Thanks for the heads up on the metal cap. I'll have to pull it and inspect, don't remember if it has one. I know the Amsoil filter uses rubber molded into the filter there.
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Originally Posted by patsmx5
(Post 1294800)
Dan, what are you just saying?
Dann -2015 |
The things you only read on miataturbo...
Off to buy a bigger filter. |
Thisthreadisuselesswithoutdyno.
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Originally Posted by curly
(Post 1295086)
Thisthreadisuselesswithoutdyno.
:bowrofl: Oh yeah, it's faster with the air filter that has less restriction. Makes more power. :) |
remember how you thought your car was making 350 for a very long time, and then made 250 on a road dyno?
that's why everyone keeps bugging you for a dyno (but I agree with you that it's not really needed for this specific little experiment at least) |
Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 1295128)
...
(but I agree with you that it's not really needed for this specific little experiment at least) Still haven't dyno'd it, but it ran a 7.58 @ 95mph in the 1/8 a week ago. With the new stereo system installed. :dealwithit: :rofl: |
Did you happen to get a chance to look at the AEM Dryflow filter?
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No, but the Amsoil is a dry flow filter. Mail me one and I'll test it.
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Just for curiosity's sake, have you measured the pressure *outside* the air filter under the same conditions? Pressure drop may be caused by airflow inside your bumper cover.
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Originally Posted by patsmx5
(Post 1295143)
A dyno isn't needed to measure pressure drop of an air filter, in fact dyno's don't measure pressure drop. So we agree on that.
Still haven't dyno'd it, but it ran a 7.58 @ 95mph in the 1/8 a week ago. With the new stereo system installed. :dealwithit: :rofl: congrats what was the '60? got the slip? |
Electric fan+
cardboard + duct tape + length of transparent hose= actual repeatable testing rig You know, science and stuff... |
There's a clear trade off of filtration efficiency and filter restriction. Any filter with a lower pressure drop will let more dust through.
K&N filters can be bought in anywhere from 4 to 8 plys. I don't remember the exact numbers but the 4 ply has the lowest pressure drop but maybe 92% filtration efficiency. The 6 play had a slightly higher pressure drop and a 96% efficiency. The 8 ply had a much high pressure drop and a 98% efficiency. We went with the 6 ply because of the trade off of filtration efficiency to filter pressure drop. If you don't care much about filtration and performance is your only concern I'd see if K&N or any other company makes a 2 ply filter. |
Originally Posted by stefanst
(Post 1295198)
Just for curiosity's sake, have you measured the pressure *outside* the air filter under the same conditions? Pressure drop may be caused by airflow inside your bumper cover.
Originally Posted by sixshooter
(Post 1295216)
Electric fan+
cardboard + duct tape + length of transparent hose= actual repeatable testing rig You know, science and stuff...
Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 1295217)
ooh that's quite a lot better than the last one.
congrats what was the '60? got the slip?
Originally Posted by cyotani
(Post 1295220)
There's a clear trade off of filtration efficiency and filter restriction. Any filter with a lower pressure drop will let more dust through.
K&N filters can be bought in anywhere from 4 to 8 plys. I don't remember the exact numbers but the 4 ply has the lowest pressure drop but maybe 92% filtration efficiency. The 6 play had a slightly higher pressure drop and a 96% efficiency. The 8 ply had a much high pressure drop and a 98% efficiency. We went with the 6 ply because of the trade off of filtration efficiency to filter pressure drop. If you don't care much about filtration and performance is your only concern I'd see if K&N or any other company makes a 2 ply filter. |
I honestly think you're over thinking this filter testing. On Truck air intake systems that I'm familiar with at 500 CFM the intake system has about 20-25 in H20 (tested on a flowbench) mostly due to the throttle body for NA or turbo Inducer inlet for FI (usually about 3-3.5" inlet). Of that, 20 in H20 pressure drop the filter accounts for less than 2" H20 at 500 CFM. It's a tiny piece of the puzzle. Switching from high flowing 4 ply oiled filter to a highly restrictive 8 ply dry filter changed the filter pressure drop from maybe 2" to 2.5" H20 and the pressure drop of the system increased by 2%.
Basically, the filter is a very small piece of the puzzle in an intake system. I'd focus on keeping the filter inlet diameter larger than turbo inducer inlet (an inch larger diameter is good rule of thumb). An the path from the filter to the turbo or TB optimized. By the way, we've found that filter size (filter media surface area) affects only mass of dirt accumulation possible before an increase in pressure drop occurred. Larger filters, with the same outlet diameter, typically only give you an increase in mileage intervals between cleanings, not a lower pressure drop when clean. |
1 Attachment(s)
Yeah, this is the filter on my 250whp example above. Check the hose clamp on it for scale.
http://www.assassindirtbikes.com.au/images/R-1080L.jpg https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1451442495 Its 3.5" wide at its widest part. Made 250whp at the same boost as the regular large filters have. I think it makes little difference. Im surprised by this, but its my conclusion so far. Dann |
that tiny little guy is definitely choking down the setup, maybe not drastically, but it's not insignificant. I'll see if I can find results I've seen on a subaru forum. I really like it, and ran one before, and was saddened to find out it's insufficient.
But what Pat is playing with is not tiny. It's not even big. It's downright giant. So I doubt it matters. |
2 Attachment(s)
I mean look at this plot
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1451445093 and the filter it was made with https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1451445093 Pat's is like twice that size. And he's not even coming close to making that kind of power |
I guess someone made math for this stuff.
Kinda surprised this hasn't been referenced yet:
Air Filter | Turbobygarrett A few air filter company's web sites also have calculators: K&N Air Filter Facts You Should Know Doing the math for my car I'm going with this K&N filter K&N RR-3003. https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1451493649 At my goal of 250 crank hp, the math said 402 in^2 of filter material was needed and this one I estimated at ~417. I'm curious what Pats calculations will be and how the filters measure up. ~ Chris |
Originally Posted by patsmx5
(Post 1295109)
For sure, because seeing the pressure drop at the air filter change, the boost level change, and the AFR change isn't enough to detect a change in air flow.
Get it on the dyno. Do 3 base pulls, swap filters, then do 3 more. That'll give you actual data. I'm not going to lie, your numbers are not insignificant differences, but as others have said above, plenty of people have ran much smaller filters with much more dynoed power, so something's up with your setup, or your measuring methods. Give it a try, you'll stop wasting everyone's time on these conspiracy theories.
Originally Posted by nitrodann
(Post 1295522)
Yeah, this is the filter on my 250whp example above. Check the hose clamp on it for scale.
http://www.assassindirtbikes.com.au/images/R-1080L.jpg https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1451442495 |
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