124 Abarth or NC Turbo?
 

Hi All,

I am looking to get my next car which will be my daily driver. I plan to use the car for Autocrossing 3-5x per year and dont really plan to take it to the track all too much. So I am looking for a fun Street car that I will take to the Auto cross course a few times a year. I was living abroad for the past few years so when I move back will need to get a car. Previously I have had many many different cars
Trans Am WS6, EVO X with 350WHP, Audi S4, 91 Miata Turbo Auto-X car, As well as other Jeeps, etc. Although all were fun for their different reasons, I always loved the turbo miata and the smile it put on my face. So I am looking to get one that does the same thing with some comforts over what the NA had to offer. I would like to mention that there are a few reasons I am not considering the ND. One in particular is that I and my Mrs would like heated seats. So that is a requirement, which would mean I would have to go with the Grand Touring, which does not have a LSD as an option. Hence why the abarth is appealing because I can get factory Recaros that are heated still and will hold me in place better than stock seats.

Therefore the options I am looking at are:

2013-2015 NC Miata PRHT (18-20K)
Turbo, Exhaust, Clutch, Tune. (~8K)
OR
2017 Fiat 124 Abarth (~30K)
Factory Recaros
Tune to get more HP...

Eventually I would also do Wheels, Tires and Suspension to both... But as I would do that to either car I have left it out of the Modification list. Upon my calculations I feel that both will be similar in price to build and therefore it is a very tough choice. I have read every review and comparisons out there but am still not sure which one would be more fun as the 124 is already a turbo, etc.

Curious to get the thoughts and opinions of others out there and which they would go with and why. Thank you to everyone for their responses up front and I am excited to post back in a few months when I finally move back and get one of them.

Fiat 124.

What are your power goals for your next car?
The limitations of the 124 are it's small turbo and intercooler. A tune will help but nothing major.

Honestly, in my opinion, youve already had a turbo Miata, might as well give another platform a shot and see how it works out. The 124 looks very appealing, however as mentioned it does have tiny 1.4l tiny turbo. Go test drive both of them the same day and see how you feel.

I am not super power hungry. I have had cars like the evo with what I feel was too much power for the street. Ideally I would like 200 ish WHP ... Which I think I could get out of the 1.4...

If I put a turbo on the NC I am sure I would be able to easily get 220-240WHP... Just because it would be a bigger motor with a bigger turbo. I think given how light the cars are that ~200WHP will be good for either one.

I also like that 124 comes with back up camera standard (Which I assume eventually will come to the ND) etc. Also think the factory recaros... While not race buckets, will be a benefit when auto-crossing.

I am going to go look at an NC this weekend, and then drive the ND and 124 as well as I will be back in the states.

Open to any opinions from people that have/had turbo NC or driven the 124 abarth.

I think you've already decided, but you need emotional support from the community to back your decision.

I wish I could say I have decided!

Will still try and drive both cars... I want to hear from someone who has an NC turbo.... And could depend if I can get a killer deal on an NC or not... Anyone want to sell their car for cheap in a couple of months? :)

Want an NA? I'll sell it for under your target price but sadly it doesn't have heated seats.


Just decide if you want something old [NC] because you like tinkering and are excited about the project or if you want something brand new and spiffy that is a Miata but with a different power plant, and has the seats you want, and is heated, and can get you to your power requirement relatively easily.

Or just buy the cheapest NC you can find and swap in a L5Y0 2.5L motor for 200hp all motor.

Worlds colliding! Man that'd be full circle if he bought your car with the motor that I helped to drop in it! (2 of the few times :P )
Tyler's first turbo NA was the reason that I built mine!

The big reason I'd pick the NC is that shit happens when you race. More spare parts available for the NC in case you damage panels etc.

Sadly that BP4W roasted and I had to rebuild a new engine as soon as I moved down.

Runs well now though (knocks on wood)

Maybe turning it up to 11 this winter /spring with flex fuel.

(also still rocking A/C parts lol)

Oh yeah :(

Don't knock too hard. Ba dum tiss.

Don't knock too hard. Ba dum tiss.[/QUOTE]

I see what you did there ^ ^ :rofl:

All good responses. I will be looking this weekend and driving all of them hopefully so I will report back.

Key words here: "daily driver" and "Mrs." You haven't mentioned where you live (traffic, weather), what your daily driver duties entail (5 miles roundtrip or 100 miles each way in bumper to bumper traffic and occasional need to transport cargo), whether you plan to ever have kids, how long you normally keep cars for, whether emissions compliance is a necessity, your ability and desire to wrench on cars and how often, whether you or your wife plan to keep any other cars to balance the fleet, etc.

