CXRacing oil cooler
I'm looking for a cheap oil cooler and these look pretty good. Anyone using one?
Another option would be to use an RX7 cooler. These are particularly nice with an integral t-stat. May have fitment problems due to its massiveness though. |
That's not a bad. I'd go for it. CXRacing puts together decent stuff. I rock a I/C kit from them.
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The trucool coolers work well and come in more manageable sizes.
TRU-Cool Oil Coolers It doesn't take much to drop the temp of your oil once it's outside of the block. |
i buy there stuff all the time for me and other people. stuff is not bad. and they are really close to my house. LOL
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Originally Posted by m2cupcar
(Post 409264)
The trucool coolers work well and come in more manageable sizes.
TRU-Cool Oil Coolers It doesn't take much to drop the temp of your oil once it's outside of the block. |
I agree with M2. I had an oil cooler that was a 9 or 10 row when I was SC'd, and even during 30 minute track sessions, the temps were great. Now, with the turbo, I am looking at most a 13 row.
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Originally Posted by soflarick
(Post 409462)
I agree with M2. I had an oil cooler that was a 9 or 10 row when I was SC'd, and even during 30 minute track sessions, the temps were great. Now, with the turbo, I am looking at most a 13 row.
Thanks for your replies. |
What sandwich adapter are you all running? Finding a cheap oil cooler isn't really the hard part. Finding a cheaper sandwich adapter (with thermo) and the lines and fittings really seems like the expensive part.
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Anyone want to comment on the efficiency of the B&M/TruCool style coolers vs. Mocal/Earl's/CXRacing? The Trucools look like nothing I've ever seen before, and the Mocal is like a little mini radiator. I have a TruCool 5.75x11 right now, and I am ditching it for the monster Rx7 cooler.
I use a Mocal sandwich plate with internal 180 degree thermostat, which should be around $120 including the BSP to -10AN fittings required to use it. I used push-lock fittings and hose to keep cost down from there. |
Sav, What kind of temps are you seeing with your current setup? What's the hottest it get and what Oil are you using?
Chris |
With Mobil1 10w30, I would see around 250-260 on a hot day. My temp gauge has been broken recently, but I think the temps have risen higher than that now since the car is going faster. 280+, or thereabouts. All the bearings I pulled out of my 99 motor, with 3k miles on it, were spun. This is WITH a 6x11 TruCool. On the new motor, I switched from M1 to 10w40 Rotella dino.
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I wonder if that's evidence the new formula Mobil1 isn't up to what the old "true" synthetic mobil1 was? A friend of mine ran the old mobil1 in the motorla cup in his firebirds. They saw 300f oil temps for the entire race (usually 3 hours) and never had an engine failure.
The rx7 oil cooler is massive. I can't imagine that won't have a positive impact on oil temps. Have you measured the capacity? My mercedes diesel 123 cooler holds a full quart. https://mercedessource.com/files/ima...lcoolernew.jpg |
Originally Posted by bryanlow
(Post 409601)
Good to know. What other cooling mods do you have? My preference is to keep the stock radiator and go with a bigger oil cooler to keep temps down. I could be wrong, but I'm guessing the larger temperature delta in an oil cooler will make it more effective at shedding heat than in the radiator.
Thanks for your replies. The PWR sprung a leak, so I replaced it with something recommended by an SM racer, forget the name right now. It's so thick I've had to flush mount the fans to the radiator. I had to ditch the old ISC Racing oil cooler setup since the BEGI turbo pipes interfere. So now I am going to get the Mocal sandwich adapter and a 12-15 row oil cooler. |
Originally Posted by m2cupcar
(Post 409264)
The trucool coolers work well and come in more manageable sizes.
TRU-Cool Oil Coolers It doesn't take much to drop the temp of your oil once it's outside of the block. 300 degrees? That sounds like death to me. I was running 280ish and decided to back off a bit to try and cool down a bit. Granted that was on top of overheated coolant as well. |
Originally Posted by Savington
(Post 409715)
Anyone want to comment on the efficiency of the B&M/TruCool style coolers vs. Mocal/Earl's/CXRacing? The Trucools look like nothing I've ever seen before, and the Mocal is like a little mini radiator.
Opinions? |
Originally Posted by soflarick
(Post 409781)
I had a PWR radiator, the stock Miata oil cooler, lots of air ducting, FM heat extractor hood, and a DIY front splitter/undertray.
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Originally Posted by Savington
(Post 409715)
I use a Mocal sandwich plate with internal 180 degree thermostat, which should be around $120 including the BSP to -10AN fittings required to use it. I used push-lock fittings and hose to keep cost down from there.
http://static.summitracing.com/globa.../hda-243_w.jpg |
bryan, i have a tru cool cooler in the same place your looking to do yours. Your welcome to come check it out. I was yet to see anything above 250* keep in mind i don't drive nearly as hard as sav.
