Anyone have any brake questions?
#141
i was either going to get a laugh, or everyone hate me. so i went for it hahah
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#142
Because I absolutely hate rust removal, and based on the DBA videos posted on cleaning the front hub surface to ensure tolerances are correct; would anodizing or zinc plating the front hubs last or even be worth it? I wouldn't do it for superficiality, but if it helped me avoid having to do rust removal, and it lasted, I'm game.
Granted, I realize that the hub would have to be torn down to the bare housings in order to not cause damage to the bearings.
Granted, I realize that the hub would have to be torn down to the bare housings in order to not cause damage to the bearings.
#143
Because I absolutely hate rust removal, and based on the DBA videos posted on cleaning the front hub surface to ensure tolerances are correct; would anodizing or zinc plating the front hubs last or even be worth it? I wouldn't do it for superficiality, but if it helped me avoid having to do rust removal, and it lasted, I'm game.
Granted, I realize that the hub would have to be torn down to the bare housings in order to not cause damage to the bearings.
Granted, I realize that the hub would have to be torn down to the bare housings in order to not cause damage to the bearings.
I Get those foam sanding blocks from Home Depot Racing, hit the hub with wd-40, Sand for 5 min, and it's ready to go.
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Last edited by OGRacing; 11-11-2014 at 09:45 AM.
#144
Found this nice video From stop tech on how flexy Factory calipers are. before you start knocking the results member that this test is at room temperature, with a hand pump. Normal Brake system will see 1200-1500psi. at a race a calipers can see >600*
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#145
anyone have any more questions?
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#146
Cost being a non issue,
What system would you spec for a 300 Whp 2400lb miata that sees limited track time, (4-5 events a year on dedicated slicks), few autocross on street tires rs3v2, and 10,000 miles of stretch use?
Only requirements are; e brake needs to be there, and I would prefer to keep the 6uls.
I'm good with swapping pads and rotors for the events, and I despise **** feel.
Low intial torque is great, but I'd like to keep modulation as well.
What system would you spec for a 300 Whp 2400lb miata that sees limited track time, (4-5 events a year on dedicated slicks), few autocross on street tires rs3v2, and 10,000 miles of stretch use?
Only requirements are; e brake needs to be there, and I would prefer to keep the 6uls.
I'm good with swapping pads and rotors for the events, and I despise **** feel.
Low intial torque is great, but I'd like to keep modulation as well.
#147
Cost being a non issue,
What system would you spec for a 300 Whp 2400lb miata that sees limited track time, (4-5 events a year on dedicated slicks), few autocross on street tires rs3v2, and 10,000 miles of stretch use?
Only requirements are; e brake needs to be there, and I would prefer to keep the 6uls.
I'm good with swapping pads and rotors for the events, and I despise **** feel.
Low intial torque is great, but I'd like to keep modulation as well.
What system would you spec for a 300 Whp 2400lb miata that sees limited track time, (4-5 events a year on dedicated slicks), few autocross on street tires rs3v2, and 10,000 miles of stretch use?
Only requirements are; e brake needs to be there, and I would prefer to keep the 6uls.
I'm good with swapping pads and rotors for the events, and I despise **** feel.
Low intial torque is great, but I'd like to keep modulation as well.
track pads go the PFC 01 are a good fit for a high horsepower miata. With more hp your leaving the "momentum" classification behind, and starting to enter the GT car classification.
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#148
Originally Posted by Girz0r
What do you make of this DBA 4000 Rotor failure? Factory defect?
DBA 4000 Rotor Failure at Phillip Island on Evo 9 - YouTube
My first questions are "What pad, what temp?"
But for it to snap off like that, it's hard fathom if a pad could be 'that' grippy.
Side note, I have some old DBA drilled/slotted rotors (HP Plus pads) on now, I had thought about getting DBA 4000s 6x6 slot rotors (non T-style) in the future. Should I be concerned?
DBA 4000 Rotor Failure at Phillip Island on Evo 9 - YouTube
My first questions are "What pad, what temp?"
But for it to snap off like that, it's hard fathom if a pad could be 'that' grippy.
Side note, I have some old DBA drilled/slotted rotors (HP Plus pads) on now, I had thought about getting DBA 4000s 6x6 slot rotors (non T-style) in the future. Should I be concerned?
You can see in the Picture. By the white arrows the difference in transfer layer thickness. the Dark blue is much thicker then the light blue. this is telling me the rotor is "coning". you can also see the inside 1/4 diameter the transfer layer is basically gone. so the rotor is coning outward towards the spokes of the wheel. when a rotor get's hot it wants to move. it will deflect towards the hottest side of the rotor, This deflection looks like the cone of a speaker and referred to as "coning". if you have cooling ducts, it will bend inward, no cooling ducts it will bend outward. this coning is telling me the rotor is under very heavy thermal Load, AKA it's really hot. when you get a fixed rotor like this it can fracture the mating surface. The opposite to a fixed rotor would be a floating rotor.
