Wanna build some nb tophats
03-10-2008, 07:14 PM
#1
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Wanna build some nb tophats
I want to make some tophats like mxv did for my nb springs.
Just wondering how I should go about it. Like what material to use (alum,steel,stainless), they seem pretty simple to construct.
Am I missing something? Plate with studs and ring to hold the springs, cylinder big enough to slide the shock in alittle bit, top piece for cylinder tip mount the shock, some urethane from some endlinks or something to cushion the shock...Simple enough right?
Just wondering how I should go about it. Like what material to use (alum,steel,stainless), they seem pretty simple to construct.
Am I missing something? Plate with studs and ring to hold the springs, cylinder big enough to slide the shock in alittle bit, top piece for cylinder tip mount the shock, some urethane from some endlinks or something to cushion the shock...Simple enough right?
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03-10-2008, 08:56 PM
#4
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+1. With FCM, you're not just buying hardware, you're buying experience. I had FCM do a set of Bilsteins for me (along with NB hats and bumpstops) nearly a year ago. Since then, Shaikh (the owner) has called me several times out of the clear blue just to say hi, see how everything was going, and make sure I was still happy with the setup. That is service. 
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03-10-2008, 09:40 PM
#5
This works too for down and dirty - that's about 7/8" increase. Worked fine in a racer for numerous races. Doesn't get cheaper or easier, just burn the rubber out and weld together. 
Of course I took the easy way out and bought some from ISC for $35 ea. - more travel and less time.
Of course I took the easy way out and bought some from ISC for $35 ea. - more travel and less time.
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03-10-2008, 09:46 PM
#6
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Why pay someone for something you can make yourself for wayyyy cheaper, not to mention shipping up here sucks anddd I have to be cheap now having bought my first home.
Mild steel would just be to easy, I''m thinking about weigt savings aswell as this car is mostly for tracking.
I wonder if alum would be strong enough as it wouldn't be billet like Fm's mounts.
Mild steel would just be to easy, I''m thinking about weigt savings aswell as this car is mostly for tracking.
I wonder if alum would be strong enough as it wouldn't be billet like Fm's mounts.
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03-11-2008, 10:04 AM
#9
Yeah, I thought a house was expensive... then I got two kids in daycare. 
It really is time or money or none.Those ISC units are essentially what you're considering building. Simple project - steel "pipe" with a drilled cap, on a flange and two studs.
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03-11-2008, 10:10 AM
#10
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Because the "to do" list on your car looks like a book and you have little free time. So I pick the things I want to do and spend money on the other stuff. Yeah, I thought a house was expensive... then I got two kids in daycare. It really is time or money or none.
Those ISC units are essentially what you're considering building. Simple project - steel "pipe" with a drilled cap, on a flange and two studs.
Yeah, I thought a house was expensive... then I got two kids in daycare. It really is time or money or none.Those ISC units are essentially what you're considering building. Simple project - steel "pipe" with a drilled cap, on a flange and two studs.
BTW where can you get those??? Cause for 35 a pop I could pick up a complete set instead of just doing the rears.
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03-11-2008, 10:37 AM
#11
If you hold off these are in the workings....right now there in development for Tein Coilovers (as they accept the entire shock body) but we have plans to modifiy some numbers to work with shock/spring setups. They are a 1pc design now (have a prototype but no photos yet; will take some soon) made of 6061 Aluminum, feature Aurora teflon lined spherical bearings, and will include new bump stops.
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03-11-2008, 10:55 AM
#13
$35/each is a gift. That's so cheap I can't imagine bothering to do it yourself unless that's part of the fun. I'm all for doing stuff on the cheap, but at some point your time is worth $$$ too. And honstly would you trust your own welding for a suspension part? I know I wouldn't trust your welding.
Where did you buy a house?
Where did you buy a house?
Why pay someone for something you can make yourself for wayyyy cheaper, not to mention shipping up here sucks anddd I have to be cheap now having bought my first home.
Mild steel would just be to easy, I''m thinking about weigt savings aswell as this car is mostly for tracking.
I wonder if alum would be strong enough as it wouldn't be billet like Fm's mounts.