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Originally Posted by thesnowboarder
(Post 409896)
bryan, i have a tru cool cooler in the same place your looking to do yours. Your welcome to come check it out. I was yet to see anything above 250* keep in mind i don't drive nearly as hard as sav.
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Originally Posted by bryanlow
(Post 409889)
Are there any inherent design advantages of the mocal plate over this $30 hayden unit?
It's possible that the smaller ports could come in to play in a longer track session. I'm running the smallest trucool mounted in the nose and my oil temps max'd at 225f on the hottest of days here in ATL. I do have a very larger radiator though. http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t...aseshroud5.jpg |
Got a Setrab unit instead
So I decided to go with a Setrab unit. Got it used off e-bay for $70. I like the fact that they are pressure tested to 10 bar. Maybe the cxr ones are too, but there's no mention of it on the website. Also, the Setrab brochure has lots of pretty graphs 'n stuff -- Always a plus. And it's made in Sweden so it must be good. :dunno:
http://www.bryanlow.com/pictures/P1070847.JPG Mounted in front of the LF tire. Fits very nicely, albeit a little close for comfort. http://www.bryanlow.com/pictures/P1070830.JPG http://www.bryanlow.com/pictures/P1070832.JPG I'm using the Hayden sandwich adapter plate. It uses a bimetal strip to close the bypass valve. It's clear that it's not a true bypass as some oil will always flow through the cooler. The valve just opens up a path of less resistance. Tested on the stovetop, the bypass closes right around 170°. I did a little porting to clean up the transitions and to remove some casting flash but overall its a good unit. http://www.bryanlow.com/pictures/P1070835.JPG Heat shrink tubing on the braided stainless http://www.bryanlow.com/pictures/P1070860.JPG http://www.bryanlow.com/pictures/P1070865.JPG http://www.bryanlow.com/pictures/P1070857.JPG Installed. Had to remove the OE manifold brace. Word of warning about the Hayden adapter: At first I screwed the OE filter back on. At startup I find oil spraying everywhere. There was about 2 quarts of royal purple on the floor before I realized what was happening and could get the thing shut off. As it turns out, the OE filter is too small for the adapter and didn't seal. There is no mention of this in the instructions.:vash: A larger diameter filter fixed the problem. |
I have a 13x6 tru-cool and saw 270-290* temps on the track. Matt Andrews ran the FM oil cooler kit in front of the steering rack with a scooper that Wagz and I made and he never went over 200* on the track with 18psi and 100* ambient temps.
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Originally Posted by hustler
(Post 415828)
I have a 13x6 tru-cool and saw 270-290* temps on the track. Matt Andrews ran the FM oil cooler kit in front of the steering rack with a scooper that Wagz and I made and he never went over 200* on the track with 18psi and 100* ambient temps.
When I planned out this install I considered the spot in front of the rack. It looked way too exposed. I didn't have any shrouding or a lower pan. Now that a pan is in place I see just how much room is down there: http://www.bryanlow.com/pictures/P1070889.JPG In retrospect I probably should have gone with the rx7 unit. Anyways to promote cooling, I've got a 1/4" gap between the bottom of the airdam and the pan, creating sort of a pseudo-splitter: http://www.bryanlow.com/pictures/P1070886.JPG When I get on the track I'll use longer standoffs for a 1/2" or maybe 1" gap. Might even create a little downforce.:D: Brake duct blows directly onto cooler too: http://www.bryanlow.com/pictures/P1070875.JPG If cooling issues arise, I'll try ducting from this angle: http://www.bryanlow.com/pictures/P1070874.JPG |
seal up that splitter at the air damn...retard. There's no point in using it with the shit install you have now. I saw 280 on the track...time to copy the racecar set-up.
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Originally Posted by hustler
(Post 415910)
seal up that splitter at the air damn...retard. There's no point in using it with the shit install you have now. I saw 280 on the track...time to copy the racecar set-up.
Wait, what? Why would it possibly be a good idea to seal it at the air dam? The gap there is simply letting more air in. Frontal area = good. Sealing it all sorts of other places is almost a requirement (under/ to the sides of the ic/rad, etc) but the air dam? If it stuck out past the air dam, then it wouldn't be producing much downforce like it is, but it doesn't, so I don't see an issue. |
Originally Posted by hustler
(Post 415910)
seal up that splitter at the air damn...retard. There's no point in using it with the shit install you have now. I saw 280 on the track...time to copy the racecar set-up.
