can't get it to start!
 

99 miata
60k miles
ran great then stalled at a light
no turbo
no start
backfires out of the intake.
i replaced the cam sensor, and spark plugs. i also put a new to me coil pack on. i can hear the fuel pump and smell gas after cranking. the crank bolt is tight, the timing is dead on and tight.

i tried a compression test and i got #1 60 #2 90 then i gave up because i guess i could not get it on tight. i just did the head gasket with arp studs/timing belt(after doing this it ran for about 1month great till this happened)

You are frakking HORRIBLE at describing symptoms.

Help us help you. Take a few minutes to write out your problems in a good chronological and sequenced order:

My money is on you not properly tensioning your timing belt. Your intake cam has slipped several teeth relative to your crank.

Thats better.

If you're backfiring out of the intake, your timing is FAR from dead on.

Either that, or one of your cams is broken.

p.s. Next time you ninja edit to fix something I called you out on, I'm going to kick you in the nuts.

hahaha, but the timing on the 99 is not adjustable? the cam sensor is not adjustable either.

Given the combination of backfiring out the intake and the very low compression numbers on cyl #1, could it be that you have an intake valve which is burnt / stretched / otherwise not seating properly?

If you have access to a leakdown tester, now would be the time to use it.

EDIT: I just re-read everything and saw the "no start" part of the problem. :)

Are you absolutely, 100% certain that your cam timing is correct? I've never seen it happen personally, but stories abound about loose cam belts jumping a few teeth.

Of course the timing is adjustable - in 1 tooth increments.

When you say "the timing is dead on, and tight"

"the timing" refers to the positions of the intake cam, the exhaust cam, and the crank, the spark time, and the injector pulse, all relative to one another.

Since your intake cam is matched to your camshaft angle sensor on the '99, we can determine that your intake cam is not rotationally aligned with at least one of (if not all of) the aforementioned parts or processes.

well when i did the head gasket a while back i did the valve seals and its been running great till now. the timing belt is on

OF COURSE the timing belt is on. Without the timing belt on, you wouldn't have backfiring because you would have no firing at all. You also wouldnt be injecting any fuel.

What we're saying, very pointedly, is that "the timing belt is on incorrectly". We are not suggesting that you put it on wrong, because as you mentioned, it obviously ran after the timing belt change. We are suggesting that the timing belt has slipped across one of the three pulleys that it operates about. Your symptoms are congruent with the diagnosis, and you have yet to give us reason to believe otherwise.

i said timing belt on as in its on the right way and tight i checked it

Meaning all your timing marks still line up correctly, right?

yes. i also just ordered brand new coil packs and a new crank sensor.. there gos 300 bucks

You should do a compression test on all cylinders. You should also quit ordering random parts till you diagnose the problem.

A couple of diagnostic tests might be in order here, before you go blindly throwing parts at the car.

1: Have you tried removing the voodoo box, and any other electronic mods?

2: Have you plugged an OBD-II scanner into the car to see what it has to say?

3: Do you have access to a leakdown tester?

edit: lordrigamus beat me to it. :D

Maybe, but yours was more detailed and informative. I yield the floor to you, sir.

1. yes i removed it and put it back on. it stalled and would not start before i turboed it.
2. yes and no codes
3. no how much? how does it work

Can you run those compression numbers by me again? What's #1 60 #90 mean?

Do you have access to a scan tool?

yes i have a obd II reader and theres no codes. i did not do the test because i could not get it tight in the spark pulg hole

Why? Is it one of the ones you have to hold in the plug hole?

it screws in. its brand new from harbor fright
the cheapest one, heres the link
http://www.harborfreight.com/flex-dr...ter-92697.html

Is it one of those cheesy push on ones or is it a threaded tester? Either way those numbers are way low.

Like another poster said, leakdown test sounds like the way to go. Make sure your at TDC on the cylinder(s) you're testing and keep the regulator set below 50 psi. Listen for air exiting from the throttlebody or exhaust pipe.

Your sure all the timing marks are correct?

Man, there are just so many different things that could be wrong here...

I don't think it's the crank or cam sensors. Those would almost certainly throw a CEL.

Could this be a fueling problem? Dead pump, clogged filter, faulty FPR, something in that neighborhood? It would be convenient if you were able to insert a pressure gauge between the fuel rail and the hose feeding into it.


