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Old 03-14-2013, 11:26 PM   #1
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Default WAT AM I LOOKING AT HERE?! (seriously)

First and foremost:

*****WARNING**********

Supercharger content ahead.


I got a guy wanting his car tuned. He's some dealership bigshot and got it on a trade in, and it makes a weird sound past 5k. Kinda sounds like a boost leak + belt slip + possibly knock. Definitely loses power when that happens, or at least stop making any more power.

Its a ULTRA clean 10AE with a MP62, big 70mm tb, WA intercooler, and..
..Not sure what EM or band aids its using. I only spent about 10 min with the car. Told him I'd look into it.

Since I don't know prehistoric management setups or band aids, I need your gays' input on what I'm looking at:







The black box (JR timing controller?) has a a DB9 plug on the side of it.
Its got a vacuum line going to it from the tb.
Car still has the maf. So I'm guessing its a weird old piggyback that sprays fuel through extra injectors under boost and pulls timing.

I'll try to get more info from the guy, but he's basically clueless.

The car is ULTRA clean and well kept. Actually felt really healthy too....for a supercharged car that is

Thanks
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Old 03-14-2013, 11:36 PM   #2
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He sent me a list of stuff that came with the car.
Is the black box a JR timing controller?

In which case, what the heck is controlling the 2 secondary injectors? A power card?

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Last edited by 18psi; 03-14-2013 at 11:49 PM.
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Old 03-14-2013, 11:43 PM   #3
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Old 03-14-2013, 11:44 PM   #4
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What a ****-heap.
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Old 03-14-2013, 11:45 PM   #5
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I know. I don't care.

Answer the question lol: WAT is controlling those injectors
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Old 03-14-2013, 11:47 PM   #6
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How the hell are they held in?
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Old 03-14-2013, 11:49 PM   #7
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There's screwed in and jb welded or something.
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Old 03-14-2013, 11:57 PM   #8
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NVM I think I found out exactly what it is.

Looks like a Moss MP62 kit
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Old 03-15-2013, 12:02 AM   #9
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upgraded tensioner?
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Old 03-15-2013, 12:12 AM   #10
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Probably. This thing is done right (aside from the obvious )

My biggest question really is what's controlling the injectors. Power card? And if so, where would I normally look for one? Under the dash by the ecu? Its not in the glovebox like I was hoping
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Old 03-15-2013, 12:16 AM   #11
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I am having a flashback to a SoCal car-meet circa 2002'ish... methinks BRP hotside kit and an ELF to control the 2 injectors.

See if you can find the ELF... apparently they were enormous pieces of utter dogshit.


From an old M.NET post I found:

The ELF comes with the tunable pots (P1, P2, P3 and P4) already preset with what we have found to be the best settings on the dyno. These pots have the following functions:

P1 - Sets the psi at which the ELF begins to add fuel. The range on this pot is from 0 to 1 psi. Setting the pot at a lower setting will give a richer fuel mixture at low engine rpm.

P2 - Sets the amount of fuel for the ELF to begin adding. The range on this pot is from 0 to 2 milliseconds (ms). This means how much longer the fuel injector is held open over stock. This pot has a similar effect as P1 except it also acts as a sort of “accelerator pump”. A higher pot setting means a larger amount of fuel is added. Set the pot just high enough to remove any detection of lean tip-in. Lean tip-in is a condition in which the a/f ratio goes lean when the throttle is suddenly opened.

P3 - This is the most important pot for setting the engine for maximum performance. This pot sets the maximum amount of fuel that will be added by the ELF at high engine rpm. It also determines the rate at which fuel is added at increasing boost. The range on this pot is from 2.1 to 6.5 ms. A higher pot
setting will give a richer fuel mixture at full power and high rpm. This pot is best set on a dyno with a
wideband a/f meter. The best a/f mixture on supercharged setups is about 12-12.5:1.
P4 - Sets the psi at which the O2 clamp is activated. The range on this pot is from 0 to –1 psi (i.e. vacuum). The O2 clamp sends a signal to the factory ECU that the fuel mixture is stoich when it is activated. This prevents the stock ECU from trying to pull out fuel during part throttle to full throttle transitions, when the ELF is trying to add fuel. The drawback in using the O2 clamp is fuel consumption will be increased and sometimes the full mixture will be too rich. We have found supercharged setups work
best with the O2 clamp disconnected.
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Old 03-15-2013, 12:23 AM   #12
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Oh snap, thanks Sam.

I guess I just need to poke around the car more and find the stupid thing or trace the wiring going to the injectors (which isn't that easy cause its all electric taped/heat shrunk to make everything clean and tidy)
Not my car, nothing sticks out or looks outa place, so I don't really wanna tear stuff up if I can at least guesstimate where this thing is typically mounted.
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Old 03-15-2013, 12:29 AM   #13
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Based on the list posted above, the (parenthesis) around the (not the crappy M45) (and the stray period) (in the middle of. a sentence) threw me off but it does appear to have a p-p-powercard.
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Old 03-15-2013, 12:32 AM   #14
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I also read once that the powercard should be under the dash near the ECU.
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Old 03-15-2013, 12:33 AM   #15
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Is that thing running a water to air intercooler with no water lines run to it? Pointless? That aside good luck with the rats nest in there.
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Old 03-15-2013, 12:42 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TorqueZombie View Post
Is that thing running a water to air intercooler with no water lines run to it?
The water lines should be on the underside of the intercooler.


Quote:
Originally Posted by samnavy View Post
ELF to control the 2 injectors.
I believe that the ELF was only a pulse-stretcher, like the Voodoo box.

The PPPowercards are capable of both pulse-stretching (for the main injectors) plus driving additional injectors. Two separate PPPowerCards are typically used in this application- one on the mains, one on the aux injectors.
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Old 03-15-2013, 01:13 AM   #17
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Yeah the lines "should" be on the bottom. Like


I just looks like a water line connection on top there.


Maybe alternate mounting point? Figured I'd throw it out there.
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Old 03-15-2013, 02:00 AM   #18
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Air bleed?
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Old 03-15-2013, 02:29 AM   #19
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Blow hole?


Is this the reservoir for the intercooler?


Sorry I can't help with the electronics side of things. Just trying to figure out the hard parts in there.
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Old 03-15-2013, 02:37 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TorqueZombie View Post
Is this the reservoir for the intercooler?
Technically it's the coolant overflow tank for the radiator. In normal operation, however, the coolant in that tank is not actively heated by the radiator, so many air/water intercooler systems utilize it as a coolant source to avoid the need for a separate tank dedicated to the intercooler.


TL;DR: Yes, it is.


Sidebar:

When I was in college at UF, there was a sleazy bar just north of the campus called the Purple Porpoise, and just behind the Porpoise was a little club called The Blowhole.

Use your imagination.
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