Personally, anything that has aftermarket engine mods pushes it into the toy car category. Some toy cars can be daily driven if you put in enough time, money and effort but I'm not sure your Mrs.' idea of a daily driver is a temperamental toy car. Fun can be had in all sorts of shapes and sizes. Some cars that are great in one environment or application are miserable in another. All that being said, I absolutely would not daily drive an aftermarket turbocharged NC where I live given my life circumstances. The Fiat 124 sounds nice. I know that various shops offer canned tunes, downpipes, etc. for the 1.4L MultiAir but the EPA is cracking down on companies that sell such equipment so they may not be available for much longer if at all (the 124 is still new to the scene so most of what's out there is for the 500 Abarth/Dart).

The 124 currently does not have any tuning available for it. Goodwin Racing tried that piggyback thing and it didn't do a thing for them. They are showing 200 wtq with their full exhaust on their very optimistic dyno, though. I just don't think you will see accurate and repeatable 200 whp until a true tuning solution is available.

I have had two NC's and I really liked them. However, buying an older NC means little to no warranty and just an older car overall. I vote for the Abarth, although I don't know if you will be able to actually get one for 30k. The trunk will most definitely be smaller on the 124, if that matters.

You gotta weight the options.
Fiat 124...new w/ warranty...1.4 turbo, probably 30 grand.
Used NC, no warranty, not even close to 30 grand, a lot of aftermarket availability.
As much as I like the 124, the NC would be the best value.

He wants a DD, though, and he would be buying the most expensive of the NC's to get both heated seats and and LSD. The NC's had the suspension package option, which is the only way to get the stock LSD, unless you got a Club model, which doesn't get you his wanted heated seats. The stock NC seats are also shitty and the Recaros would obviously be awesome. If only mild mods are warranted, I would go 124 everytime.

I'm still so pissed that Mazda refuses to offer Recaros in the BBS package here in the US on the ND. The Canadians get them. I would trade in my '16 Sport for a new Club model in a millisecond if the BBS package came with Recaros.

Hi All,

Thank you again for all the replies. I went yesterday and sat in the 124 (although on the wrong side) and it is definitely tight in there. I adjusted the seat forward, backwards, more tilt, less tilt, and I am about 1" from the top when up. Its not bad, but I was hoping for just a touch more. Also found out that you cannot get the Recaro's on that car in the UK... I will be buying this in the US so that doesnt matter for me but was interesting to find out. I was surprised because the miata out here does offer the recaros...

For more information as requested... My daily drive will be 20 minutes with part highway, about 15 miles to work each way and based in NJ. So it is a fairly short commute. Eventually I would get another car (4 door) and likely keep the miata. The Mrs drives a Silverado, so when we need to haul things I can always take that.

This weekend I have found a fiat dealer that has both Abarths in stock as well as a used NC so that I will be able to do a back/back side/side comparison. I am looking forward to driving them both back to back and providing the input back here.

I do agree with all posts about the miata being the better value, just need to see how they drive and which one will fit better for both of us. Looking forward to providing an update back this weekend!

Oh, if you will eventually get another sedan to get to work in, then I would just get teh miata. The 124 seems like much more of a cruiser because of the added sound deadening and modernity and all that over the NC. If you are only wanting a temporary car to get to work in, then get the NC and make it a semi-project. Look up FAB9 and their EFR turbo kit for the NC's for an example of how fun one of those could be.

Can't you get one from Canada?

Yeah, but that would be an insane hassle since Canada is 1300 miles away at the closest and good luck convincing my credit union to finance a car from Canada.

So have been meaning to post an overdue update.... I went and drove a 124 (Non Abarth) and a NC PRHT.... Both manual.

The dealer I went to did have 124 abarths, but none of them were manual, so therefore I had to choose and decided to go for the regular 124 with the manual, which I am thinking could have been a mistake as I did not get the exhaust noise, the better suspension, or the extra 4 horsepower. I must say I was not super impressed with it. I am not sure if this is because it was not the abarth version, or what but it just didn't seem to thrill that much. There was definitely nothing low end and I was hoping/expecting the power to come on harder. Again - Maybe the map in the abarth is more aggressive, and the "sport" mode with tighter steering and the better throttle map would make it more exciting. I will need to drive one to be entirely sure. Head room, no matter what I did was bout 1/2" from the top to the top of my head. I could not get the seat to go any lower.

Overall the car felt just OK, not as powerful as I was hoping for, and definitely wished it would have felt more exciting than it did.

