting a little more history on FM's dyno, here's 301whp on 11psi on a 2560. If you want to make bragging numbers, go there. http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread...highlight=2560

Doppelgänger 03-12-2011 11:43 AM

Hey 18poundingcocks...the "330whp at FM" is a stab at FM's dyno numbers that have always been questionable. It doesn't mean he is serious about 330rwhp. There has always been a ton of debate at to FM's correction numbers and whatnot. Clearly you are out of the loop on this subject and are taking it too seriously. Go take a protien shot and relax. :giggle:


I'm running the 2560 and have no problem with it. I do plan on turning up the wick to see what I can get out of it at 15-16psi. But remember that things like CR and having VVT will effect rwhp numbers. I know there is a local guy here with a 2560R that made 281rwhp on a local and respectable dyno on a built engine at 9:1 compression. I don't think 280-290rwhp on a 2560R is that hard on a good tune. I would imagine that a different intake manifold and/or some cams would make that much easier.

I'm with Joe and recommend the 2560R as well since you can get decent numbers from it, have earlier spool than the other turbos and not have enough headroom to get carried away and risk blowing your shit up (but then again, look at Jared on his stock block). As much as I would like to have a 2860RS/2871 and say I have a 300rwhp dyno, I know I don't really need it right now and shouldn't be trying to do that on a stock 02 engine without having another one ready to go in.

bdohaney 03-12-2011 01:05 PM

Alrighty. Well, from everything I am seeing, it really comes down mostly to a few things...

1.) Which is more important to me? Making my minimum HP goal, or having a SLIGHTLY earlier spool up time (from all of the spool threads/comparos I saw, the 2860s and 2871s are only losing 300-500 rpm of spool to the 2560s)

2.) Whether I am willing to completely replace everything that I already have (that works fine, but perhaps not optimally, being an FM log manifold and FM downpipe) if necessary to reach my HP goals... Which doing such could drop the spool time on a 2860 or 2871 (or yes even the BW 6258 rated at ~225-400hp)

3.) Whether I am at a level that I could GET the absolute maximum out of a 2560 in order to reach my goals (I did state I am a bit new to this, but trying to learn)

4.) Whether or not I think that I might want some headroom in the future to increase it a bit without having to start over again...

So, I'll have to figure out those things for certain, but I am definitely of a mind right now that I would rather find myself nicely in the middle of, or even closer to the bottom of a compressor map than I would pushed up against the top unable to accomplish my goal without having to replace a large portion of my setup.

All of that puts me back to considering between the GT2860RS, the GT2871R, and the BW EFL 6258 (would really love to see a spool chart or result from somebody with one, especially looking at that compressor map that actually starts at almost the same place as a 2560). Thank you for all of your advice and education though.

bdohaney 03-12-2011 02:30 PM

Ok, scratch the BW EFL... Would take too much to get it to fit in where my current Churbo is sitting. It really looks like it is between the 2860RS and the 2871R...

With me leaning towards the 2860RS...

TurboTim 03-12-2011 03:17 PM

Paul made 304rwhp at 14psi, 311 at 17. This tells you with his setup the 2560 wasn't good for much more than 300. 7hp for 3psi is not where you want to be on a turbo (unless you are turboing a 5hp briggs). Paul's setup was Absurdflow centered/low, 99 head on 94 block, old style begi cast intake mani, 70mm mustang TB, 3" exhaust w/cat & resonator, Megasquirt, 93 octane, dynojet, etc.

I'd love to see 320rwhp out of a 2560 on pump gas but I will guess it is impossible without more rpm and E85 perhaps.

NickC 03-12-2011 04:39 PM

Given, I have NOT looked at the compressor maps and may be grossly oversimplifying, what's wrong with the EFR 6255? It's a T25 flange single scroll 0.64 A/R turbine housing, with a 62mm ~64 trim (49.5mm inducer) compressor wheel and a 55mm turbine compared to the 2560 which is of course a 60mm CW (60 trim) and a 53mm turbine in a 0.64 A/R housing. It's also just a way more baller turbo, lightweight Gamma TiAl turbine and ceramic bearings, seems like it'd work well?

edit- for some reason I was thinking the GT28 turbine was 58mm (probably from all the furious EFR 6258 masturbation...) but it's actually 53.9mm... which means instead of it being a nice "midpoint" maybe the 55mm turbine is a little big? the GT30 turbine is 60mm just for reference...

viperormiata 03-12-2011 04:48 PM


Originally Posted by NickC (Post 700634)
Given, I have NOT looked at the compressor maps and may be grossly oversimplifying, what's wrong with the EFR 6255? It's a T25 flange single scroll 0.64 A/R turbine housing, with a 62mm ~64 trim (49.5mm inducer) compressor wheel and a 55mm turbine compared to the 2560 which is of course a 60mm CW (60 trim) and a 53mm turbine in a 0.64 A/R housing. It's also just a way more baller turbo, lightweight Gamma TiAl turbine and ceramic bearings, seems like it'd work well?

