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-   -   10 ga wiring + Relays + Cibies ecodes + Narva 100/90W H4's = lighting win (https://www.miataturbo.net/general-miata-chat-9/10-ga-wiring-relays-cibies-ecodes-narva-100-90w-h4s-%3D-lighting-win-47591/)

hotspoons 05-20-2010 01:08 AM

10 ga wiring + Relays + Cibies ecodes + Narva 100/90W H4's = lighting win
 
Many years ago, I ran this exact setup on a 944 turbo, and I sorely missed both the quantity and quality of lighting. Having driven my STi with decent lighting (if you're into the whole HID thing) for a few years, going to the stock Miata was as much of a step backwards with lighting as it was with horsepower. The sealed-beam Sylvanias and anemic wiring to the lamps had to go.

So I bought a few things from Daniel Stern (http://www.danielsternlighting.com/) since my old lighting guy (iceshark) died in 2004. I picked up a relay installation kit and a pair of 7" Cibie ecodes (complete with city lights in case I ever want to be bling in 1996). I had to procure wiring elsewhere, so I picked up 3 lengths of 10 ga stranded wire, each 20 feet, in red, yellow, and black, from qc supply. I already had assorted wire in lesser gauge, and all of the solder, zip ties, and heat shrink tubing necessary to build the wiring harness.

Start to finish, the wiring harness probably took about 5 hours to build. I'm not very fast with cutting and soldering, getting the 10 ga wiring to fit into all of the terminal connectors can be a challenge, and 10 ga wire can be cumbersome to work with (I would also recommend trying to find smaller strand wire, because the thick strand stuff I got is on the high end of stiff for this application). The best illustrated writeup I found was this one: http://www.allpar.com/fix/electrical...ghts/index.php , and the most useful picture is this one:

http://www.allpar.com/fix/electrical...ts/valiant.jpg

So long as you follow that that is the rear of the plug that goes into the lamps, you can trace all of your wiring back to the relays, which are very well documented for wiring up, and back through to the relay-trigger plugs (i.e. the male connectors for an H4/sealed beam).

I thought that 20 feet of each color would be plenty to complete this task and I would have some left over, but I was mistaken. I actually used all but about 15 inches of red and yellow, and I had about 9 feet of the black left over.

So, to wire this up the way I did (I didn't need to run two mains to the alternator for high and low, I could have run both high and low triggers off of the same headlamp plug, and I didn't need to run grounds back to the relays, but I did), I did the following:

Cuts:
  • Cut 21 inches each of 10 ga in red, yellow, and black (red is high beam, yellow low, and black ground, for drivers' side headlight)
  • Cut 7 feet 6 inches each of 10 ga in red, yellow, and black (for pass. side headlight)
  • Cut 9 feet each of 10 ga in red and yellow (for mains from alternator)
  • Cut 7 feet 6 inches each of 18 ga in blue and black (trigger wire + ground for high beam, ran to pass' side OEM headlamp plug)
  • Cut 21 inches of of 18 ga in red and black (trigger wire + ground for low beam, ran to drivers' side OEM headlamp plug)

Assembly:
  • Soldered in the inline fuses to the mains near the relays
  • Soldered ring terminal connectors to both 10 ga mains and both grounds
  • Soldered all terminal connectors to their respective wires
  • Heat-shrunk tubing over all terminal connector solder spots, save for the H4 sockets
  • Zip-tied the bundle of wires into a loom for each headlamp at 6" intervals
  • Zip-tied the two mains into a loom at 6" intervals
  • Zip-tied the trigger wires into a loom at 4" intervals
  • Plugged all terminal connectors into the relay sockets, H4 sockets, and H4 male connectors; at this point I had a 7.5 foot loom of 3 wires for to the pass. light, a 21 inch loom of 3 wires for the drivers' light, a 7.5 foot loom of 2 light gauge wire for the passengers' side OEM socket, a 21 inch loom of 2 light gauge wire for the drivers' side OEM socket, and a 9 foot loom of 2 wires for the mains/alternator
  • Hot-glued the gaps around the new H4 plastic protector since it required trimming to fit 10 ga wire

Note that to fit the 10 ga wire onto the terminal connectors that go into the ceramic H4 lighting socket, I needed to actually break off the outside of the brittle ceramic socket so the terminals would seat. The terminals are held in place well by both the plastic protector and the hot glue that got shot in.

