concealer404

iTrader: (3)

Comes down to power levels. You can legitimately do a K swap for $10k or less, before even accounting for recouping what is probably an existing modded BP in your engine bay.

Track ready turbo BP? Probably $5-10k if you stay in the limitations of a stock motor.


I think Emilio says that a Rotrex BP is the cheapest and most reliable 200whp in these cars. I'm not sure if his position has changed now that he's messed with a K swap. I doubt it.

KMiata

To the OP, your first post explains much of the thought behind why we brought the K swap to market initially, and the same thought process as most of our customers.

It's such a suitable engine platform for these little cars. Sure, it comes at a price, but you end up with the best N/A 4 cylinder potential that's ever existed, with a solid 220whp starting point (not to mention boost potential).

If you're ever in the Chicago area, come by the shop and I'll take you for a ride

sixshooter

iTrader: (12)

Track 200whp turbo BP - not incredibly difficult or expensive

Track 300whp turbo BP - incredibly difficult and expensive

Track 200whp k24 - not incredibly difficult but expensive

sixshooter

iTrader: (12)

A k24 should be more reliable than a turbo BP just because it is less stressed and has fewer failure points.

chicksdigmiatas

iTrader: (11)

True, and if we are talking turbo k24, for 300whp, i still think it may be better than the bp. You can run a larger turbo for less heat too. Maybe brotrex it? (I bet one would be hilariously fun) My research on that so far has indicated oe rods will die at 300whp. Put in some rods and pistons on a efr 6758 and decimate all?

KMiata

OE k24a2 rods are typically good to 400-450whp depending on specific application, and OE k20 rods consistently handle 650+whp. If the end goal is boost, go with a stock k20a2 or k20z1 and call it a day. Much less stress on the bottom end thanks to the shorter stroke of the k20.

chicksdigmiatas

iTrader: (11)

Thanks, i was hoping you would chime in. I have a hard time with those forums as it is hard to find the info you want. A problem with all forums I suppose. Seems to me like the k20a2 wins out if you want boost or a high revving n/a screamer. Why did yall choose the tsx motor then?

turbofan

iTrader: (1)

I'm another in the camp of putting in a kswap in place of my built turbo BP.

Anyone want to buy a full Absurdflow setup built BP?

Lexzar

iTrader: (2)

Anyone want to buy a fireball making, EFR Artech setup?

vteckiller2000

iTrader: (4)

Can confirm, ecotec is cheap, does things that an engine does, feels terribad. 0/10 would not bang again.




Yes.

KMiata

TSX engine makes more power everywhere N/A once tuned, and 35 wtq more everywhere over a k20. It doesn't rev quite as high, but it also doesn't need to in order to make power. 8200 RPM out of a stock k24a2 is tons of fun and reliable. I've owned k20 and k24 cars, and I'll take the k24 any day in N/A form for a street or track car. Bonus is that the k24a2 is a good deal cheaper used than a k20a2 and k20z1 (RSX-S engines). But for a big turbo setup it's a different story.

huesmann

iTrader: (1)

It also depends where the OP lives, if this is at least partially a street car. AFAIK KMiata is still working on a PS and AC solution other than "roll your own." Living in Maine it's probably not a big deal; living in Texas it may be.

Savington

iTrader: (31)

$10k is a solid, realistic, no-bullshit estimate for the cost of building either car (track-reliable K24 vs track-reliable stock motor BP, target of 225whp). You can creep up on that cost with the turbo setup (do your ECU, clutch, cooling, fuel mods first, then add turbo last), you're spending it all at once with the K-series. K-series is also ~2x the labor cost if you are paying for that (~40-50hrs vs 20-25hrs).

The K revs harder, some people like that. I personally think the K24 needs a whole bunch of gear to make it feel as exciting on track - I've driven one with a 6sp and 3.909s and the rear end felt way too tall for the ~7800rpm redline that car had. If I get around to building one it will have a 6sp+4.3s at minimum, maybe even 4.44s. The turbo car is going to make 20-30tq more, and it will make that torque ~1000rpm earlier, so it will dig off corners harder. I am a turbo fanboy, I prefer that.

Having driven both, it really comes down to personal preference. For a track car, I think a stock K24 with 6sp+4.44s would be a ******* riot. For a race car, I think there are more opportunities for a turbo car to play (Supermiata S1, NASA ST4). For a street car, IMO, the turbo car is much better.

ryansmoneypit

iTrader: (6)

Very interesting outlook right there ^^^^^

KMiata

I ran a 6 speed with 4.30 for a bit with the K24 and I was always shifting into 5th everywhere, and was running out of 3rd gear out of corners more often then I liked. I eventually settled as 6 speed with 4.10 as the sweet spot for most tracks in the Midwest, with an 8200 RPM redline. I recommend 6 speed with 3.90 for the street guys.

We usually see stock k24a2s hit peak torque around 2700 RPM, so the low end is there, but its not going to be the same as a turbo car obviously.

Savington

iTrader: (31)

I like the 6sp/3.909s in Rover (215whp, 7krpm limit) so I'm basing my selection on that. I spend most of the time in 4th and 5th at CA tracks, with enough speed in 5th to avoid 5-6 shifts at most tracks and sparing use of 3rd gear to squirt off tight corners. A 7800rpm limit and 4.30s would be the same shift points. If I had 8200rpm to play with, I would definitely pick 4.44s for CA tracks.

Typo? IIRC we were seeing peak torque around 5k in Andrew's car.

emilio700

iTrader: (3)

Contingent on being a JR based kit, I still maintain the Rotrex is cheapest/most reliable. Also the easiest to install, set up and tune by far. That threshold holds up to about 220whp where a turbo starts to be more cost effective and faster. K swap, while fascinating and very high max power potential, isn't the cheapest or easiest as long as good turbo and Rotrex kits are on the market. For the $10k a good 210whp K swap (healthy junkyard motor) costs, you can make 280whp with a Rotrex or Turbo.

p.s. My comments assume an NB 1.8. Unless you are in a country that heavily taxes engines over 1600cc, don't waste your money on the B6.

sicklyscott

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for this. The K swap intrigues me as it has loads of potential but it's not going to be a whole lot better power wise than my boosted 1.6 (comparing dynos). It will however help with heat issues and be more reliable. Not sure how relevant that is anymore to me since I did some ducting work and have had zero heat issues plus I just bought a tow vehicle.

Maybe it's time to build a 1.8? Still so torn......

concealer404

iTrader: (3)

It'll be released any day now?

emilio700

iTrader: (3)

We stopped waiting about two years ago. Could be tomorrow, could be never. JR is quiet on the subject so who knows. Someone else told me the brackets & pulleys might be available, just not the rest of the system. Dunno if that's true or not. I have wto production TSE kits.