To answer the question, a leakdown tester is a gadget you stick into the spark plug hole (similar to a compression tester) but you then hook it up to an air compressor and blow pressurized air into the cylinder, with a gauge to measure how much of it is leaking out. If there is serious leakage, you can then use your eyes and ears to figure out where it's leaking from. Bubbles in the radiator = HG, flow out the oil cap = rings, flow out the tailpipe = exhaust valves, flow out the TB = intake valves.

Well then screw it in tight and check your other cylinders. You need accurate compression numbers. This will give an idea as to the condition of the valvetrain and whether it's isolated to one cylinder or all cylinders. This will help in your diagnosis.

does the air intake temp sensor have to be in the intake pipe? it was before and now i mounted it next to the air filter

As long as the hole is plugged it's fine. Do you have the turbo on anymore or not? The og post said no turbo?

There's another good idea- massive intake leak. Any pipes or hoses loose?

no, no intake leak. the turbo is on now the car stalled and would not start so i put it on while it was sitting

Wait. Let me be sure I've got this right:

First, you were driving the car, and it stalled and would not restart.

Then, rather than finding out what was wrong and fixing it, you installed a turbo on it?

That's the impression I got from the unedited post, but I didn't want to be the first one to say it

:buffon: IDK, too soon maybe?

yes because i started it one day and it ran on only 1&4 cyl. so i figured it was the coil pack. i then put the turbo on when i was waiting for the parts to get it. i got a new to me used coil packs. right now i am waiting on brand new ones to try again

STOP BUYING PARTS RIGHT NOW YOU MORON

Joe, you're absolutely right.

Nicky (that's what I'm calling you now), please stop throwing parts at the car. I need you to do a couple things.

Take pictures of your engine bay, with close ups of the turbo and turbo manifold, valve cover, and intake manifold, especially if you have any fueling systems bolted to your firewall.

Then I need you to upload those pictures on to your computer, then to photobucket.com, then on to this site for us to look at.

Secondly, I need you to take out all of your spark plugs, put them back in the spark plug wires, place them carefully on the valve cover, and take a video of them while you hold the starter on for ~5 seconds.

Then, I need you to take off all the timing belt covers, put the crank at TDC, and take a good, in focus picture of the crank sprocket, and both cam sprockets. Take the two cam sprocket pictures straight in front of them, no angles.

When you have done all this, and are ready to post these pictures and videos, do so carefully, and with liberal and correct usage of the shift key.

okay thanks. i will do just that, give me a day because i have to get off work first

I'm actually disappointed. I was wondering how many pages of "I REPLACED MY COIL PACKS AND ADDED TURBO AND PLUGS AND WONT START" we'd get to before someone finally spoon fed him.

okay so i looked everything over and i am not getting spark on plugs 1&4 i swaped 3 different coils and no luck

Good lord it might not be the coil. Swap the wiring from 2&3 over to 1&4 and see if it works. The coil, and the other three, should be fine.

We still need those pictures, especially of the timing belt.

its not the belt. i am about to swap wires even know they got 1k miles on them. i tested power at both coils and get 12.2 on both, i did the signal and it kinda bounced around

Post pictures of the belt so that we actually believe you.

okay! all wires are good, coils are good also. theres a proplem with getting signal to the coil the fires 1&4 so what could that be?
ITS NOT THE BELT. i can see that its not sparking

Check wiring harness at ECU for continuity.

If no wires are broke/pulled out at the ECU Harness, then:

Check resistance across each of the wires from ECU to Engine harness to figure out which wire does not have continuity.

You can test the wire at different points and hope that it's broken in a place which is easy to repair (avg difficulty)
-or-
You can run a new wire and leave the old one in the harness (Hard)
-or-
You can remove and replace the broke wire in the harness. (A fucking pain in the ass)

Finally:
Your car stopped running, and instead of fixing the problem, you installed a turbocharger. Post pics of timing belt.

Wow this thread is a catastrophe.

I'm wondering if it's a CAS failure. Doesn't the CAS have something to do with the coil triggers?

I was almost as fail. I was running two cylinders and decided to convert to cops. Guess what, I was still on 2. Go figure.

well i just replaced the cam sensor and no luck. i was trying to add an extra ground and no luck. i switched everything around, and around and saw 1 little spark off number 1 plug for the first sec i turned the key then after that i got nothing all day. i have brand new coils on the way and i am hoping that its been some failing coils messing with it. so far i have 4 different used coils and they only work on side 2&3. i read on another forum about someone having this problem and it said that the resistance of 1 coil can make the other one not work.....

how would i use the multimeter? just by seeing if anything is traveling down the wires?

