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Old 09-27-2009, 08:39 PM   #1
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Default Which cars share our BP 1.8 shortblock?

Ok, maybe I'm doing the search wrong (in which case tell me how to do it right and go ahead and lock thread ) but I can't find a thread with FACTS and not just speculation.


This is what I was told:

95-97 kia sephia
94+ mazda protege
?? year Escorts

Can someone correct me if I'm wrong, but more importantly tell me if there are any other cars or verify the info I've already gotten?

Thing is, I won't be building my motor for now. Just don't have the money. I'm going to take a look at a 99 short block on monday locally, but after that I'm going to a bunch of "pick-n-pull" yards and hopefully find something decent for cheap to throw into my car for now.

I want to make a list of motors that are "eligible" for a direct swap in so I have maximum selection.

Discuss (please)
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Old 09-27-2009, 09:18 PM   #2
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If I'm not mistaken, the 323 has the 1.8. I could be wrong though.
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Old 09-27-2009, 09:38 PM   #3
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The 323 had the 1.6, at least in the US. I think in Europe or Japan the 323 hanged around longer while we got the Protege.

Check out Solomiata : Engine : Mazda 4 cylinder guide

Check around the site. He has lots of info on the site on the miata engines especially for the BP engines.

Even though these other engine blocks are compatible there are several things that need to be changed when putting the front wheel drive engine in the rear wheel drive Miata.

Since you already have all the 1.8 parts it should be easier, but if I remember correctly the newer 99-05 intake manifolds do not match up with the earlier heads. I have also looked at the protoge 1.8 and kia 1.8. The KIA seemed the most compatible. The protoge's I looked at had diffrent cam drives and the cams looked different. I am pretty sure non of these engines have heads that flow as well as the famed 99-00 heads.

If you are only looking for a block you should be able to find some replacements but you might as well just rebuild what you have now since most of the older blocks have lower compression than your 2000.

These days you can get a Miata 1.8 for similar prices than these alternatives though.
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Old 09-27-2009, 09:48 PM   #4
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Thank you for the link, very helpful. I only care about the short block, so It doesn't matter if any of them have different heads/cams since I'll be reusing my original head/manifolds.

I don't want to rebuild my stock because for less money I can just get a drop in replacement from the junk yard. Or so I think. Plus if I'm going to rebuild I might as well go forged. That is what I'm staying away from for now.

About the lower compression, it is a GOOD thing I'm pretty sure of that
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Old 09-28-2009, 12:01 AM   #5
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BP

The 1,839 cc (1.839 L; 112.2 cu in) BP is a dual-overhead variant of the B8. It was first found in the 1989 Mazda Familia and American-market 1990 Mazda Protege LX. This engine was dubbed BP-ZE and featured a forged crankshaft, piston oil squirters, a structural aluminum oil pan with cooling fins, and Variable Inertia Charging System (VICS). This particular variant can be found in the following vehicles:

* 1989-1994 Mazda Familia GT (European & Australian Market)
* 1989-1994 Ford Laser TX3 (Australian Market)
* 1990-1994 Mazda Protege LX (with VICS)
* 1990-1991 and 1993 Mazda Protege GT (Canadian Market)
* 1990-1993 Mazda 323 (European Market)
* 1992-1993 Ford Escort LX-E
* 1991-1996 Ford Escort GT
* 1991-1996 Mercury Tracer LTS
* 1995-1997 Kia Sephia LS, GS
* 1995-1997 Kia Sephia RS
* 1994-1998 Mazda Familia (Japanese Market)
* 1994-1997 Mazda MX-5/Miata (this did not have VICS until 1999)

There is also a non-performance version that is most easily recognized by its black stamped-steel oil pan. It also features a cast crankshaft, no oil squirters, a plastic oil pickup tube and less aggressive camshafts. It is found in the 1995-1998 Mazda Protege ES.


Good luck with the hunt, brother.
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Old 09-28-2009, 12:08 AM   #6
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THANK YOU ALL so much. This is exactly what I needed.
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Old 09-28-2009, 09:12 AM   #7
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The only thing with a junk yard motor is that you have no idea what condition it is in. If you do it right you can cheaply, at least close to the cost of a junk yard engine rebuild yours and have a pretty much new engine that you know is in good shape. You don't have to go forged and upgrade rods.

Personally I ended up rebuilding the 96 1.8 I got for my engine swap just for that reason. The only machining that was done was to hone the block and I am paying extra to do a 3-angle valve job, but thats not needed. All that and hot tanking everything was only $130. Getting a ebay gasket, bearing and ring kit for close to $200 and thats with performance bearings as well. So even if you want to throw in another $200 for misc parts that you would probably replace in any case on a junk motor it really might be worth concidering. If you are swapping all your stuff over to another block in any case you won't have that much extra work to do the rings and bearings as well.

I know alot of people do the junkyard swap because of the ease and not having to deal with the rebuild. I just know I would like to know that the engine is in the best shape it can be, especially if I was boosting. Thats my take and you have to do what you have to do. A few years back a buddy of mine hydrolocked a diesel V-8 in an old Blazer while playing in the dirt. I helped him replace it with a junker engine, took almost a whole 4 day weekend with that heavy *** block. Well two weeks later it starts clacking and stuff. We pull the oild pan and BAM!!! a 2in square chunk of piston laying in the oil pan. Since then I have always at least attempted to tear a junked engine apart and rebuild it.

But then again if you are taking the head off in any case you will be able to check the cylinder bores easily. If you do that might I suggest that you pull the oil pan and a few rod and main caps. Get some plastigauge at the local parts shop and check all your clearances. It will take you an hr and then at least you will know how worn your junker is.