The problem is finding one and shelling out nearly 1500 bucks.

NickC 03-12-2011 04:58 PM


Originally Posted by viperormiata (Post 700638)
The problem is finding one and shelling out nearly 1500 bucks.

Mleh, money/time is trivial to real miata man haha.

Nagase was saying the 6255 was useless though and had no better response than the 6258. I just dont understand why? The 2560 and 2860 have the same size compressor wheels and the 2560 turbine is only .9mm smaller than the 2860 and apparently it's significantly more responsive.

edit- although maybe he was referencing the 0.92 a/r twin scroll 58mm housing as opposed to the 0.64/0.65 a/r single scroll 58mm housing? even so, I just can't see, may be blinded by ignorance?, there not being a significant increase in response using the 0.64/0.65 a/r 55mm setup

18psi 03-12-2011 05:28 PM


Originally Posted by TurboTim (Post 700620)
Paul made 304rwhp at 14psi, 311 at 17. This tells you with his setup the 2560 wasn't good for much more than 300. 7hp for 3psi is not where you want to be on a turbo (unless you are turboing a 5hp briggs). Paul's setup was Absurdflow centered/low, 99 head on 94 block, old style begi cast intake mani, 70mm mustang TB, 3" exhaust w/cat & resonator, Megasquirt, 93 octane, dynojet, etc.

I'd love to see 320rwhp out of a 2560 on pump gas but I will guess it is impossible without more rpm and E85 perhaps.

THANK YOU

Pretty much what I was trying to say before little bitch started crying and posting paragraphs trying to prove his false claims.
In the end, everyone knows a 2560 is a mid 200 whp turbo able to hit 300 at damn near peak pressure/efficiency and not much more can be pushed out of it.

Nagase, I didn't edit jack shit you little bitch, go cry/nutswing elsewhere. If you can't find where you said "easy", I quoted it for you. Wipe the cum out of your eyes and take a look.

Dopple, I may have misunderstood his sarcasm about FM's high reading dyno, sue me, that still doesn't affect any of my other posts about the 2560 and how little bitch is exaggerating and needs to go nutswing elsewhere.

Bottom line: the 2560 is a GREAT turbo as many here have experienced first hand. It does have great response and is well matched for a BP looking for mid 200's power level, even a bit more. What its NOT is a 300whp turbo, and everyone here besides cockmuncher already knows that.

viperormiata 03-12-2011 06:10 PM


Originally Posted by NickC (Post 700642)
Mleh, money/time is trivial to real miata man haha.

Nagase was saying the 6255 was useless though and had no better response than the 6258. I just dont understand why? The 2560 and 2860 have the same size compressor wheels and the 2560 turbine is only .9mm smaller than the 2860 and apparently it's significantly more responsive.

edit- although maybe he was referencing the 0.92 a/r twin scroll 58mm housing as opposed to the 0.64/0.65 a/r single scroll 58mm housing? even so, I just can't see, may be blinded by ignorance?, there not being a significant increase in response using the 0.64/0.65 a/r 55mm setup

The thing is that we don't know how these turbos will react. They are still brand new and no one can report with positive data on how they will respond.

It's unfair to try and compare them to Garrett GT turbos just based on physical size, wheel sizes, etc...because they are built so differently.

I am in the same boat as you, I really, really want to see some results on a B6 and BP. There is a lot riding on these new turbos. Geoff @ Full-Race said, "It will take a act of god to one up these turbos." (not a exact qoute, but you get the idea).

Making a claim of horse power goes is not something you should do until you actually start making near that power. You may get bored OR you may want the boost turned down, you won't know until you get there and start experimenting.

If you could give us a run down of you current setup or what you want to use/build, etc... That would be a serious help.

We are having a serious explosion of miata fabrication recently. People are now running one off setups left and right, instead of the normal off the shelf units. So that will make a big difference in what power you could/would/should make with a given turbocharger.

Good luck and keep us updated.