Also, you will learn to love the click that the terminal connectors make when properly seated. If I was going to do this again, 12 ga would probably have been sufficient for the lighting, but would have been much easier to work with. However, overbuilding rules.

Installation:
  • Mounted the relays on the drivers' side underneath of the hood support bracket, behind the drivers' side headlamp
  • Ran all wiring to passengers' side underneath of the headlamp cavity, along the outside edge, zip tieing it through a couple of holes, then through the gap behind the radiator, in the nose, and back out through the other side
  • Zip-tied the harness a few strategic spots
  • Zip-tied the wiring to the new H4 ceramic connectors at the pivot point (fulcrum?), and again near the stock location inside the head light
  • Ran the mains to the alternator through the front of the radiator overflow tank, across the gap to the engine, through the wiring bundle that is tied to the intake snorkel/anti-hydrolock valve, then to the alternator
  • Grounded on some bracket - I think it was for a charcoal canister or something, near the relays
  • Installed new headlamps and reassembled removed parts

Installation took about 3 hours, and required removing the intake tract from the throttle body to the AFM to facilitate unobstructed access to the alternator, removing the headlamp fairings, removing the headlamp tops, and ultimately the headlamps to put in the Cibies. I also spraypainted the headlamp fairings black while they were off since they had a bunch of blue overspray from the last time my car was painted.

Total I probably spent $275 or so; however, the increase in lighting quality *and* quantity is amazing. And even though I am running an increase in lighting output likely 4 to 6 times what the sealed Sylvanias were, I will be less distracting to other drivers because of the superior beam pattern and sharp cutoff of the Cibies.

In my 944 turbo, running the identical setup, on a flat enough road I would illuminate freeway signs over two miles ahead with the highbeams on. The lighting is far superior to what comes with my Subaru or my girlfriend's Infiniti. And technically the setup is illegal (both the beam pattern and the 100W/90W H4's). However, it is zero bling; no blue tinge or nothin', so you won't be attracting attention, unless you drive around with your highbeams on, which will literally melt the eyes out of other drivers' sockets (not really).

NA6C-Guy 05-20-2010 01:10 AM

I just got the e-codes, installed 100w bulbs and made a profit of better lighting. Is all of this extra work required?

hotspoons 05-20-2010 01:16 AM


Originally Posted by NA6C-Guy (Post 575642)
I just got the e-codes, installed 100w bulbs and made a profit of better lighting. Is all of this extra work required?

You run the risk of melting the wiring running to your headlamps since the 18 ga (I think) stock headlamp wiring will build massive resistance when pulling 100 watts through them.

But performance wise, you would see a large increase (possibly double) in the amount of available lighting by running relays since your voltage drop will go from something like 2 or 2.5V to 0.5V at the lamps since the resistance will drop significantly due to the wiring not being a bottle neck.

NA6C-Guy 05-20-2010 01:18 AM


Originally Posted by hotspoons (Post 575643)
You run the risk of melting the wiring running to your headlamps since the 18 ga (I think) stock headlamp wiring will build massive resistance when pulling 100 watts through them.

But performance wise, you would see a large increase (possibly double) in the amount of available lighting by running relays since your voltage drop will go from something like 2 or 2.5V to 0.5V at the lamps since the resistance will drop significantly due to the wiring not being a bottle neck.

Seems like I've heard that before. Maybe that would make a good weekend project for me one weekend. Good writeup, thanks.

I would assume doing something similar for the fog lights would be beneficial too? It probably doesn't help that I have the fogs tied into the FBC, which probably isn't up to the task.