Ok, thats it for my Monday morning rave. Good luck!
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Old 09-28-2009, 09:26 AM   #8
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I never pull a junkyard engine from a car with a good body. I always get a wrecked one because you know it was a running driver when it was last used. I also look in the oil filler cap to check for excessive carbon buildup and other signs of poor maintenance. People leave clues as to the level of care and attention devoted to maintenance.

Good luck.
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Old 09-28-2009, 10:36 AM   #9
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It's not normally on lists of bp's but the block in 1.6 kia rio's looks strangely like a bp block, same oil pan too. The probability of different crank, rod or bore differences would preclude it from such lists.

Just throwing out an observation.
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Old 09-28-2009, 04:29 PM   #10
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Thanx for the advise guys. I have decided I will still go through with the pick-n-pull engine simply because its 160 total and I don't want to tear apart, hone, replace rings/pistons/etc and all that stuff.

Just got back from the junk yards. The candidate I have is a 98 protege that looks to be in pretty darn good condition (engine). Plugs are clean, no excessive residue or anything, no oil leaks, etc.

We are going to take a battery jumper there tomorrow and a compression tester, and check compression on the motor before we pull it.

Here's my question:

WHAT IS GOOD/AVERAGE COMPRESSION?
I'm assuming somewhere in the 180's?
Let me know please
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Old 09-28-2009, 04:42 PM   #11
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180 psi should be acceptable. I want to say, good is like 190 or 195. Last time I checked my old 1.6 it only had 178 on all 4 and runs like a champ. But since you will be checking the engine cold (most probably), 175 isn't horrible as long as it is even over the 4 cyls. Take some oil with you too so you can check to see if it is a ring or valve leak if you do have lower compression.

Ok, for a price of $160, ya it doesn't matter as much to do a rebuild. You might as well throw the junker motor in and then take your time building a monster block out of your old one. That is if you don't mind doing engine swaps.

One thing you might want to check is to see if the year Protege you are getting has the forged crank or not. I can't remember what years have them and which models.

Do a search on miata.net, there recently was a thread on the protege heads I think where someone mentioned which years have the cast cranks.

Whats wrong with your block by the way?
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Old 09-28-2009, 04:44 PM   #12
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Old 09-29-2009, 01:45 PM   #13
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Ok, makes more sense now. Make sure you check the protege cranks, unless you are planning on swapping in your current cranks. Is this your daily driver?
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Old 09-29-2009, 03:54 PM   #14
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Huge disappointment today. All the motors I checked were crap.
Guess I'll keep looking
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Old 10-01-2009, 04:13 AM   #15
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If you willing to come over the south bay and east bay i'd be more then happy to help you look around at the pick n pulls over here.

Last edited by railz; 10-01-2009 at 05:21 AM.
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Old 10-01-2009, 05:11 AM   #16
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Wow that's really nice of ya man. Well I'll keep trying with the local ones, but worst comes to worst, I'll have to make the drive down there
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Old 10-01-2009, 01:37 PM   #17
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Check car-part.com. I may need to replace my BP so I've been researching it as well and there is an Escort GT engine that is already pulled and compression tested with 72k miles 80 miles from me for $275. Lots of those places will also give a 1-3 month warranty.
Also, I would avoid any BP from 91 just to make sure you don't have to deal with the short nose crank issues.
Some more good info here:
Miata Engine Substitutes - MX-5 Miata Forum
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Old 10-01-2009, 04:01 PM   #18
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Default Good info, thanks!

Do you happen to know which of these blocks have the hot side oil tap that we always look for on the '94-'95 Miata blocks?

thanks,
Mike

Quote:
Originally Posted by sixshooter View Post
BP

The 1,839 cc (1.839 L; 112.2 cu in) BP is a dual-overhead variant of the B8. It was first found in the 1989 Mazda Familia and American-market 1990 Mazda Protege LX. This engine was dubbed BP-ZE and featured a forged crankshaft, piston oil squirters, a structural aluminum oil pan with cooling fins, and Variable Inertia Charging System (VICS). This particular variant can be found in the following vehicles:

* 1989-1994 Mazda Familia GT (European & Australian Market)
* 1989-1994 Ford Laser TX3 (Australian Market)
* 1990-1994 Mazda Protege LX (with VICS)
* 1990-1991 and 1993 Mazda Protege GT (Canadian Market)
* 1990-1993 Mazda 323 (European Market)
* 1992-1993 Ford Escort LX-E
* 1991-1996 Ford Escort GT
* 1991-1996 Mercury Tracer LTS
* 1995-1997 Kia Sephia LS, GS
* 1995-1997 Kia Sephia RS
* 1994-1998 Mazda Familia (Japanese Market)
* 1994-1997 Mazda MX-5/Miata (this did not have VICS until 1999)
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Old 10-01-2009, 05:19 PM   #19
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That link Clay posted showes which engines have the Forged cranks.
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Old 10-03-2009, 12:55 AM   #20
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Ok so I'll be checking out a couple engines I found at the local junk yards.

1) 98 JDM mazda protege long block 50k miles
2) 94 miata long block 50k miles

I'm kinda leaning towards the protege but its the JAP spec motor. As far as I know there should be nothing different about it, its got BP stamped on it, and looks identical to my miata block.

What do you guys think? The protege motor he's willing to give me for 100 bux less then the 94 miata motor. Both look really clean and good. Havent done compression tests but I'll do that and check plugs when I check them out.

Which one would yall get?
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