DIY Tubular Subframe Discussion and Builds
01-04-2018, 01:36 PM
#61
$600 for one without mounts is the biggest rip off i have ever seen. $1200 with mounts is just stupid. literally cost me about $100 in materials and about three hours to make mine. so yeah V8 Roadsters is a F#@*ing joke. even if i decided to use 4130 instead of 1020 steel it would only be about $150 in materials.
wow way to look sarcastic and unintelligent. maybe try looking at how much materials cost, the machine time to make the parts and labor needed.
I used a old haas vf3 mill to make all my tabs. took less than 30 minutes ti cut out all my tabs from a single sheet of 1/8" 1020
then cut and bent the 1" x .120" wall tube in my bender which took about 45 minutes "this also includes cutting and bending the 1.25" x .120" wall front cross bar for the rack to mount aswell
the tube for the upper control arm i just bought a steel tube and welded in two slugs with a hole drilled in them for the upper control arm bolt add 20 minutes
the rest of the square tube and 1.25" tube going to the upper frame mounts are just saw cut. add 20 minutes
.
then welding, i could tig them if the customer wants but that would cost extra. I just tossed all the parts in the jig i made and welded the whole thing together in about an hour.
that comes out to about 2.9 hours. so yeah about 3 hours worth of work. and if i was charging what i charge customers for work that would be 60/hr for labor (my labor includes the machine time) that would be $186 and add $100 for material "which included the cost of the jig mind you" that is $286 just for me to make it.
So yeah V8 roadsters is kinda joke. sorry for calling you out but paying a sh*t ton of money for something that isnt worth a lot of money is kinda dumb. and people think that it worth it because they are the only ones who make it. but look at mustang or camaro K members. they are like $350-$400.
Iv worked in manufacturing for a while and went to school for Machining and welding and now am one semester from my mechanical engineering degree. So i would say i kinda know what im talking about with this stuff.
I used a old haas vf3 mill to make all my tabs. took less than 30 minutes ti cut out all my tabs from a single sheet of 1/8" 1020
then cut and bent the 1" x .120" wall tube in my bender which took about 45 minutes "this also includes cutting and bending the 1.25" x .120" wall front cross bar for the rack to mount aswell
the tube for the upper control arm i just bought a steel tube and welded in two slugs with a hole drilled in them for the upper control arm bolt add 20 minutes
the rest of the square tube and 1.25" tube going to the upper frame mounts are just saw cut. add 20 minutes
.
then welding, i could tig them if the customer wants but that would cost extra. I just tossed all the parts in the jig i made and welded the whole thing together in about an hour.
that comes out to about 2.9 hours. so yeah about 3 hours worth of work. and if i was charging what i charge customers for work that would be 60/hr for labor (my labor includes the machine time) that would be $186 and add $100 for material "which included the cost of the jig mind you" that is $286 just for me to make it.
So yeah V8 roadsters is kinda joke. sorry for calling you out but paying a sh*t ton of money for something that isnt worth a lot of money is kinda dumb. and people think that it worth it because they are the only ones who make it. but look at mustang or camaro K members. they are like $350-$400.
Iv worked in manufacturing for a while and went to school for Machining and welding and now am one semester from my mechanical engineering degree. So i would say i kinda know what im talking about with this stuff.
Hey, good luck. You are going to need it. It takes more than fabrications skills to get anywhere.
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01-04-2018, 01:58 PM
#62
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 91
Total Cats: -6
You talk that kind of **** about someone we know and respect and you wonder why you are getting heat from us. Then you tell an admin how unintelligent he is after spewing unintelligent bullshit.
Hey, good luck. You are going to need it. It takes more than fabrications skills to get anywhere.
Hey, good luck. You are going to need it. It takes more than fabrications skills to get anywhere.
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01-04-2018, 05:33 PM
#67
Newb
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: ohio
Posts: 1
Total Cats: -1
They banned me so if you guys want to send me dick pictures and sign me up for all sorts of lurid spam email you can do that at Jacksonracingengines@hotmail.com
or find me on instagram @hellagay
[Edited for pleasure.]
or find me on instagram @hellagay
[Edited for pleasure.]
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01-04-2018, 05:43 PM
#68
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iTrader: (12)
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 20,650
Total Cats: 3,011
He wasn't even paying the buck twenty-five it cost per month to be a supporting member. And he created a second to bogus account because he couldn't stand not to be here. Obviously he needs us more than we need him. And I haven't even banned him. I left it to the discretion of others.
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01-04-2018, 09:10 PM
#72
Moderator
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Location: Tampa, Florida
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But seriously, probably a decent kid who just doesn't know enough to shut up in someone else's house. It's a useful realization to know one's place.
Last edited by sixshooter; 01-05-2018 at 07:06 AM.
