Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.
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Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats. (https://www.miataturbo.net/)
-   Engine Performance (https://www.miataturbo.net/engine-performance-56/)
-   -   Why aren't miata engines so good for all-motor power? (https://www.miataturbo.net/engine-performance-56/why-arent-miata-engines-so-good-all-motor-power-98258/)

concealer404 10-08-2018 10:59 AM
80s tech is even a stretch....

18psi 10-08-2018 11:01 AM
why isn't a t25 as good as an EFR6258?

concealer404 10-08-2018 11:02 AM
Why isn't one horse as strong as hundreds of them?

stratosteve 10-08-2018 11:15 AM
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...6e36b37694.jpg


Obviously you guys havent tried the tornado on your n/a builds. This was engineered in a wind tunnel! Reap the rewards of whirling air no matter how small your ports.

andyfloyd 10-08-2018 11:19 AM
Originally Posted by stratosteve (Post 1505434)
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...6e36b37694.jpg


Obviously you guys havent tried the tornado on your n/a builds. This was engineered in a wind tunnel! Reap the rewards of whirling air no matter how small your ports.
When I worked at Autozone many moons ago we sold those LMAO.

18psi 10-08-2018 11:21 AM
Originally Posted by concealer404 (Post 1505432)
Why isn't one horse as strong as hundreds of them?
Why isn't donkey as stronk as ox?

Joe Perez 10-08-2018 11:52 AM
Originally Posted by 18psi (Post 1505438)
Why isn't donkey as strong as ox?
Bad port design and low static compression.

Savington 10-08-2018 12:00 PM
Originally Posted by Joe Perez (Post 1505420)
I'm not disagreeing that the port design in the Mazda BP-series heads is sub-optimal, but those photos seem disingenuous to me.
Ehh...

Originally Posted by Full_Tilt_Boogie (Post 1505426)
I noticed the same thing. It definitely makes the BP ports look smaller than they are. The shape is very obviously worse though.
...exactly. The size of the port is not actually of all that much consequence. Bigger ports mean less velocity, which means less low-end torque, even if the flow numbers are the same. The port design is what those photos are showing. The BP's short side radius is laughable. When a pro ports a BP head, they can't even touch the ceiling of the port, because literally all they can do is make it worse. The B16 port looks like a factory race head, just like all of Honda's heads do.

sixshooter 10-08-2018 01:41 PM
Originally Posted by stratosteve (Post 1505434)
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...6e36b37694.jpg


Obviously you guys havent tried the tornado on your n/a builds. This was engineered in a wind tunnel! Reap the rewards of whirling air no matter how small your ports.
Because every car performs better with an inlet restriction!

stratosteve 10-08-2018 02:19 PM
What part of vortex dont you understand? Jeez :eek5:

18psi 10-08-2018 02:39 PM
who wants their air STRAIGHT anyway?

stratosteve 10-08-2018 02:41 PM
Right

Marioshi 10-08-2018 02:43 PM
Originally Posted by 18psi (Post 1505472)
who wants their air STRAIGHT anyway?
GAY air has more fun!

burdickjp 10-08-2018 02:54 PM
Originally Posted by Savington (Post 1505445)
When a pro ports a BP head, they can't even touch the ceiling of the port, because literally all they can do is make it worse. The B16 port looks like a factory race head, just like all of Honda's heads do.
My initial impression after pulling a silicone casting of the intake port was the opposite: leave the floor and work the ceiling.
Have somewhere you can point me to talking more about this?

emilio700 10-08-2018 03:13 PM
Originally Posted by burdickjp (Post 1505478)
My initial impression after pulling a silicone casting of the intake port was the opposite: leave the floor and work the ceiling.
Have somewhere you can point me to talking more about this?
Port a head and stick it on a Dyno. That's what Andrew, myself and a few others have done for the last decade or so. Bowl blending doesn't mean port shaping in my view. That's just correcting for low cost manufacturing processes. Filling in the short side radius time-tested approach to low port angle heads. In another life, we did that to 2.0L Pinto heads.

sometorque 10-08-2018 03:16 PM
Originally Posted by 18psi (Post 1505472)
who wants their air STRAIGHT anyway?
it's 2018. We need to let the air choose it's orientation.

Savington 10-08-2018 03:16 PM
Originally Posted by burdickjp (Post 1505478)
My initial impression after pulling a silicone casting of the intake port was the opposite: leave the floor and work the ceiling.
Have somewhere you can point me to talking more about this?
Google "short side radius"

Or

mondello.com - Home

18psi 10-08-2018 03:21 PM
Originally Posted by sometorque (Post 1505485)
it's 2018. We need to let the air choose it's orientation.
unnatural aspirations

burdickjp 10-08-2018 03:31 PM
Originally Posted by emilio700 (Post 1505484)
Filling in the short side radius time-tested approach to low port angle heads.
I took a casting of a VVT head and then laser scanned the casting. Here it is: https://a360.co/2JKtHkp
Rounding out the flat roof from the injector pocket through to the bowl looks to me like one way to achieve the appropriate change in cross section through the length of the port.

Even with filling the floor as an option I didn't see the shape up top as being good. It doesn't look like it has an appropriate change in cross section through the length of the port.

Twibs415 10-08-2018 03:59 PM
Just to make some things crystal clear here.. The port roof is where the guide protrudes out of, and the floor is where the short turn radius is.

Id never touch the floor with a carbide cutter because the short turn is so bad


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