Originally Posted by 18psi (Post 700648)
Wah wah wah my chinacharger sucks boo hoo

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m...n/bf29979c.gif

LOL @ you calling some one a nutswinger.
Seriously, you need to relax. There was no false information stated/posted (except for the FM dyno, lol, that made me ROFL :giggle:) Plenty of people run off the shelf FM/Begi parts and make 260-285+whp easy, it's a fact.

bdohaney 03-12-2011 06:23 PM

LOL I am not crying about my churbo, just want to (and will shortly be able to) replace it.

Leaning more and more towards the 2871, probably with either the 48 trim or 52 trim and .64 A/R housing...

Should spool well, and will give me a decent bit of room to go bigger should I choose to later do so.

viperormiata 03-12-2011 06:28 PM


Originally Posted by bdohaney (Post 700670)
LOL I am not crying about my churbo, just want to (and will shortly be able to) replace it.

Leaning more and more towards the 2871, probably with either the 48 trim or 52 trim and .64 A/R housing...

Should spool well, and will give me a decent bit of room to go bigger should I choose to later do so.

I was referring to the forum nutswinger.

2871 would be what I would run(if I was sticking with a T2 foot print), just because I KNOW I would get tired of anything less than 300whp.

If you shop around you can find them for right under a grand, it's a good deal for a great turbo and you will have plenty of head room.

bdohaney 03-12-2011 06:44 PM


Originally Posted by viperormiata (Post 700672)
I was referring to the forum nutswinger.

2871 would be what I would run(if I was sticking with a T2 foot print), just because I KNOW I would get tired of anything less than 300whp.

If you shop around you can find them for right under a grand, it's a good deal for a great turbo and you will have plenty of head room.

Yup. That is just about exactly what I was thinking. I think that the 2871 best covers the whole range of power I would want to produce from about 240-350...

So, the next questions are, which trim and which A/R housing? lol

viperormiata 03-12-2011 06:47 PM


Originally Posted by bdohaney (Post 700677)
Yup. That is just about exactly what I was thinking. I think that the 2871 best covers the whole range of power I would want to produce from about 240-350...

So, the next questions are, which trim and which A/R housing? lol

For that power lever, .64 housing. Trims, I have no idea. I'm not knowledgeable enough to give out advice on trims for that turbo. You can find a lot of information about them on here, though. Lots of people run them.

If you have questions about Holset turbos then ask me:bigtu:

bdohaney 03-12-2011 06:48 PM

...Holset turbos? not familiar with them at all.

18psi 03-12-2011 06:59 PM


Originally Posted by viperormiata (Post 700672)
I was referring to the forum nutswinger.

2871 would be what I would run(if I was sticking with a T2 foot print), just because I KNOW I would get tired of anything less than 300whp.

If you shop around you can find them for right under a grand, it's a good deal for a great turbo and you will have plenty of head room.

So wait, I'm a nutswinger for suggesting various other alternatives (and not one in particular)??????
What am I nutswinging off?

Then you go and suggest the same thing I did?

Ok. That makes sense:robert:

viperormiata 03-12-2011 07:16 PM


Originally Posted by bdohaney (Post 700679)
...Holset turbos? not familiar with them at all.

They are turbos that primarily used for diesel truck motors and generators. They are popular in Europe and are starting to become more commonly used over on our turf.

The ones that are considered "car friendly" are the T3 foot print turbos. Most miata owners use T2 for the availability of off the shelf parts.


Originally Posted by 18psi (Post 700682)
So wait, I'm a nutswinger for suggesting various other alternatives (and not one in particular)??????
What am I nutswinging off?Then you go and suggest the same thing I did?
Ok. That makes sense:robert:

Makes perfect sense. OP stated he wanted 280whp with the fastest spool possible. He didn't state anything about headroom until recently.

But, it really comes down to how vague the original question asked really was. Now that we know he has a possibility of wanting around 350hp in the future, the 2871 becomes the obvious choice.

Nagase 03-12-2011 07:42 PM


Originally Posted by bdohaney (Post 700581)
Alrighty. Well, from everything I am seeing, it really comes down mostly to a few things...

1.) Which is more important to me? Making my minimum HP goal, or having a SLIGHTLY earlier spool up time (from all of the spool threads/comparos I saw, the 2860s and 2871s are only losing 300-500 rpm of spool to the 2560s)

2.) Whether I am willing to completely replace everything that I already have (that works fine, but perhaps not optimally, being an FM log manifold and FM downpipe) if necessary to reach my HP goals... Which doing such could drop the spool time on a 2860 or 2871 (or yes even the BW 6258 rated at ~225-400hp)

3.) Whether I am at a level that I could GET the absolute maximum out of a 2560 in order to reach my goals (I did state I am a bit new to this, but trying to learn)

4.) Whether or not I think that I might want some headroom in the future to increase it a bit without having to start over again...