Then I drove an NC... Interestingly... I am pretty sure it had the Gordy M seat mod done to it. When I looked at the seat there was a gap between then seat bottom and the back of the seat, which I can only assume means the mod had been done? Can anyone confirm if the stock seat in the lowest setting has a gap between the seat bottom and the back of the seat, or if that means it was modified? I need to see another one to determine if they all have a gap between the seat bottom and the back of the seat but my guess is it was lowered. SO - when I got in that one I had about an inch from my head to the head liner. This was nice. Put the top down and I know these things do not matter, but all things to consider because I don't think I have seen a good way to lower the seats on the ND yet.

The NC drove well and definitely feels (to me) faster than the stock base model Fiat. I am not sure if that is because there is more cabin engine noise in the NC, or because it was more tail happy? Not entirely sure. But it was definitely the more fun car to drive. As of right now I am still (Perhaps even more torn) on what to get. Will have to test drive both again and then make a final decision in the next month or so.

Was really hoping that there would be a moment where one was the clear winner, but I am still waiting for that one to happen. I cannot imagine what the NC would be like with the turbo though.... I assume it would be a drift machine on the stock tires......

Hoping to provide more updates after I drive a manual abarth this upcoming weekend.

Well, the ultimate test of what to get is actually driving the car, so kudos to you for doing your research. While turboing the NC is a great option, just opening up the exhaust on any 124 with GWR stuff should make a big difference. I am not confident of a real ECU tune solution to come out any time soon, though.

What year of NC are you looking at?

Targeting the 2014 -2015 as I really like the Meteor Gray that was only offered in those years and is the same dark gray of the ND cars as well. Like the NC2.5/3 the best in regards to how the front end looks. Looks more S2000 like to me. Targeting to have <40K miles on the car, ideally the lower the better so have been looking at ones from 5K-20k miles mostly.

Agree. The Abarth alone could "become" more exciting when I drive it because it will be louder and with the LSD should be more tail happy. Looking forward to it this weekend and will post back after I have.

Hi All,

Went driving both cars again this weekend and I have decided the NC is just the better fit for me. I did drive a manual abarth, and I just was not super impressed by it. The exhaust to me sounded tinny, and was not a deep as I was hoping for. I think this is part because of the baby 1.4L motor and the small turbo. Even my older NA 1.6 with greddy sounded deeper and better in my opinion.

As for power, I will say it is a moderately quick car, but it really did not have anything low end, and just didnt pull as much as I was hoping for. Also in regards to fit, I just cannot get the seat low enough to make myself comfortable with the top up.

With the NC i drove this weekend, it did not have the Gordy M Seat mod done, but I still fit in it better than I did the fiat. With the Gordy M seat mod done, it will be a night and day difference then. I will be targeting to get a 2014-15 NC and will be turbo-ing it early next year. Will get it tuned by Moto East, and will keep you all updated! I am excited to begin the car search and will hopefully be buying one in Jan!

Sounds like a great plan. The MotoEast guys really seem to know what they are doing. They have an open house every year where you can come chrck out their cars and such and I was impressed by what I saw.

I super regret selling my mint Winning Blue 06 with factory hard top a few months ago. Both for the financial advantages and the 2.5 swaps. Right about the time I traded it in on a '16 was when Goodwin Racing was lying about their header getting near 200 whp on the ND and that is just under what the 2.5 swaps makes in the NC's. So good luck on finding a good NC! I have had two and they are really enjoyable cars.

I like the decision buddy. That NC motor with a turbo is going to have incredible amounts of low end power compared to the Abarth. I think you'll enjoy it way more for a DD. Maybe we'll finally have a turbo Miata face off at autocross next year.

Yeah, that's really disappointing just how much they seem to be fudging the numbers on that.

I really want an ND when I ditch the BRZ, but with transmission "issue" I'm not confident a decent FI setup wouldn't kill it. So I'll probably just get something with a V8 or turbo from the factory.

Oh you mean now that yours is running again :p

I am coming for you.....

Just 2 cents here: You can easily add heated seats to the Miata Club. If you haven't driven the ND... you really should, just to be sure.

The problem is I want to modify for more horsepower... hence tuning the 124 or the NC turbo... and I don't trust the ND transmission with extra power levels until others have proven it. Also I have sat in a few NDs and I have the same problem as the fiat where I just can't get the seat low enough....

What's the tl;dr summary on this lie?

^what he said.

I haven't seen anyone proving them wrong, but I haven't expressly looked either. GWR showed before and after dyno plots on the same dyno.

please do share

Shit went downhill when customers received theirs and weren't getting anywhere near his numbers

For what it's worth the Fiat uses the transmission out of the NC miata, not the ND.

