Adaptronic ECU from Oz... WTF?
 

So I was doing some homework for another project and ran across this thing?
I've never heard of it... but it says Standalone PnP for all years Miata and has a shit-ton of features... everything MS seems to have, plus Closed-Loop EBC and VVT Control. Is this thing the missing link between Hydra and MS for 99+users???

It's $1200 shipped to the US:
http://www.boundaryengineering.com/ecucatalog.php

Here's the main website from Australia with all the specs:
http://www.adaptronic.com.au/

Saw that a while back. Looks interesting. Someone go buy one and report back.

why not just ask TravisR to tell you what's so great about it.

I don't have any personal experience with this ECU, but some of the members of the Aussie MX-5 forum do.

http://mx5cartalk.com/phpBB-3.0.2/index.php

J

The NA version doesn't specify 1.6/1.8/or both...but didn't the NA's all come with the 1.6 in europe? Which would mean it may not be plug and play with 94-97 1.8L NAs

NA's? Who cares? We've got MS for that.

I'm excited about the fact that it's STANDALONE for 99+ cars and will control VVT.

I was reading however that the RPM cells in the timing tables can only be set at 500rpm increments. It's still a 3D table, so it'll extrapolate... but I can't find the size of the tables or how people are making out with the thing.

It looks like they're in a continual state of development on the software... and if a little resolution is the only real downside, it has to be on the priority to "fix".

I've searched on the Aus forums and there's nothing that helps.

Been more in-depth in on the Oz boards and found some cool stuff. There's at least one guy running 350whp+ on a 3071 with this thing.

I checked out some of the software pages and it's got some cool features.
The EBC runs closed loop and it looks pretty easy to limit boost per-gear... that would be awesome. The VVT table has good resolution and appears highly adjustable at multiple user-set RPM points.
The fuel table looks to have much better resolution than MS but I can't find a whole lot on the timing tables.

http://www.boundaryengineering.com/a...ecumiatana.php
Check out some of the software pages here... the language of the pages seems really dumbed down. I think I can actually make sense of what the software does. That's one of my main complaints about MS... you need to know a good deal about electrical shit to decipher exactly what you're doing when you change the parameters. These pages try to tell you in english what the function is.

For $1100, this thing looks fucking awesome... what's the catch???

I was just perusing the installation manual. It's downloadable. Looks pretty detailed. Might have to read the whole thing.

Sam: The 500 rpm increments are only valid if using a 15,500 redline. If you use a 7,750 redline, it is 250 rpm increments, per the manual. It has a serial WB input for an LC-1 and others. Starting to look like an option. The harness is PnP.

The Adaptronic is nothing new, but not many people outside of Australia are using it...

Seams like a great alternative. What is the catch?

As Braineack said, the price.

That ECU has been around for some time- it's nothing new, and it's a perfectly good device from what I hear. It just happens to be a bit on the pricey side.

For $1200 shipped to the US, I'd save a little more and go with the AEM and figure out how to wire it in.

I run this E.C.U. on my car and I can tell you its a great unit. The guys in Australia are very knowledgable to work with as well. The major advantage of this unit as far as I can tell is that it looses absolutely zero control from the OEM unit. I've even set the E.G.R. to work on my car. I was really worried with going to a standalone that I'd have a hack fix, but thats just not the case with this E.C.U. There are tons of maps and logic controllers, and ofcourse the control of V.V.T to do everything the stock computer does.

I've also got a very solid map for a stock miata without the F.I. portion yet which gets shipped with the kits. I would highly recommend you install this before you go forced induction as there is a learning curve with going from turn key stock to stand alone. The software helps and it is easy to use but still there is a bit of an uphill battle in realizing what all these features do.

I will in the next couple of months be adding a plug and play launch control and traction control feature to control slip angle in corners, and bite off the line.

Here's what I'm looking at.
It's $1160 plus the cost of a MAP sensor ($88). You'll need a wideband on top of that... call it $200. I guess $1400 is your OTD price. I can't see where it claims "MAF delete" anywhere, but I don't see anybody running 350whp through the stock MAF of any year, so I'll assume that's part of the deal.

