cooling options v.splitter
 

I'm about to get crazy with the cheese wiz. I have an r-pack lip, begi scooper, and here we go...should I:

a. keep the r-pack lip and get the begi scooper that fits below it?
b. cut the r-pack lip for the standard begi scooper, and make a big splitter for it?
c. something else

I still have to figure out the oil cooler too.

Also, do the r-pack lip brake ducts move enough air to be effective?

A
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Do you have pictures? I may want to buy one if you do something different.

a. don't cut it.

IIRC, Gary has brake ducting from the NB lip, and it works pretty good for him.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that my BEGI "street" reroute is good enough for the track this year. It sure as hell takes a long time to warm up now....

I wanna take it out on the Jan 19th trackday @ Harris Hill ($150). PM me for details, only open to certain clubs right now.

Chris

If you value a little ground clearance over the aesthetics of having an intact lip then I say go with B.

Also, you haven't updated your AV yet.

he uses the foglight ducts.

I'd call BEGi and ask for their experiences with the different scoops.

I'm going to just drop the car off with them on Sunday.

I don't know how many cars they've put their kits on which see track time though.

a splitter in front of the scooper is going to reduce the effectiveness of the scooper.

the splitter's job is to prevent air from flowing down under the nose of the car--and make it flow more over the top or into the mouth.

so you could:
* not get the scooper, but run a TDR splitter on your r-lip

* get the scooper and not run a splitter

* get a fancy splitter that has no middle and make something that has a reverse diffuser leading into the scooper. visit that fancy race car tech site you posted here a while back for ideas.

the r-pack lip would be cut, with the scooper in the cut out...then the splitter on the bottom of both the splitter and the air dam.



Does anyone know if the brake ducts in the r-pack spoiler are big enough to get the job done?

win.


I see no reason the ducts cant work....the odd shape sucks, but when i was looking at it, a simple rectangluar brake duct should be able to be fabbed to work with the hole...

then plumb to these:

http://www.iscracing.net/images/0miatabrakeducts.jpg

The R-lip ducts work well - if you add the hosing to compliment them. Gary is on the right track, and I have planned on the same. I have deleted the dust shields and will be adding ducts to go directly to the rotors. The holes I have cut in the bumper before I added the R-lip, will then be enlarged to make on continuous opening. Should look about like a Porsche Turbo at that point.
For the frustration it takes to find a lip these days.....I say do not cut it.
A scooper below that, will be very low....and will get abused as a daily.

oops nevermind

the scooper on the bottom of the splitter and air dam? that's what I'm saying is pointless. you're going to have a splitter prevent airflow under the car and then a scooper to.... do nothing.

no, the scooper would be above the splitter. i think that's win.

http://www.boostedmiata.com/random/splitter_scooper.jpg

that is what I was thinking. It would still have the shape with the TDR splitter (twice as big though), paint the scooper black, and run a tray back to the subframe.

I think this will make the most of cooling and downforce. Its really going to hurt my soul to cut that lip...big time. I think this is my best option, with the FM hood, to keep the car cool on the track...and prove everyone wrong about a turbo miata on the track.

OK then that is win. you could see how I was confused what with hustler saying he would cut the splitter and have the splitter below the splitter. splitter.

The m.net gods will send you to hell for cutting that lip.
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Hmmm.....seeing an example actually used, it doesn't look too bad.

that was a 3 second photoshop....

How strong will it be when you cut it? Is that over kill?
Now it is time to go to begi's site and see the scooper. I really like the looks of the lip. But not on my yellow car with the spoiler and rims it has. I guess, I need to make something out of sheet metal.

My brother is going with TDR's lip this income tax season.

the lip has enough bolls to keep it sturdy if cut...

if the splitter is attached to the scooper, shit will be solid.

Oh-yea, I think I'm going to get a breadpan, cut it out and brace it up. I'll attach the side of the pan that I cut out, to the top to pull and guide the air. Basically mimic this.......

I probably paint it semi black. I don't really want it noticeable.

That sounds like that would work well. If you do it cut small bits at a time. Take twice as long. LOL That way it will look perfect. I learned that from watching my friends cut what they think is right, and have gapping holes. LOL

Kinda like your strippers. But not a cute. :giggle:

Yep, it is always easier to take away than put back.
Hustler and I have been talking this over for a long time now. I don't have the need for a scooper (just yet), but Brain's quick edit shows that it would be fine and sturdy as well.
Anyone who has seen my car, knows I am not afraid of nibblers or hole saws.
My R-lip was cracked when purchased, but also came with a TDR splitter. My decision has been made, and I will be cutting yet again!
Hustler, may the cheez whizzin' commence.....

I doubt the effectiveness of a splitter that can bend so easily.