What about torques? I commented that I'd never seen a naturally aspirated motor do 85 ft/lbs per Liter peak on a chassis dyno, much less across a range of RPMs.

^ Having said that, the 80 ft-lbs per liter Shiv got here (scroll to bottom), is impressive. 13:1 compression ratio sure helps

MX-5 Miata Forum - View Single Post - OpenFlash Tech: Testing Theories on the Dynojet

Hopefully he will do some Flex Fuel stuff for it soon. On the BRZ E85 tunes pick up 15-20whp. And I'm sure we'd see the same on the ND.

Was just driving my daughter's '15 PRHT GT. Damn, what a nice car. There's something to be said for buying the last year of a model, refined with all bugs worked out.

I too was disappointed in the 124 that I rented a while back. Engine delivers torque like a diesel (a bunch down low, runs out quick). Had weird rattles. Seemed like a Miata with a body kit.

- GWR posted a 193 whp dyno using their LT header
- Everyone went nuts
- 3 days later it was revealed it was on 95 octane, not 91 like all the other dyno results had been on
- Fast forward to now and not a single dyno result has been posted within 20 whp of that original claim, on ANY octane

So their first lie was one of omission. The second is that their long-tube, which has been revised at least twice now, still makes nothing remotely close to their original claims.

Any ND built after September 6th, 2016 has the new updated transmission in it. You are definitely right that there is no way to know if any FI set-up would kill even the new one. There is a topic on m.net that even has the exact VIN range to look for if you want to see if the transmission in the car you are looking at is affected.
The Official -Facts Only- ND Transmission Failure Thread - Page 4 - MX-5 Miata Forum

Morning All,

Resurrecting this thread to provide an update. I have since taken ownership of a 2014 Meteor Gray NC PRHT with only 9k miles! Grand touring and every option. I have already begun modding as well. Some of the things I have done so far:
Smart top installed
Dead Pedal Mod
Gas Pedal Mod
Gordy M Seat Mod
Automatic Headlight Module installed.
Windshield wiper stalk replacement with one with adjustable intermittent setting.

Parts waiting to be installed:
Moto-East/Begi Turbo Kit.
ACT HD Clutch
FIdanza lightweight flywheel.

To be purchased Still:
Suspension (Likely Ohlins)
Wheels and Tires (Still deciding between RPF1's or 6UL in Tungsten color)

All fun stuff though and many more weekends of wrenching are in my future!

Tyler

We need vids and pics! Especially after that turbo install.

Congrats on the purchase.

Turbo parts will likely take 6-10 months longer than promised to arrive, and will likely be missing half the parts, which will take another 6-10 months to arrive, so I don't think he'll have pics of that any time soon, but please do post pics of the rest of the stuff/car :)

You have something against Moto East or Begi? Lol - The kit I HAVE... already in my possession is kind of a hybrid kit. There are some bits from Begi, but mostly the kit is from Moto-East. All their intercooler piping, etc. Will also be tuned by moto east. The main thing that is Begi is the manifold and some of the oil/water lines that came with the begi kit.

I still need to take pictures of it all, but I do have the whole kit sitting there waiting to be installed on the car. :)

Tyler

Nope, except that I have yet to see or hear anyone on this forum receive anything on time, or complete, or properly fitting, from begi in the past 4 years.

Glad you already have everything :)

Moto-east makes nice stuff. If I had an NC I would be bugging them for parts. I seem them running cars at the track days and they are quick. Then again, they are only 40 min from me.

Yea they are close to me as well as I am in NJ. Wanted to go with someone local. Going away this weekend so wont be able to work on the car.

Attached here are some pics of the car finally!

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...9096eb7f0f.jpg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...e0f96caf41.jpg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...46f02afcf1.jpg

Here is what I did with the Foamectomy with custom Memory foam replacing the stock seat foam to still maintain some comfort but with the benefit that it compresses down to almost nothing, giving me some good extra headroom.

I vote for the NC. Since the engine is bigger and makes similar power before boost, you'll be able to reach your power goals more easily and with a more conservatively tuned, and therefore more reliable, turbo setup.

However, if that was my price range, I would be looking for a clean RX7 FD. Just sayin.

***Edit*** Read to the end of the first page and thought it was the end of thread. Now I feel silly.

Going NC+ Turbo definitely seems like a better way to go than Abarth, at least if performance is your main thing.

Definitely keep us posted.

Do we need a thread title change? Pretty sure we need a thread title change.