One drawback is as Stein mentioned... 250rpm increments on the fuel table... and I still have no idea what it will do for spark? I'm just not sure that's enough fidelity to safely run the power I'm considering. Even being 3D interpolating between the RPM's. What happens if I need cells to read 2800/3000/3200 during boost onset? Maybe it is enough... I don't have the tuning knowledge to know whether this is a big deal or not.

Other than that, it would appear to do everything MS does with a host of other shit. It also does VVT... which we know is worth a bucket-load of torque as witnessed w/the 01+ Hydra guys posting their dynos recently.

How much better is Hydra? Hydra has onboard MAPsensor and Wideband. Hydra has infinitely variable huge ass tables. It has fully adjustable VVT control. Hydra is also $800 more and the software has been said to suck... but you get FM help. It looks like Hydra it a better unit, but it better be for the cost.

The Adaptronic looks like it fits in exactly between MS and Hydra in functionality as well as price if you're talking about PnP. There is no MS PnP for 99+ cars (which is a fucking crime)... and although Chad and others have worked almost all the bugs out to get parallel functionailty, there is still no VVT control. Maybe AbeFM will prove his worth and figure it out... but for now, it's not there.

For $1400, I'd say it's perfectly priced. I hope in the next few months, it gets a bigger following on Aus and people start generating MAP's and working the bugs out. I would like to see A LOT MORE from the company on exactly what it's capabilities are. There isn't a lot of specific information on the websites about what exactly it will do, spoken in English so a NOOB could understand EXACTLY how it stacks up against other ECU's. The Adaptronic website . It doesn't say anywhere about what it CAN'T do.
This page tries to compare ECU's, but Hydra and MS aren't on it:
http://www.adaptronic.com.au/comp.php

On that page where it says "RPM POINTS 32" and "LOAD POINTS 16" mean it's a 32x16 table for fuel?... and using a 7500rpm redline means I can make each RPM approx 250rpm apart?

Can anybody decipher how TIMING works with this ECU?

Yes, 31 points per the installation manual. You should read it-there is a lot of information in it. It's 93 pages. I scanned it, but it needs an in-depth read.http://www.boundaryengineering.com/ecu.php and download ECU Documentation. It covers timing as well and should answer your questions. The only thing I didn't see is the CAS/ no CAS thing for 99+. I kept seeing references to a CAS, but that may have been just different examples. Like I said, I didn't have a chance for a solid read.

I'll run through with you my install process and how long it took me, and the "other" stuff I needed to know.

The kits come with the map sensor the plug and play harness and the unit itself.

When you get it the first thing you have to do is make sure you can to the E.C.U. I had to use a U.S.B. to serial convertor. Once you can connect to it installation is very easy.

Unplug the stock E.C.U. and remove the 3 bolts supporting it. Plug in the plug and play harness, and connect the plug and play harness connectors to the Adaptronic. Uninstall M.A.F. and find yourself a cone filter and adapter (if you need one let me know I have some aluminum pipe I used for mine I won't charge you for it). Cut the M.A.F. connector off and wire 3 of those wires into the M.A.P. sensor (all shown). Connect M.A.P. sensor to any open vacuum port or buy a t adapter to split off an existing one. The map you'll get from me will get your car running non-turbo without setting up a wideband. This is the physical install portion this part took me about 30 minutes in the first install; if you can change an air filter you can install this stand alone.

Then from here get in the car turn the key to the on position. Use the computer and the software to load the maps included with the package into the E.C.U. This usually takes about thirty seconds... Turn key start car and drive. It should be literally that easy. Installing wide band is of course highly recommended, there are some sensor calibrations that you can do if you are an absolute stickler on accuracy.

As far as accuracy in the tables, when I was first looking into stand alone I thought the same thing. Millions of table cells were necessary. I can tell you this I have my stand alone set with the 7750 (250 rpm increment) table and it’s an absolutely daunting task to tune them all. Every tune site interpolates to the next linearly. So it’s not like its analog, and the majority of changes between each cell at the 250 R.P.M. levels are probably already nearly within the margin of error. We are talking .1 milliseconds of fuel when looking at changes in R.P.M. and .5 to .6 maximum for pressure. That means if you have this map tuned correctly that worst that’s going to happen is instead of 11.8 A.F.R. you run 11.7 or 11.9 A.F.R. Looking at my wide band there is no way that’s even measurable it usually fluctuates more than that.There is also transient fuel which takes care of rapidly changing M.A.P. or throttle plate conditions.