I would appreciate seeing pictures of the light output, if you wouldn't mind. I'd bet mine aren't lighting the road like they could.

hotspoons 05-20-2010 01:31 AM


Originally Posted by NA6C-Guy (Post 575645)
Seems like I've heard that before. Maybe that would make a good weekend project for me one weekend. Good writeup, thanks.

I would assume doing something similar for the fog lights would be beneficial too? It probably doesn't help that I have the fogs tied into the FBC, which probably isn't up to the task.

I would appreciate seeing pictures of the light output, if you wouldn't mind. I'd bet mine aren't lighting the road like they could.

Yes, this would be beneficial on fogs as well. On my 944 turbo, just installing the harness, with the shitty sealed-beam Sylvanias intact, made a difference of night and day, then of course the Cibies/Narvas could make use of all of that extra flow and could be seen from space.

I'll snap a picture later this week and post it here for you.

NA6C-Guy 05-20-2010 01:35 AM


Originally Posted by hotspoons (Post 575649)
Yes, this would be beneficial on fogs as well. On my 944 turbo, just installing the harness, with the shitty sealed-beam Sylvanias intact, made a difference of night and day, then of course the Cibies/Narvas could make use of all of that extra flow and could be seen from space.

I'll snap a picture later this week and post it here for you.

Appreciate it. That link with the more in depth stuff sure does look overwhelming, in terms of tedious soldering and thinking. Main reason I avoid wiring is the amount of tedious work. If it's that beneficial, I would probably do it. I am kind of tired of seeing my 6 ft of slack in the wiring harness that came with my Hella fog lights, rolled up and tucked under the brake master cylinder. :giggle:

NA6C-Guy 05-20-2010 02:04 AM

Might I also ask how you routed the harness to the rear of the car? Did you go through the cabin? Maybe along the passenger door sill area, under the carpet where there is some kind of cover already in place? After reading Sterns website, I am more interested in this. Seems that just a 2v drop in the lighting can reduce the output by roughly half. I'm pretty confident my ratty 16 year old, 16g-18g (maybe smaller) stock headlight wiring just isn't cutting it for 100w bulbs. I bet the improvement really is HUGE.

n/m, I see it's from the alternator. I wonder if there is a disadvantage from drawing from the battery. Electrical stuff is NOT my strong point.

To edit my post again, after looking yet again more in depth, Sterns diagrams really makes what seems like a difficult job seem much more simple and straight forward. Still a tedious job to make it look good and not be a mess of tangled wires. In short all you are doing is using existing headlight wires as relay switch wires, and giving each the high and low beam circuit a direct, fused power source from the alt or battery. Simple stuff really.

Are our cars ground switched? I would think so.

kday 05-20-2010 08:04 AM

I have Hella e-code housings and Osram "Hyper" 80W bulbs. I have not bothered to add relays because it is already very bright. What a huge improvement from stock.

chpmnsws6 05-20-2010 08:25 AM

10 gauge wire for around 11 amps of current?

hotspoons 05-20-2010 07:40 PM


Originally Posted by NA6C-Guy (Post 575655)
Might I also ask how you routed the harness to the rear of the car? Did you go through the cabin? Maybe along the passenger door sill area, under the carpet where there is some kind of cover already in place? After reading Sterns website, I am more interested in this. Seems that just a 2v drop in the lighting can reduce the output by roughly half. I'm pretty confident my ratty 16 year old, 16g-18g (maybe smaller) stock headlight wiring just isn't cutting it for 100w bulbs. I bet the improvement really is HUGE.

n/m, I see it's from the alternator. I wonder if there is a disadvantage from drawing from the battery. Electrical stuff is NOT my strong point.

To edit my post again, after looking yet again more in depth, Sterns diagrams really makes what seems like a difficult job seem much more simple and straight forward. Still a tedious job to make it look good and not be a mess of tangled wires. In short all you are doing is using existing headlight wires as relay switch wires, and giving each the high and low beam circuit a direct, fused power source from the alt or battery. Simple stuff really.

Are our cars ground switched? I would think so.

Yes, off of the alternator. It really wasn't that tedious or difficult, just time consuming. What you describe is exactly what it is, just connecting the dots.