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01-05-2018, 11:08 AM
#73
Newb
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 2
Total Cats: 0
Hopefully this thing calms down, it’s nice to see some one do something different. Not every one likes to be like every one else. This young guy has done a good job and is the kinda guy the community needs. There is always a place in the market for cheap middle high. Honestly I am kinda surprised there has not been a stock motor tubular k member after all these years in the 400 to 500 range.
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01-05-2018, 11:37 AM
#74
Newb
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 1
Total Cats: 2
I was first to put an LS1 into a Miata nearly two decades ago. I shared my work under the user name "LS1Bound" on miata.net. This young man took the time to share his work and his knowledge. Moreover, it's quality work and demonstrates not just knowledge, but also talent.
I disagree that "he needs" the forum more than "it needs" him. I found his post to be one of the BEST posts that I've seen on this conversion in almost 20 years. His passion is clearly evident and desire to share his knowledge, obviously sincere. Moreover, I share his disgust at the cost of available subframes for this conversion. I've owned a V8 Miata for almost 2 decades. It is sheer exhilaration to drive.
It's unfortunate the cost of the conversion is so ridiculous. He simply stated what all of think.
While I think an admonishment to remain more respectful may have been warranted, banning him isn't.
A forum is a place where like minded people come together to share ideas and opinions. Diversity or thought, unless abusive, should not be discouraged.
I disagree that "he needs" the forum more than "it needs" him. I found his post to be one of the BEST posts that I've seen on this conversion in almost 20 years. His passion is clearly evident and desire to share his knowledge, obviously sincere. Moreover, I share his disgust at the cost of available subframes for this conversion. I've owned a V8 Miata for almost 2 decades. It is sheer exhilaration to drive.
It's unfortunate the cost of the conversion is so ridiculous. He simply stated what all of think.
While I think an admonishment to remain more respectful may have been warranted, banning him isn't.
A forum is a place where like minded people come together to share ideas and opinions. Diversity or thought, unless abusive, should not be discouraged.
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01-08-2018, 03:12 PM
#75
Moderator
iTrader: (12)
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 20,650
Total Cats: 3,011
I was first to put an LS1 into a Miata nearly two decades ago. I shared my work under the user name "LS1Bound" on miata.net. This young man took the time to share his work and his knowledge. Moreover, it's quality work and demonstrates not just knowledge, but also talent.
I disagree that "he needs" the forum more than "it needs" him. I found his post to be one of the BEST posts that I've seen on this conversion in almost 20 years. His passion is clearly evident and desire to share his knowledge, obviously sincere. Moreover, I share his disgust at the cost of available subframes for this conversion. I've owned a V8 Miata for almost 2 decades. It is sheer exhilaration to drive.
It's unfortunate the cost of the conversion is so ridiculous. He simply stated what all of think.
While I think an admonishment to remain more respectful may have been warranted, banning him isn't.
A forum is a place where like minded people come together to share ideas and opinions. Diversity or thought, unless abusive, should not be discouraged.
I disagree that "he needs" the forum more than "it needs" him. I found his post to be one of the BEST posts that I've seen on this conversion in almost 20 years. His passion is clearly evident and desire to share his knowledge, obviously sincere. Moreover, I share his disgust at the cost of available subframes for this conversion. I've owned a V8 Miata for almost 2 decades. It is sheer exhilaration to drive.
It's unfortunate the cost of the conversion is so ridiculous. He simply stated what all of think.
While I think an admonishment to remain more respectful may have been warranted, banning him isn't.
A forum is a place where like minded people come together to share ideas and opinions. Diversity or thought, unless abusive, should not be discouraged.
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01-08-2018, 05:56 PM
#76
Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 196
Total Cats: 14
The cost of conversions may be out of hand, but this isn't the part to complain about. In my mind he actually laid out why this part goes for $800. He stated $100 in materials and a 3 hours of labor. Assuming that's a minimum of ~$300 in materials and labor (receiving, cutting, scrap, packaging, shipping), This would be a $1200 part where I work, and we build a ton more of a given widget than any Miata shop will, so our overhead, insurance, equipment, non-recoverable engineering, marketing, e-commerce, etc are all a lot lower per unit than Miata sub frames will ever be.
It's awesome to have people passionate about these things, and adding to the general knowledge. The first couple pages of this thread are great, and his parts are inspiring. They also apparently reduce the new parts needed for a V8 swap. That said, setting the expectation for commercial parts at what hobby parts cost are isn't a productive conversation, especially when trying to ignore the difference.
It's awesome to have people passionate about these things, and adding to the general knowledge. The first couple pages of this thread are great, and his parts are inspiring. They also apparently reduce the new parts needed for a V8 swap. That said, setting the expectation for commercial parts at what hobby parts cost are isn't a productive conversation, especially when trying to ignore the difference.
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Zaphod
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