The red arrow you can clearly see the outline of a brake pad. it I would assume that is from factory ABS engagement. having a rotor at thermal capacity then hitting it with Factory ABS is a sure way to destroy a rotor.
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#149
Alright, time to lob some stupid questions:
fixed caliper = sets of opposing pistons (?)
floating caliper = pistons on one side (?)
Educate me as to why its a terrible idea to do dynalights up front, then move my front calipers to the rear. I assume it won't even mount up, but there are probably a ton of brake bias issues I'm too ignorant to think of.
Several times you mention that steel wheels comprise part of your ideal brake setup. Why?
fixed caliper = sets of opposing pistons (?)
floating caliper = pistons on one side (?)
Educate me as to why its a terrible idea to do dynalights up front, then move my front calipers to the rear. I assume it won't even mount up, but there are probably a ton of brake bias issues I'm too ignorant to think of.
Several times you mention that steel wheels comprise part of your ideal brake setup. Why?
#150
Floating calipers, have pins and the body of the caliper slides on the pins.
Educate me as to why its a terrible idea to do dynalights up front, then move my front calipers to the rear. I assume it won't even mount up, but there are probably a ton of brake bias issues I'm too ignorant to think of.
The oem front calipers have a 3.17^2” piston area. The stock rear calipers have a 1.25 dim Piston, that equates to 1.23^2” of area. The hydraulic advantage difference in percentage would be 83.68% increase.
so increasing a rotor size on the front from 10.5 to 11.75 is a 11% increase in front tq.
Decreasing caliper size (hydraulic advantage) from 3.17^2” (oem) to a dynalite 3^2” is a 5% reduction in front Tq
Assume you have matching pads front and rear. The 6% increase in front tq from a daylight 11.75” kit will not be enough to overcome the increased 85% of tq now in the rear.
Several times you mention that steel wheels comprise part of your ideal brake setup. Why?
This 11” brake rotor stuff is not going to do the job. This is why you hear so many complaints about the dynalites being sub-par, the system is being overloaded. Thankfully we can use parts off circle track cars. They have similar power to us and have about 300-400 extra lbs. so the braking components are cheap. But they use steel wheels. In order to fit a 12” rotor and 11.75” rotor rear we will need a set of steel wheels. And if someone has a 400 hp monster with 275 slicks that is exactly what they need.
for the record A Corvette PFC BBK retails for around 7-8k depending on options. A PFC BBK for a circle track car is 4000. That’s 4 monoblock calipers with massive pistons, floating rotors, the works! But we need a steel wheel to fit it onto a miata.
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#152
i use antiseeze. i think in another thread we discussed how one bottle will last you 200 years.
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Last edited by OGRacing; 11-19-2014 at 03:26 PM.
#153
OK, I'll bite.
Caliper flex has been discussed in their thread and the Dynalite has been mentioned to be a pretty flexy caliper. There have also been discussions here on MT regarding using the Dynapro radial mount with custom brackets. Do you have thoughts regarding the quality of the two calipers and the pad life someone could expect in apples to apples track use?
My car is ~2,300 pounds, ~300whp on NT-01s with Aero and is trailered to track days and occasional time trials. I'm using the complete Mazdaspeed braking system (1990 chassis) including the ABS, 15/16" master and run XP12 or better Carbotechs with good results. I have never been able fade the brakes and feel like I have good modulation. There are very few cars on the track I don't devour under braking including most Miatas.
I get a bit of pad taper and the front pads generally last 5 or 6 days which is a bargain compared to consumables on a lot of common track day cars but I'm greedy. I'd like more pad life and would really like a fixed caliper compared to the OEM sliders.
My car is pretty typical in weight and power output so I'm sure plenty of people would be curious to hear your recommendations on the best OTS brake setup for this application. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with the community!
Caliper flex has been discussed in their thread and the Dynalite has been mentioned to be a pretty flexy caliper. There have also been discussions here on MT regarding using the Dynapro radial mount with custom brackets. Do you have thoughts regarding the quality of the two calipers and the pad life someone could expect in apples to apples track use?
My car is ~2,300 pounds, ~300whp on NT-01s with Aero and is trailered to track days and occasional time trials. I'm using the complete Mazdaspeed braking system (1990 chassis) including the ABS, 15/16" master and run XP12 or better Carbotechs with good results. I have never been able fade the brakes and feel like I have good modulation. There are very few cars on the track I don't devour under braking including most Miatas.