So, I'll have to figure out those things for certain, but I am definitely of a mind right now that I would rather find myself nicely in the middle of, or even closer to the bottom of a compressor map than I would pushed up against the top unable to accomplish my goal without having to replace a large portion of my setup.

All of that puts me back to considering between the GT2860RS, the GT2871R, and the BW EFL 6258 (would really love to see a spool chart or result from somebody with one, especially looking at that compressor map that actually starts at almost the same place as a 2560). Thank you for all of your advice and education though.

If you're in the middle of all that, skip it and go 6258, if you want to do it once, to it right. I have a 2560r, and once I'm ready, I'm going with a 6258. If you go EFR right now, you're ahead of the curve, by quite a bit here. It's really the one to get.


Originally Posted by TurboTim (Post 700620)
Paul made 304rwhp at 14psi, 311 at 17. This tells you with his setup the 2560 wasn't good for much more than 300. 7hp for 3psi is not where you want to be on a turbo (unless you are turboing a 5hp briggs). Paul's setup was Absurdflow centered/low, 99 head on 94 block, old style begi cast intake mani, 70mm mustang TB, 3" exhaust w/cat & resonator, Megasquirt, 93 octane, dynojet, etc.

I'd love to see 320rwhp out of a 2560 on pump gas but I will guess it is impossible without more rpm and E85 perhaps.

Yeah, I'm going to try. If I fail, I fail. I'll have a better IM, better head, better high rpm exhaust manifold, slightly more direct exhaust... but honestly, when comparing 311whp to 320, it's all about going to a 'nice' dyno or not.


Originally Posted by NickC (Post 700634)
Given, I have NOT looked at the compressor maps and may be grossly oversimplifying, what's wrong with the EFR 6255? It's a T25 flange single scroll 0.64 A/R turbine housing, with a 62mm ~64 trim (49.5mm inducer) compressor wheel and a 55mm turbine compared to the 2560 which is of course a 60mm CW (60 trim) and a 53mm turbine in a 0.64 A/R housing. It's also just a way more baller turbo, lightweight Gamma TiAl turbine and ceramic bearings, seems like it'd work well?

edit- for some reason I was thinking the GT28 turbine was 58mm (probably from all the furious EFR 6258 masturbation...) but it's actually 53.9mm... which means instead of it being a nice "midpoint" maybe the 55mm turbine is a little big? the GT30 turbine is 60mm just for reference...

Full Race will hopefully be releasing this data soon, but they've dynoed the entire B1 series of turbos on a 1.8 Miata... and that was part of the reason they dropped the 6255. There's nothing to it over the 6258.


Originally Posted by NickC (Post 700642)
Mleh, money/time is trivial to real miata man haha.

Nagase was saying the 6255 was useless though and had no better response than the 6258. I just dont understand why? The 2560 and 2860 have the same size compressor wheels and the 2560 turbine is only .9mm smaller than the 2860 and apparently it's significantly more responsive.

edit- although maybe he was referencing the 0.92 a/r twin scroll 58mm housing as opposed to the 0.64/0.65 a/r single scroll 58mm housing? even so, I just can't see, may be blinded by ignorance?, there not being a significant increase in response using the 0.64/0.65 a/r 55mm setup

No, I was talking about the size of the compressor wheel. Full race will only sell the single scroll .64 with the B1 line as they've dynoed it to find no benefit of the twin scroll in that size.


Originally Posted by nutswinger (Post 700648)
THANK YOU

Pretty much what I was trying to say before little bitch started crying and posting paragraphs trying to prove his false claims.
In the end, everyone knows a 2560 is a mid 200 whp turbo able to hit 300 at damn near peak pressure/efficiency and not much more can be pushed out of it.

Nagase, I didn't edit jack shit you little bitch, go cry/nutswing elsewhere. If you can't find where you said "easy", I quoted it for you. Wipe the cum out of your eyes and take a look.

Bottom line: the 2560 is a GREAT turbo as many here have experienced first hand. It does have great response and is well matched for a BP looking for mid 200's power level, even a bit more. What its NOT is a 300whp turbo, and everyone here besides cockmuncher already knows that.

I did. I went up and looked... and it was Viperormiata that said it. God you're retarded. And tell Paul it's not a 300whp turbo. Or a 311whp turbo. Just because something isn't cheap doesn't mean it's not possible.