I told you it wasn't the cam sensor. You'd be getting a CEL.

If every coil you try works on 2&3, and none work on 1&4, the problem isn't the coils.


False, at least for Miata coils. The two sides are completely seperate, apart from sharing the same +12 and ground.

The problem isn't your coils.



Uhm, yeah. Wow.

Set the meter to ohms or continuity. Touch the probes together so you can see what it looks like when you've got a connection. Then stick one probe on either end of the brown and brown/yellow wires (one end at coil, the other at ECU. You'll probably need a length of wire to extend one of the probes.)

The beeping feature on most multimeters is really useful. If there's continuity, it beeps while it's connected.

Good to know about the CAS triggering the CEL, didn't know that.

+1 on coils being fine. You rewired it so your 1&4 is running off your 2&3 wiring like I told you, right? That'll tell you it's fine.

Hope you get her sorted out soon man, those coils I sent you sparked perfectly so I don't think a new set is the solution. Test all the pairs with your multimeter & rank them vs new just to be sure.

Good luck, at least you'll have sets of back-up coils! :)

yeah lol its my damn crank sensor i am waiting on a new one

Oh, how could I have missed something so obvious? Yeah, a bad crank sensor totally explains why you're getting spark on 2 & 3 but not on 1 & 4.

after days and days of reading a fooling with the car i was like DUHHH.... i dont know why i was not thinking this before. either that or a loose wire

I was being sarcastic. It's almost inconceivable that the crank sensor could be at fault here.

why is that? doesn't it send signal at 180 then send another signal at 360?

Not exactly (there are actually four pulses, unevenly spaced) but the general idea is correct.

My point is that if the sensor itself were defective, you wouldn't be getting spark on any of the plugs. If everything you've said is correct, that you have good and consistent spark at 2 & 3, but not at 1 & 4, the crankshaft sensor is almost certainly not at fault. It either works or it doesn't.

For what you've now spent on parts, you could have bought a new oscilloscope and figured out what was actually wrong. Or had the car towed to a shop and paid someone else to do it for you.

There are 3 grounds in the engine bay. One of them connects the drivers side firewall to the midpoint on the dipstick tube. The second is found at the front of the engine on the mechanic's left of the first plastic timing belt cover. The third is located at the rear of the intake manifold. I very highly doubt any of these is your problem, because I'm almost positive your problem is a broken wire, but check them all for tightness anyways.

As I've already suggested: Go to the hardware section of your local department store. Spend $20 on a multimeter and a spool of 16-18ga. wire. Test your wires from coil pack connector to ECU to find out which wire is bad. Replace the bad wire. If you don't know how to use a multimeter, they are generally packaged with instructional material. Alternatively, you can google that shit. Every mechanic worth his weight in dogshit will have a multimeter. They are about as indespensible as a good ratchet, and as easy to use as a good wrench. In this case, if you had and used a multimeter, you probably could have saved a couple hundred dollars by not buying coil packs and CASs. Neither of those are cheap - I know.

Do you by chance know a guy, goes by the name 'hyper'? I think you and he would make great pals!

wow...I don't even know where to start...


My uncle, who's a master mechanic likes to say: "Any monkey can swap parts, but a real mechanics will diagnose the problem first."


You've gone ten different directions in this thread, all while being clear as the Mississippi and ignoring good advice.

I would put your car back to stock, then start following the advice of Joe Perez. Stop buying coil packs. Also you don't need to say "new to me used" just used will get the point across, we will assume you didn't buy it from yourself.

yes i have a multimeter and yes it only sparks on 2 and 3. i don't know how a wire could loose when i have not touched anything up till that point it stalled. well crank sensor will be here soon. i guess wires go bad out of no where lol
i have to keep pushing the car up the street because the cops are trying to tow it

Has the engine ever been run? Running engines create vibrations....

...now I'm not sayin'...

...I'm just sayin'...

...You know what I'm sayin'?...

(Flounder fails at reading this thread before posting in it.)

A quick read through would have unveiled that OP can get good spark on 2&3, but when he moves the coil and wires to the 1&4 coil connector, there is no spark.