As far as timing it’s a timing table just like the fuel table and it actually has a learning feature built into it. In tuning your car the software will tell you if advancing the ignition timing will generate more or less power. It is the same size as the fuel table, and there is a transient timing which was recently added that I've never seen on a standalone before. Definitely a first to market I think.

That is exactly what I was looking for. I'm almost sold. I've got the LC1 already, so that cuts my cost down. It looks like there's plenty of functionality for my purposes. I don't want to be the American guinea pig, but for a PnP Standalone $1k cheaper than Hydra... this thing should be the ticket.

One question that might show my noobNess to NB's... what about IAT's? Does the NB have a separate IAT sensor from the MAF? The IAT sensor for the 1.6 is imbedded in the MAF.

I've also got a hard-on for PnP everywhere. Cutting the MAF harness won't be ideal for returning to stock. How about connectors? Sourcing a used 1.8MAF and gutting it for the connector would suit me fine... but perhaps another option already exists. Maybe just wire-end connectors crimped pushed into/onto the MAF harness would be sufficient so it doesn't need to be cut.

TravisR, I think you need a tester or two here in the States to start getting the word out on this thing. One or two smart guys who can start showing the capabilities of this ECU might be the advertising you're looking for. This thing is the same price as Xede and looks like it will do a helluva lot more. If it was 8months from now, I'd be your man... but my NB purchase won't happen until early next year. Please keep the community apprised as you upgrade the unit and add functionality. This ECU really impresses me.

IAT is stuck in the side of the stock airbox, MAF on top so they are separate.

stock NB IAT would have to be removed and replaced with something more durable since the NB sensor is really just stuck in by friction fit. most ecus will change over to the GM IAT (MS does, hydra does, tec does, aem can...)

Sam, 250 rpm breakpoints are plenty. honestly the hydra has 32 fully variable points and it's just too many. if I had 5 in vac, a few at transition, and a handful in boost, i'd be happy.

It's more than enough.

First off, break yourself of this metal construct that there is boost and then not boost, and that these are two separate things. They're not. Now that you're ditching the piggyback world and going full standalone, you will see that all of MAP is just a single continuum. There's no "transition" into and out of boost anymore- crossing over the 100 kPa row is no different than any other change in MAP once you're no longer fighting against a stock ECU every step of the way.

seriously- 250 RPM is a lot of resolution. A lot of us are still using the old 8x8 or 12x12 tables with our Megasquirts, which means appx. 1000 RPM steps!

Come on Sam. You know you want it! Buy it! Buy it! :) We can then follow your lead.

I assume this thing will idle 550's fine???

sam runs a standalone MS...he should know all this :rofl:

Crap, I didn't even realize I was responding to Sam. The avatar didn't look familiar. (Yes, I realize now that I look at it that it's the dome from an E-3)


So yeah. While I would find it hard to justify spending an extra $900 over MS for that, I don't think table size is a problem. Why the heck you even bringing this stuff up?

Joe, I've got some quirks about exactly what I'm going to install in my NB.
It has to be PnP out of the box. I don't mind learning the tuning software, but it has to start the very first time I turn the key and start auto-tuning as I back out of the driveway (or damn close to that).

I don't have the desire or electrical skills to do any real "work" on development of new stuff. You and Abe and some of the guys get off on making MS "do" all this cool shit and I'm in awe... it's just beyond me.

Having Chad build me an MS1 parallel and doing the minor work to get that running is the most amount of "work" that I'll be doing. My choices were either MS or Hydra at a huge cost difference. Xede just doesn't have the features I want. Now there's something EXACTLY in between... the relatively low price with all the functionality. If you've already got an LC1, it's half the price of Hydra for (on paper) what appears to be almost identical specs. The company and the unit itself needs some development time, but everything seems to be there. I wish I was ready for one now... and I'm flabbergasted I hadn't heard about this thing until 2 days ago.

For those wondering about my cryptic "forthcoming NB build"... it looks kinda like this in my dreamz:
White '99 Base model w/Sport package
Swapping over: Rollbar, Brakelines, Voodoo Knob, Uber-Seat, Filter, LC1, 550's... a few other minor things.
Already Have: 3.636gears.
Ready to purchase: 15x86UL's 225/45 Rs2's
Build: GT2860+S4Manifold (ceramic coated), 3"turboback, CXRacingIC 2.5"piping, Godspeed/Mishimoto, 2x12"Fans on Plexi, TT FuelRail, odds and ends.