Still better than nothing at all. ;)

Maybe, but it seems like a waste of money.


If you're going through the effort you'd be better off using a much more rigid splitter that goes farther back and is supported alot better. All of the real and effective splitters I've seen are strong enough for you to be able to stand on them.

a 3/16" ABS sheet bolted in evenly in like 8 different places?

That is true and not debatable. My car is a dedicated "track rat" and will see a "proper" splitter when the need is present. A bird fart slows my car down right now, so the "free" splitter I have now is just fine.
That is like comparing a roll bar to a roll cage.....

It's more like comparing a rollbar to a style bar.

Can it support your weight? How far back does it extend?

Just my opinion, take it for what you will.

:bowrofl: Touche...that it is.

I am in agreement with you here....
Most of these TDR splitters are for daily driven cars and serve more for aesthetics than "true" performance. But they do work somewhat.....
If and when I go the "all out splitter build"...it will be in the same manner as Matt Andrews and his little beast of a car. ;)

:cool:


There are some really good threads on corner-carvers about DIY splitters.

I can understand how rigidity would be important, but why would it need to be strong enough to support a person's weight (~200#) for a splitter to be meaningful? Do you have a rough idea of the forces a splitter would experience on our cars at track speeds? And where are those forces being applied, primarily? I'm interested to know...
Thanks

Could the factory nose support my 300lbs Sumo weight? I doubt it.

It's gotta live in a very harsh environment without deforming or being damaged. It wouldn't be outside reality to generate your own body weight in down force over 100mph with a real functional splitter.

How embarrassing would it be to have the damned thing fall off the first time you hit a rumble strip at speed?

Mine will be sheet metal and bolted to something rigid. It will shit on your chest.

can a nagger get a link?

The Bell scooper is a work of art. Unfortunately it's not going to live a long life on a less than stock height car. My car is 12.x inches fender to hub (not that low) and I knocked the scooper off in about a week. And I was being mindful and careful. :(

However it was extremely functional. So I'm going to need to figure out how to run it again when it gets warm.

You knocked it off.

As for Huslter if you don't want to cut a prefect R-lip then try and find one that someone broke in half and cut that.

Hustler received the one that goes under the R-lip....and we both questioned as to how long it would last. Great piece of work, but that low will def. be the first thing that sees the carnage.

i think I have the one for the standard bumper. Either way, the shit doesn't fit ebcuase the hardware is weird.

Forgive me son...... too many cars and not one of them my own. ;)

Hustler, you're really overthinking all of this. You've got a vented hood, a reroute, and a big radiator. I've got a friend up north who has that combo and his car barely warms up. My car has a stock hood, stock coolant, and my fans aren't even wired in parallel, and I only overheat in the worst of conditions (100+ degree ambient). In addition, with your larger turbo and modest boost levels, you're able to run more timing which means less load on the cooling system in general.

Leave the scooper off completely. Put your oil cooler behind the intercooler. Get the car on the track and see if you need anything else at all. I'd bet $10 you don't.

+1 for savs comment.

You got too much time on your hands waiting for track days that you are just over analyzing everything. Get out there, beat on it, and watch the gauges. I'm sure you will be fine. Wouldn't recommend cutting up the lip though IMO.

I want to be able to get up in August in this car, and do a track day. I want to be able to go back-to-back on 30-minute sessions. I know someone who's raced a few turbo miatas who's overheated every one.

I'd love to keep the stock lip if possible...I guess I could always try to go without, and if it starts running hot, take off the r-pack lip and finish the track day, then get to cutting. Maybe I'll ask BEGi to make one since I already paid for it, but leave it off the car for now.

I still have to shroud the front of the radiator too.

I agree, only use a scooper if you do over heat.

But here in Texas it stays hot. 3days ago I walked around with a T-shirt on and my cousin dropped the top on his car, with no heater. 2 days ago it sleeted. And Sunday it supposed to be 74 degrees again. We go from extreme to extreme here. And about the last week of May. We hit regular high 90's to 100+. July and August are crazy HOT! Factory cars try to overheat at redlights sometimes.

But you have so much air flowing in that thing. And a lip too. I doubt that scooper will make that much difference.

Sell it to MEEEEE! LOL

We should bolt up a 17,000 BTU Window unit in the mouth. LOL

Sorry I thought that was funny.:giggle:

How many do you have????? If you paid for a race lip, get it.

I'm getting confused as to how many options you have. If the car is already at begi, and the lip is on the car. And they are going to make a scooper. Man let them look at the 2 together, they will make it right. Then no worry's.

You already paid for it.

But I think your car is so over kill, You need to push your 12psi on the track, And 22psi on the street!
I bet it is crazy fast..........