Originally Posted by viperormiata (Post 700411)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Genui...item230e516c80

Less than 700 bucks and will get you to 280whp easy *With the proper supporting accessories*

Spool characteristics can be found all over this forum. It is a VERY popular turbo.


Originally Posted by viperormiata (Post 700690)
They are turbos that primarily used for diesel truck motors and generators. They are popular in Europe and are starting to become more commonly used over on our turf.

The ones that are considered "car friendly" are the T3 foot print turbos. Most miata owners use T2 for the availability of off the shelf parts.



Makes perfect sense. OP stated he wanted 280whp with the fastest spool possible. He didn't state anything about headroom until recently.

But, it really comes down to how vague the original question asked really was. Now that we know he has a possibility of wanting around 350hp in the future, the 2871 becomes the obvious choice.

I'd recommend the 6258, but you know how I am about EFRs, and talking to Geoff at full race has admittedly pumped me about them. :)

miatamike203 03-12-2011 07:43 PM

I must say from what i have found EVOIII 16G was the best bang for buck turbo. I have run the gt2560r its a good turbo but i honestly think the EVOIII is best for a DD car. I made 272 on 12psi then i went build motor and made 336whp on 18psi then went 20psi and made 350whp. Went i would be going down the highway i would have a good solid 8-10psi of boost with just 10-15% throttle. Spool was great for the power the turbo made with a price that cant be beat.

miatamike203 03-12-2011 07:53 PM

Here is a turbo to back my findings and a link so you can see.

http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs276...._7759221_n.jpg

solid line is TQ and the other is HP

https://www.miataturbo.net/dynos-timesheets-21/18psi-336whp-20psi-349whp-47931/

18psi 03-12-2011 08:17 PM

Impressive as hell (as I've told you many times over already lol) and I agree that evo turbos should not be overlooked. Even for a 280whp power goal

JasonC SBB 03-12-2011 08:52 PM

To the OP:

Due to your altitude, you will be running a higher pressure ratio than sea level pukes for the same target boost/power. The minimum turbo for you would be a GT2860RS. The 2560 will be out of its sweet spot at your altitude at 280 whp.

BTW "only 300-500 RPM loss of spool" is a very significant difference in FEEL on the street.

If you are honest about your power goals, then a good rule of thumb for a STREET car is the SMALLEST turbo that meets that goal. If it will spend a lot of time at the track, (at that altitude), you may want a step bigger.

Be realistic about how much street vs track time the car will see. A responsive turbo on the street that makes boost at low RPM, makes for sweet driving machine.

NickC 03-12-2011 09:40 PM


Originally Posted by Nagase (Post 700704)
I

Full Race will hopefully be releasing this data soon, but they've dynoed the entire B1 series of turbos on a 1.8 Miata... and that was part of the reason they dropped the 6255. There's nothing to it over the 6258.

No, I was talking about the size of the compressor wheel. Full race will only sell the single scroll .64 with the B1 line as they've dynoed it to find no benefit of the twin scroll in that size.

Hmmm, interesting. I feel like I was thinking the disco potato turbine was between 55 and 58 at some point. Who knows what I was thinking. Excessive caffeine and 4am turbo googling... :facepalm:

I'm most interested in the response of the turbo, even though in general a more responsive turbo should spool sooner on the dyno, it may not really show up, correct? I feel like I'm getting a bit over concerned, but I'm set on having a responsive turbo and the most power, perfectly balanced to my liking. I want to see exactly what the twin scroll does do though and I have a miata 1.9 not a 1.8 :vash: haha I guess I just won't be satisfied until I can look at some dyno charts and I have more data.

bdohaney 03-13-2011 01:21 AM

lmao @ 4am turbo googling. I have found that this car, and doing research, trying to learn as much as I can as quick as I can is addictive as hell.

miatamike203 03-14-2011 09:07 AM

Yes i can become very addictive, I have had night were i dont go to bed till 6am all because im looking at parts and things i could do to my miata.

bdohaney 03-18-2011 09:03 AM

So, after giving all of it some careful consideration... I have decided just to go with tuning up what I have, seeing where I am HP-wise already, and look at later improving the whole system with a tubular mani feeding into a twinscroll housed EFR 6258, with WMI.

In the meantime... What I was going to spend on the GT2871R and WMI kit... I can spend on a rollcage so that I can start autoX'ing and work on the weakest link of everything on the car... My driving skills.

Nagase 03-18-2011 04:15 PM

There you go. That's a smart miataturbo answer.

Good job OP. /repost


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