Mild steel would just be to easy, I''m thinking about weigt savings aswell as this car is mostly for tracking.
I wonder if alum would be strong enough as it wouldn't be billet like Fm's mounts.
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03-11-2008, 11:12 AM
#14
That was my thinking- I could be driving my car rather than making these.
I'm not saying those ISC units are "proper" mounts - but because the Miata shock experiences so little movement (pivoting) at the top mount, it's hard to justify the cost of a "proper" mount for most.
Based on that drawing, those TEINs aren't "proper" either. The upper spring seat should rotate with the shock (rod) at the upper mount point. The pic below demonstrates the concept. These were custom built using a lot of Bilstein parts - shortened to work with lower ride height in my NB.
I'm not saying those ISC units are "proper" mounts - but because the Miata shock experiences so little movement (pivoting) at the top mount, it's hard to justify the cost of a "proper" mount for most.
Based on that drawing, those TEINs aren't "proper" either. The upper spring seat should rotate with the shock (rod) at the upper mount point. The pic below demonstrates the concept. These were custom built using a lot of Bilstein parts - shortened to work with lower ride height in my NB.
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03-11-2008, 11:18 AM
#16
Don't have an exact price at the moment as everything hasn't been finalized but about 100 more per hat then ISC's. So $135ea but I hope to hit lower than that. Would like to be around $200pr but we'll see. As I said not the cheapest method but there an engineered part not a rigged peice what so ever.
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On another note the issue with burning out the rubber and welding the stock hat is you NEED a stiff rubber bushing or poly bushing between the hat and washer/nut. This keeps all the pressure off the seals, etc. inside the shock; same method Mazda used on the hats just releaving pressure in a different spot.
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On another note the issue with burning out the rubber and welding the stock hat is you NEED a stiff rubber bushing or poly bushing between the hat and washer/nut. This keeps all the pressure off the seals, etc. inside the shock; same method Mazda used on the hats just releaving pressure in a different spot.
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03-11-2008, 11:26 AM
#17
I'd hardly called ISC's piece rigged. If it performs over and over without failure in the most rigorous of conditions (racing) on a two Miatas that are kicking almighty *** in two different classes, well I'd say it works. I raced a car with the stock mounts and then with the ISC pieces and for $140 the handling of the car was improved dramatically.
If you've got an unlimited budget, then maybe it's ok to do it right. That means something that isolates the shock and spring assembly movement from the upper mount. What's unfortunate is that the TEIN design above sacrifices that isolated movement for more travel - and for that price one could just have their shocks shortened for the same prices and stick with the stock mounts.
If you've got an unlimited budget, then maybe it's ok to do it right. That means something that isolates the shock and spring assembly movement from the upper mount. What's unfortunate is that the TEIN design above sacrifices that isolated movement for more travel - and for that price one could just have their shocks shortened for the same prices and stick with the stock mounts.
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03-11-2008, 12:00 PM
#18
I'd hardly called ISC's piece rigged. If it performs over and over without failure in the most rigorous of conditions (racing) on a two Miatas that are kicking almighty *** in two different classes, we'll I'd say it works. I raced a car with the stock mounts and then with the ISC pieces and for $140 the handling of the car was improved dramatically.
If you've got an unlimited budget, then maybe it's ok to do it right. That means something that isolates the shock and spring assembly movement from the upper mount. What's unfortunate is that the TEIN design above sacrifices that isolated movement for more travel - and for that price one could just have their shocks shortened for the same prices and stick with the stock mounts.
If you've got an unlimited budget, then maybe it's ok to do it right. That means something that isolates the shock and spring assembly movement from the upper mount. What's unfortunate is that the TEIN design above sacrifices that isolated movement for more travel - and for that price one could just have their shocks shortened for the same prices and stick with the stock mounts.
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03-12-2008, 10:41 AM
#20
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$35/each is a gift. That's so cheap I can't imagine bothering to do it yourself unless that's part of the fun. I'm all for doing stuff on the cheap, but at some point your time is worth $$$ too. And honstly would you trust your own welding for a suspension part? I know I wouldn't trust your welding.
Where did you buy a house?
Where did you buy a house?
Its a condo, in Morinville.
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