I get a bit of pad taper and the front pads generally last 5 or 6 days which is a bargain compared to consumables on a lot of common track day cars but I'm greedy. I'd like more pad life and would really like a fixed caliper compared to the OEM sliders.
My car is pretty typical in weight and power output so I'm sure plenty of people would be curious to hear your recommendations on the best OTS brake setup for this application. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with the community!
#154
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Mr. Hyde, there was a huge difference in both feel and braking capacity when switching to the V8Roadsters 11.75/Dynalite kit (BTW, this is very similar to 949 kit but different from Trackspeed kit from what I understand). I graduated up from stock calipers and rotors to 11 inch Corrado rotors, and then to this. The feel is significantly better.
I am also using the PF01 pads sourced from OG Racing right now. Pads for the Dynalite are much cheaper than for stock calipers. The PF01 compound doesn't have huge initial bite and also doesn't ramp up in torque as it gets hotter, but rather gives a linear increase in braking. More pressure equals more braking. They are very controllable in that regard. I find myself not locking up a wheel as easily as I did with other pads and the flexy stock calipers which seemed to be very vague now that I have upgraded.
I am also using the PF01 pads sourced from OG Racing right now. Pads for the Dynalite are much cheaper than for stock calipers. The PF01 compound doesn't have huge initial bite and also doesn't ramp up in torque as it gets hotter, but rather gives a linear increase in braking. More pressure equals more braking. They are very controllable in that regard. I find myself not locking up a wheel as easily as I did with other pads and the flexy stock calipers which seemed to be very vague now that I have upgraded.
#155
That’s easy one.
...
When a miata has 300hp it is no longer a Miata you need to start thinking like a GT car.
This 11” brake rotor stuff is not going to do the job. This is why you hear so many complaints about the dynalites being sub-par, the system is being overloaded. Thankfully we can use parts off circle track cars. They have similar power to us and have about 300-400 extra lbs. so the braking components are cheap. But they use steel wheels. In order to fit a 12” rotor and 11.75” rotor rear we will need a set of steel wheels. And if someone has a 400 hp monster with 275 slicks that is exactly what they need.
for the record A Corvette PFC BBK retails for around 7-8k depending on options. A PFC BBK for a circle track car is 4000. That’s 4 monoblock calipers with massive pistons, floating rotors, the works! But we need a steel wheel to fit it onto a miata.
...
When a miata has 300hp it is no longer a Miata you need to start thinking like a GT car.
This 11” brake rotor stuff is not going to do the job. This is why you hear so many complaints about the dynalites being sub-par, the system is being overloaded. Thankfully we can use parts off circle track cars. They have similar power to us and have about 300-400 extra lbs. so the braking components are cheap. But they use steel wheels. In order to fit a 12” rotor and 11.75” rotor rear we will need a set of steel wheels. And if someone has a 400 hp monster with 275 slicks that is exactly what they need.
for the record A Corvette PFC BBK retails for around 7-8k depending on options. A PFC BBK for a circle track car is 4000. That’s 4 monoblock calipers with massive pistons, floating rotors, the works! But we need a steel wheel to fit it onto a miata.
#156
steel needs less material. so the inner barrel is larger. NASCAR runs 15" wheels and we fit a massive PFC 6 piston caliper with 323mm rotor in those. our miatas are lucky to get a 299mm rotor and a dinky wilwood caliper in a aluminum 15" wheel.
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#157
Mr. Hyde, there was a huge difference in both feel and braking capacity when switching to the V8Roadsters 11.75/Dynalite kit (BTW, this is very similar to 949 kit but different from Trackspeed kit from what I understand). I graduated up from stock calipers and rotors to 11 inch Corrado rotors, and then to this. The feel is significantly better.
I am also using the PF01 pads sourced from OG Racing right now. Pads for the Dynalite are much cheaper than for stock calipers. The PF01 compound doesn't have huge initial bite and also doesn't ramp up in torque as it gets hotter, but rather gives a linear increase in braking. More pressure equals more braking. They are very controllable in that regard. I find myself not locking up a wheel as easily as I did with other pads and the flexy stock calipers which seemed to be very vague now that I have upgraded.
I am also using the PF01 pads sourced from OG Racing right now. Pads for the Dynalite are much cheaper than for stock calipers. The PF01 compound doesn't have huge initial bite and also doesn't ramp up in torque as it gets hotter, but rather gives a linear increase in braking. More pressure equals more braking. They are very controllable in that regard. I find myself not locking up a wheel as easily as I did with other pads and the flexy stock calipers which seemed to be very vague now that I have upgraded.
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#159
no advertisement about it. Straight and simple facts.
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