No, our cars are *not* ground switched; that is Toyotas (and possibly others) from the 80's and early 90's.



Originally Posted by kday (Post 575679)
I have Hella e-code housings and Osram "Hyper" 80W bulbs. I have not bothered to add relays because it is already very bright. What a huge improvement from stock.

Adding relays and big wires will give a massive improvement, especially when running high wattage bulbs.


Originally Posted by chpmnsws6 (Post 575685)
10 gauge wire for around 11 amps of current?

12 gauge would have probably been sufficient (yes, I know 18 or 20 gauge wire can handle 11 amps no problem for a short run, bur read on), but over a 17 foot run of wire (from the alternator to the lamp through the relay), 14 or higher gauge wire would have significantly higher resistance as heat would built up pulling that amount of current, resulting in a bigger voltage drop at the lamps. Remember that the longer the cable, the more the resistance, so a longer run requires lower gauge wire to mitigate the effects of the wire acting as a resistor.

NA6C-Guy 05-20-2010 07:45 PM

So the relays don't need to use the ground from the existing headlight harness from the switch. Would it hurt anything to still do it that way, instead of making a new ground? Since you're already using the existing old hot wire for the relay signal, why not (unless you can't). I think I may chance it with 12 gauge, to save on the cost, and stiffness of wire. I think 12 gauge would be fine though.

Did you use so much length to run it along with the old harness? Wonder if it would help at all to save a little length by routing it differently. Probably not enough to notice. A few feet with sufficient wire size isn't a big deal from what little I know in the world of audio. I'd imagine it translates to lighting.

chpmnsws6 05-20-2010 08:46 PM

Hmmmm, I'll have to measure the voltage drop at the light along with checking the wire temp once the lights have been on for awhile. This is something I've thought about often, as I had to do the same thing to the Jeep to run 100 watt bulbs. At least Mazda was smarter then most American car makers and used the switch to trigger a relay as apposed to running all the juice through the switch.

chpmnsws6 05-28-2010 03:01 AM

Did some "back woods" checking on the headlights. With my 100w setup, adding a second wire to the power wires on the headlights offered very little change in brightness. When helping the ground out, the change was very obvious. I cut the ground portion of the socket off, used the stock wiring and added a 10 gauge ground wire to each side to supplement the stock ground. No pictures, but just something to think about if someone doesn't want to go the most thorough route like you did. :)

astroboy 05-28-2010 09:44 AM

Sweet writeup, I am also thinking about doing this...it would be really great to see a comparison of light. When I do something similar I will most likely shorten the runs and use 12 ga. Will also do some before and after photo's.

NA6C-Guy 06-23-2010 06:20 PM

Will be making my Stern purchase tomorrow for a "kit", 100/90w Narvas, and a pair of 55w +50 Narvas for my fogs. I have to say I'm quite excited. My lights are already leaps and bounds over stock headlights, I can only imagine after improving from stock wiring and 80/55w bulbs. Also be glad to get my fogs back, haven't been able to use them for months since one of the bulbs burned out and I'm too cheap and lazy to replace it. Now to locate my soldering iron, and to go purchase some suitable wire.

I can't wait for the first time I get to use the high beams (let there be light!) against a light ricer who has installed mad tyte HID's into their stock, unmodified housings on their mini truck, turning it into a horribly blinding, glaring pile of shit. Like welding arcs coming at you.

NA6C-Guy 07-08-2010 06:09 AM

This is the first time I can honestly say I am excited about doing electrical. Maybe because it's a new install and not an old repair. Got my kit and bulbs from Stern after a little more wait than I hoped for, but it was worth it. All of the parts look top notch. The relays are probably most of the cost, nice dual 87's. Also made a purchase of 130' of wire in 12 and 16 gauge, and 5 different colors, along with some loom in two sizes, heat shrink tubing of various sizes, a new soldering iron, and a few other various parts. I plan to do this install correct, and not half assed like many of my electrical projects end up being. Getting the lengths correct will be the tough part. I want it to sort of blend in with existing harnesses.

levnubhin 07-08-2010 03:30 PM

I've been running the e-codes with 100w bulbs for 2+ years now with no issues.
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jbrown7815 07-08-2010 03:41 PM

Best place to buy said E-codes?

