The turboz...it be dead and stuff. Let's play "what happened?".
 

So I've been in cars with turbos going bad, I've heard the 'death shrill' and whatnot, but mine wasn't the case at all. I was pulling out of a gas station and goosed it to merge with traffic. Was in 3rd gear at WOT when I heard a "PPPFFFFFFFSSSSSHHHH!". My initial thought was that I popped an intercooler hose (not that I've had a problem..but it happens). So I baby the car home a whole mile and pull into the garage. My initial thought was the turbo downloaded esplode.exe and executed the command....but I also thought it could just be a charge pipe. The answer came when I turned off the car and could hear the turbo spinning down...and the sound of marbles being spun in a can......yup, the bearings were shot. So I pull everything apart, feel some radial play as well as some axial play....and it still spins by hand.

So lastnight I pulled everything off the car and removed the CHRA and compressor housing from the exhaust housing. I'm so glad I was able to leave the turbine housing bolted to the manifold as I've had good luck with the turbo-to-manifold- studs and nuts staying tight since their initial installation. It would be my luck that I would take it apart and start running into problems. Well anyway, I found that the turbine wheel barely made contact with the exhaust housing in one small spot about 1/2" long...not even enough to shine up the contact surface and no damage to the blades. The compressor housing is unknown right now because I can't get the snap-ring off...but that will come soon. I don't see any contact though so I'm assuming it'll be OK as well. I did turn the car over wit hthe oil feed line disconnected and there was oil pressure going to the turbo and I couldn't see any blockage on the feed port of the turbo. The other thing is the plate behind the turbine wheel is loose and spins by hand as well.

Will try to get pics up in a minute.

I'm just a bit surprised by such a sudden failure that doesn't involve frozen bearings or a broken shaft.
So what might cause such a sudden failure?
Has anyone had this happen or seen this happen?

Happened to my old T25 on my DSM. It actually filled about 1/4 of my side mount intercooler with oil before I could pull over. I just chalked it up to 'shit happens'.

Yeah, I got a hold of someone at Diesel Performance and Electric and described it to them. Pretty much "died of old age"...nothing really one thing or another. An oil starvation issue would have resulted in frozen bearings or an esploded shaft. New CHRA will be $480 + tax, it's in stock and I can pick it up because they're local.

If you take the CHRA apart check that all the snap rings are still there. One might have broken. Shit happens.

What size turbo was it?

How old?

That sucks. I wonder how long my turbo will last in a car that gets "raced" monthly?

Have you seen Sav's... :lol:

2560R was installed 2006 IIRC.

It might be another week before I get the new CHRA :(

Did you have water lines attached to it?

Yup. I also made sure to not beat on it when cold, to properly let it cool down after driving hard, kept the oil changed regularly and whatnot to be as nice as possible on the turbo.

So I got the compressor housing off yesterday and found that the wheel had touched the inlet, but only barely. It was such a light touch that all it really did was brush the oil/dirt buildup off the finish of the inlet. Once I cleaned the gunk off the inside, I couldn't even see/feel where it touched. The spot was only 3/4" long anyway...not all the way around.

In retrospect, it seems like it wasn't spooling as fast as it used to over the past few weeks. I was used to seeing a decent amount of boost at 3500-3900 rpms...but I was barely getting 10psi at 4000 lately. That was giving me a clue something wasn't right. So hopefully with the new guts, I'll have everything back to normal. Couple the new turob with the new engine and I really need to get my ass to the dyno for a retune and see how close to 300rwhp I can get :)

Good luck with the turbo rebuild, hopefully it all works shweet when it goes back in.

thats what happened to mine. there was just enough friction to slow the wheel down. spooled late and had less output.

How much boost where you running on it and with what I/C?

All of it, FM fmic.
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:laugh: So that's where my boost went. You stole it!!

I ran from 10psi at first up to 13psi. Next setup will be 14-15psi.

I don't think my turbo failure should have anyone worried about their setups...unless you're running a chinacharger. In that case, just know that it will fail much sooner :giggle:

These 2560's feel really nice at 18 psi. ;)
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I wonder how the connecting rods feel about that. :rofl:

They haven't said anything yet. lol
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Whatchu puttin' down at 18psi?

In for the resurrection.

Will know next weekend.
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So you're going to attempt 300whp on a 2560 and stock motor Dopple?
This should be interesting.
Make sure to post up vids/dynosheets.