All this will be on the stock motor... I don't see why 300whp isn't just a matter of turning up the boost providing the heat is manageable. I'll be looking at 8psi on wastegate and achieving 200whp for daily... plus around 12psi in the 260-270whp range on EBC. I'll have my trusty MBC mounted to give me the 300whp at the cost of 30seconds under the hood... unless there's a dual-map EBC option with a dash-switch.

When the motor lets loose, I'll rebuild it with some head-work, and throw in some mild internals and run 300whp daily. There will be an epic thread when I start this thing.

There is, according to the manual. Damn, I'm talking MYSELF into this thing.:giggle:

a cheap solenoid valve and switch can turn any boost control into a two stage. wastegate pressure is only a shunt connection away!

There's more than a few guys in the UK running the Adaptronic, all I have heard is good reports.

http://www.mx5nutz.com/forum/index.p...aptronic&st=20

Sam,


You could also try this site for more info. They use this ECU on their race MX-5 and have fitted them to a number of NBs.

http://www.mx5mania.com.au/product1382.htm

J

This thing is the tits. I'm sold. I'm sure there will be a lot more development and testing done over the next few months so it'll be ready for me when I go NB. It would be awesome for somebody here who's smart about such things get ahold of one and get crackin'.
As long as it comes with a MAP that will run naturally aspirated, I'll have the entire thing wired tight when it comes time for boost and be able to road-tune it myself before getting it on a dyno and doing some real work.

Is there anybody out there who's feelin' me on this? To me, it looks like ALL the funtionality of Hydra at half the price. Anybody see something I'm not?

If I had an NB and money, id buy it too. Go for it.

Been following every one of your posts ever since you decided you wanted to get an nb and are now up against the same decision I am buddy;)

this sounds great from what I gather (from this thread and links)....1100+ is still a bit much for my jew self, but im sure when I am ready to go and must make the decision this will be a heavy contender. The only thing that might sway me is if someone finally steps up and starts building ms parallel again:D

Your math is funny.

Hydra $2040
EBC solenoid $51.95
Total $2091.95

Adaptronic $1160
MAP $88
WBO2 $200
Total $1448

That's a ~$650 difference, not half.

I'd honestly go with the Hydra and wish I had done so when I bought my Link. Base maps and support from FM are totally worth the extra $$$ in my opinion.

btw, the 2.6 software and platform looks to be much better than the earlier software. lots of features added too.

I've already got the LC1... so that makes it $850 to me. Sorry I didn't get a calculator out. A lot of the Hydra "goodies" I'll never use. Does it really matter that it will do 8injectors? In any case, if the Aussies/Brits who are using this thing can generate a good base of knowledge and have identified any major problems... I can't see passing this up short of an unforeseen deal landing in my lap. The VVT control even gets me thinking I might look at some cheap '01's... for the torture.

The savings will let me get all the other goodies I was thinking I'd have to shed due to Hydras cost... like an oil-cooler, EGT gauge, and a set of track tires/wheels.


Of course, all this wouldn't mean shit if DIY would get crackin' on an MS PnP for 99+ cars.

:giggle:
It is quite possible I'm biased here towards my own product :giggle: I can say that with all the boosting going on in Australia and Europe I would have no problems supplying base maps to most setups. I have excellent relations with the different tuning shops abroad that are more than willing to help out. On top of that while it’s true I'm not a multi-million dollar company with a staff to answer phones I am a multi-degreed guy who personally designs, manufactures or tests every product that leaves the doors of my house and I personally answer the "phone." So if there ever was a guy who you wanted to talk to about one of the products I sell it'd be me, not a technical service representative. I also have the name, number, and email address of the guy who DESIGNED the Adaptronic on hand, and we have an excellent working relationship. There is no way someone could ask me a question about this product and I not know what the answer is within 24 hours.

in reality it's more that it has 4 injector drivers and can do either 8 cylinders batch or 4 sequential. I choose the latter.

Pulling the plug next week guys:)

hopefully everything goes as well installation and tuning wise as described by Travis and the forums I've been lurking on lately trying to pick up more info on this thing.

sweett cant wait to hear about it!