NA6C-Guy 07-08-2010 03:50 PM


Originally Posted by jbrown7815 (Post 598753)
Best place to buy said E-codes?

I got mine from rallylights. I've heard the Cibie are better than the Hella because of the lenses and how it puts light on the road.

100w bulbs might work without issue, but you can bet there is a sizable drop in voltage, and even 2v drop at the light equates to you getting 50% of the light the bulbs are capable of producing. This is why I am going through the trouble. I'm already thoroughly happy with my 85w bulbs on stock wiring, but I can only imagine how bright 100w on good wiring will be.

jbrown7815 07-08-2010 03:53 PM


Originally Posted by NA6C-Guy (Post 598757)
I got mine from rallylights. I've heard the Cibie are better than the Hella because of the lenses and how it puts light on the road.

100w bulbs might work without issue, but you can bet there is a sizable drop in voltage, and even 2v drop at the light equates to you getting 50% of the light the bulbs are capable of producing. This is why I am going through the trouble. I'm already thoroughly happy with my 85w bulbs on stock wiring, but I can only imagine how bright 100w on good wiring will be.

So your current setup is as simple as plug and play?

jbrown7815 07-08-2010 03:58 PM

So this: http://www.rallylights.com/detail.aspx?ID=350

+

http://www.ddmtuning.com/Products/DD...ast-35W-or-55W

All I need?





Thanks

NA6C-Guy 07-08-2010 04:56 PM


Originally Posted by jbrown7815 (Post 598759)
So your current setup is as simple as plug and play?

Yep. Osram Hyper 85w bulbs, also from rallylights, and the Hella e-code housings. MUCH more light than stock, and much more light actually on the road, and not scattered all over the place like with DOT, US spec junk housings/lenses.

Not sure on the HID's, never run them before. Not even sure if a good HID kit could put out the kind of light a good setup with 100W halogen bulbs could.

NA6C-Guy 07-08-2010 05:19 PM

1 Attachment(s)
If the OP doesn't mind, I will try and document my harness build and give as much helpful info as I can and post it up here, in hope of maybe being useful. My camera hasn't gotten much use lately anyway.

Build on!

Attachment 196194

jbrown7815 07-08-2010 05:46 PM

I think HID should beat them. My stock HID's on my Audi are full of WIN. White light makes such a difference.

hotspoons 07-09-2010 01:09 AM

@NA6C-Guy - feel free! I'll snap some pictures at a point to show off this install.

@Jbrown, I have two cars with factory hid's in the stable - an '07 STi and my girlfriend's '07 g35 sedan. The miata with said lighting upgrades has notably better lighting than both. Granted, it isn't attention getting or bling, but I have no qualms saying I prefer night driving in the miata over the others, because of superior, usable lighting.

hotspoons 07-09-2010 01:44 AM

Also, jbrown - you *do not* want to use xenon/hid's in an h4 fixture. It is the lighting equivalent of duct taping a mustang driveline to a civic - yes, it will make light, but it will be in optics specifically designed for the output of an h4 lamp, not an arc. You can get 7" hid's, but a genuine, well engineered set up with proper optics is very expensive, and all you gain is whiter light that looks cool, while subjectively the performance of a high end h4 setup will give you a better end experience. Trust me, this was my first thought when I did the lighting upgrades on my 944 turbo years ago, but research and common sense prevailed, hence me repeating the same setup after owning cars with factory hid's for said reasons. You don't want to be that jackass in the ford f150 blinding oncoming traffic with glaring '9000k' hid filaments in the wrong optics, do you? Now, hid reverse lamps I can get behind.