And lev you're running 18psi on your 2560 now?
w/i or straight pump?
Is it just me or are people running a WHOLE lot more boost on their stock engines these days? lol mt.net community finally growing balls?

:giggle:

Well...something that might help get me closer to that 300 mark would be one of those phantom squate-top intake manifolds that everyone keeps popping up with :/

Local guy here made 290 on a 2560...though not a stock engine, it was low-compression. Figure I'll be using the same tuner, have higher compression and VVT...I might get pretty close to 300 :dunno:




BTW- I got the turbo back this morning. I thought I would have had it last night but issues popped up. Diesel Performance & Electric came through with the CHRA replacement and was even nice enough to reassemble the turbo for me for all of $515. Great guys. I'd recommend them to anyone getting a turbo built/rebuilt or to order stuff from. Anyway. I picked it up at 9am, made the drive half way across Atlanta to pick up a new exhaust manifold gasket, drove back to the other side of town by 11:30 (120 fucking miles in one morning!!!) and started putting everything back together around 12 noon. I did pick up some new oil/water lines and whatnot for the install. I had the car running by 3pm...without any issues. Mind you guys I had to lift the engine up to get the turbo/manifold off and get the engine back down and into place by myself. Had to install all the new water lines, cut the new oil drain line, install all the fittings on the turbo. As soon as the last bolt was tightened I started the car, changed shirts and drove 40 miles to the airport to pick my GF up.


OMG this new turbo feels sooooo much better. I guess my turbo had been choking up for sometime..but the slow death wasn't really felt. Now I'm getting 4-5 psi at like 2300rpm and response/threshhold is noticable better.

That's awesome. Damn that gradual degradation!

I'm diagnosing a slow to build boost issue right now.


Quick question for you Doppleganger. As your turbo was dying could it still make it to double digits of boost? Lately mine has been getting slower and slower to build boost but will eventually make 14 psi. Just wanted to know that as your turbo was going bad was it also able to produce higher psi?

I was checking the cold side for leaks and I the turbo spins fine. Sometimes if I push on the vanes while spinning by hand there is some drag, but that is sort of an intentionally side loaded test. I've idled the car with the intake pipe off and it spins fine. Is there any real test for the wear and life on the bearings? Could I set the parking brake, load the engine in 1st, build a little boost while the car is not moving and then have someone listen and watch the turbo to see the spin down results. Are there any visual cues to note ?

Yes. I was still able to achieve target boost, but boost threshhold was much slower/higher rpms (instead of 10psi at 3k rpms, it was closer to 4k before it let go). There were no other signs other than a "laggy" threshhold. Even between gears it returned to boost fairly quickly...but not like a fresh turbo. I had tinkered with it maybe 2-3 months before the tailure and all felt well when turning the blades by hand...though I didn't push and turn. Also, there was kind of gut-feeling that something wasn't quite right and the car didn't feel like it was pulling like it should have.

how old is your turbo? How many miles?

Spool information is very useful here. I am running my china 2560 at 14psi, and with a full 3" turboback strait pipe, it's spooled by 4k... not nearly what I was expecting it to. Not only that but it sounds like ass.

Inb4BOOM. Guess I'll have to save up 600 for that genuine 2560...

I don't do a lot of datalogging when things are running like they're supposed to....sooo....yeah. I know I'm getting 14psi well before 4k though.

about 20,000 yankee doodle dandees or up here equiv. of more that that in kilometers

I also have a weld that failed in the wastegate tube of my SGDP right at the turbo flange. Really that should be looked at first. Once I pull the DP I'll better be able to diagnose that crack and the turbo hot side, and I should see how the WG is sealing to the port.

Contact info for diesel performance and electric? Can't find a phone # on their site.

Bah...I always get the name of the place wrong.. it's Turbo Diesel and Electric

Mailing Address
Turbo Diesel & Electric Systems
231 Main Street
Forest Park, GA 30297

Phone Numbers:
Phone: (404) 361-2222
Fax: (404) 361-1701

Ask for JD.

After the car has sat for hours if I pop of the intake tube and spin the shaft under pressure in a vertical and horizontal plane should there be any resistance at all? I never hear the sound of it contacting the housing by hand or when in boost but I do feel some drag when spinning by hand and applying a side load. Since the turbo needs oil pressure how should it feel after sitting for some time should it be like an axle on a bike wheel, free to spin under load in every axis?
I need to get it diagnosed before I take it to far apart so I can have the new turbo (if needed) ready to install.
That's a problem with a DD, can't afford to much down time.