hotspoons 07-09-2010 02:04 AM


Originally Posted by chpmnsws6 (Post 579852)
Did some "back woods" checking on the headlights. With my 100w setup, adding a second wire to the power wires on the headlights offered very little change in brightness. When helping the ground out, the change was very obvious. I cut the ground portion of the socket off, used the stock wiring and added a 10 gauge ground wire to each side to supplement the stock ground. No pictures, but just something to think about if someone doesn't want to go the most thorough route like you did. :)


you're right that adding additional / better grounds will make a big difference on a stock harness. If you have big wires going into the circuit fed off of a power source, then you get very big gains, but only if you complete the circuit with a solid ground. It is like putting a big turbo on with a 1 and 1/4" exhaust otherwise. Better grounds by themselves would definitely make a difference.

jbrown7815 07-09-2010 02:22 AM

Alright thanks hotspoons. Will go with halogen.

NA6C-Guy 07-10-2010 04:17 PM

Sorry, pictures and documentation are just not happening. I've been up for about 26 hours, and have been working on my lights since about 6am, it's now 3pm. Took me a lot more time than it did Spoons, I work slow. Not my favorite project, by far. I have it looking pretty OEM, with loom in the important areas. Only thing I couldn't really hide were the main lines from the alternator.

Everything works but the relay blocks are giving me trouble. A few of the damn ends won't stay snapped in the block and slide out. I also got a little solder or something in a few of them, because the relays won't fully seat. Everything works though. I may try shooting the block full of hot glue where the wires won't vibrate loose going down the road. Night trials will come tonight or in the morning after I get my 10 hours of sleep. That heat and lack of sleep kicked my ass.

PS, first impression in the daylight, which is poor indication, is that they aren't really much brighter with the same 85w bulbs I was running before. I held off on the 100w bulbs for now. If I don't see much change I will be quite a bit annoyed with this project, since I lost OEM simplicity and 100% reliability, and now have aftermarket stuff I installed, and wires shaking loose and shit.

NA6C-Guy 07-10-2010 09:59 PM

1 Attachment(s)
Never mind... HOLY SHIT! Even with the same bulbs, the change is HUGE. I'll get some pictures later when I take it out to test and aim them. I can't even imagine them with the 100w bulbs in them. Almost think 100w would be overkill for a street vehicle. I don't think there are many if any cars on the road from the factory with lighting this good. Bright and well aimed. I can stand in front of the car and not get blinded with glare, but squat down a bit and your eyes burn.

Here is a picture of the light. This is low beam, and the camera was set up a bit improperly and is a bit dark, so it's actually a good bit brighter than this. Hand held shooting in the dark is tough on ISO200 with a 1/10 shutter.

Attachment 196141

Going through a construction zone with high beams on is almost blinding to me because of all of the reflective tape on the cones/drums. After a more thorough test I would say wiring alone increased my light output by 30%-40%. I will install the 100W bulbs tomorrow, along with the fog/driving light bulb and try again. Absolutely no way a deer will sneak out in my path now.

NA6C-Guy 08-21-2010 08:15 AM

I'm bringing it back for a second. Hey Spoons, do you run boots on your headlights? I recall my Hellas coming with boots, but where they ran off to I have no idea. Just noticed they were missing, so no doubt I lost them one of the previous times installing bulbs. I just blew my first 85/80 the other night leaving work, but it's OK since they already had over a year of use on them before the wire job. The bulb itself was busted, but the filaments looked in one piece. I'm thinking the lack of boot let this horrible night time humidity get into the light and maybe a drop of water condensed and dripped and hit the hot bulb and shattered it? Can you even run the rubber boot with 100W lights without melting them? Either way, the 85/80 came out and the 100/90 went in. I could tell just by sight in the day that the 90 is a tiny bit brighter than the 80, but I can also feel more heat, which I don't suppose is a real issue. Can't wait for tonight so I can try them out. Carrying my set of stock wattage Night Breakers in the trunk from now on as spares. Only takes a screwdriver and a few minutes to swap them out.

I may invest in a set of Cibies since I hear they have a slightly better pattern than the Hella, and I can get some boots back, since the insides of mine are a bit fogged and dirty. I guess I could cure that if I wanted to.


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