I still have to make up a piece of L-metal to go under the intercooler. Then just watch the lap records fall by the wayside. LOL |
i like the way you mounted that, ive gotta turn mine so i know its full of oil and no air now :D
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Originally Posted by bryanlow
(Post 415779)
From what I see in your picture, you have the hoses mounted the wrong way - you use the lower port as the return one. The return hose should be the connected to the upper port of the cooler - otherwise you'll end up with air pocket inside the cooler. Swap the hoses (easiest at the sandwich side I guess) and make sure the upper port of the cooler is pointing a bit upwards so the oil pushes the air out into the hose. |
Originally Posted by vehicular
(Post 415945)
Wait, what? Why would it possibly be a good idea to seal it at the air dam? The gap there is simply letting more air in. Frontal area = good. Sealing it all sorts of other places is almost a requirement (under/ to the sides of the ic/rad, etc) but the air dam? If it stuck out past the air dam, then it wouldn't be producing much downforce like it is, but it doesn't, so I don't see an issue.
Splitters produce downforce by moving the air around the car, rather than under it. What is the point in the splitter/mushroom thingy you made if you don't seal it off to move the air? |
Of course pressure differential matters. Empirical data will be collected in a number of different configurations:
http://www.bryanlow.com/pictures/P1070891.JPG |
Originally Posted by bryanlow
(Post 416210)
Of course pressure differential matters. Empirical data will be collected in a number of different configurations:
http://www.bryanlow.com/pictures/P1070891.JPG |
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Originally Posted by hustler
(Post 416213)
have fun doing the research that Bernoulli already took care of for you.
Bernoulli's principle applies only when a certain set of parameters are met. Namely: 1. fluid flows smoothly 2. fluid flows without any swirls (which are called "eddies") 3. fluid flows everywhere through the pipe (which means there is no "flow separation") 4. fluid has the same density everywhere (it is "incompressible" like water) As for #'s 1-3: An intercooler then a radiator then a miata engine would cause a little turbulence in the air trying to flow through them. As for #4: The 200° radiator and 280° oil cooler will have a non-trivial effect on the density of the air flowing through them, not to mention the air flowing around a glowing red hot turbo and downpipe. Airflow through the front of a car is a fairly complex system. Boiling it down to one scientific principle is a gross oversimplification. While I have no doubt the Bernoulli principle does have some effect somewhere within the system, it's important to remember that not all pressure differentials are due to the bernoulli principle. IMO, most low pressure zones are probably due to turbulent airflow, the front airdam being the classic example.
Originally Posted by j_man
(Post 416067)
From what I see in your picture, you have the hoses mounted the wrong way - you use the lower port as the return one. The return hose should be the connected to the upper port of the cooler - otherwise you'll end up with air pocket inside the cooler. Swap the hoses (easiest at the sandwich side I guess) and make sure the upper port of the cooler is pointing a bit upwards so the oil pushes the air out into the hose.
Originally Posted by hustler
(Post 416126)
Splitters produce downforce by moving the air around the car, rather than under it. What is the point in the splitter/mushroom thingy you made if you don't seal it off to move the air?
IMO, a true fallacy would be to create ducting to route air that would normally go over the top of the car into the engine bay a' la the headlight scoop or the between-the-turnsignals hole. This forces air into yet does nothing to improve scavenging in the engine bay. |
m2cupcar,
where did you get your lines at? they are 1/2 npt correct? |
on Bernoulli:
increasing frontal area will not increase pressure. Changing geometry of the chamber in front of the heat exchangers will increase pressure. I've spoken about it with people on this forum and Andrew Brilliant who's a real aerodynamacist for real racecars. on the splitter: I agree with everything you say, but if you don't seal it up at the bumper, air is still going through the nose, around the heat exchangers, and raising pressure on the wrong side of the heat exchangers. All the air that's hitting the bottom half of the bumper, which is half of what the car sees, is going through the seam gaps. You have great ideas, just execution failure. |
No- hydraulic lines with adapters. Got them from an industrial (hydraulic supply) vendor. Several here have done the same for various braided lines.
I agree with Hustler here- I think there's lots of improvements to make before increasing the air on the front side of the exchangers. I know with race cars, they aim at optimizing the air that is incoming vs. increasing the amount of air and increasing drag. |
Originally Posted by m2cupcar
(Post 416552)
No- hydraulic lines with adapters. Got them from an industrial (hydraulic supply) vendor. Several here have done the same for various braided lines.
I agree with Hustler here- I think there's lots of improvements to make before increasing the air on the front side of the exchangers. I know with race cars, they aim at optimizing the air that is incoming vs. increasing the amount of air and increasing drag. |
Originally Posted by hustler
(Post 416494)
on Bernoulli:
increasing frontal area will not increase pressure.
Originally Posted by hustler
(Post 416494)
Changing geometry of the chamber in front of the heat exchangers will increase pressure.
Originally Posted by hustler
(Post 416494)
on the splitter:
I agree with everything you say, but if you don't seal it up at the bumper, air is still going through the nose, around the heat exchangers, and raising pressure on the wrong side of the heat exchangers. All the air that's hitting the bottom half of the bumper, which is half of what the car sees, is going through the seam gaps.
Originally Posted by hustler
(Post 416494)
I've spoken about it with people on this forum and Andrew Brilliant who's a real aerodynamacist for real racecars.....It was 103 or some shit like that at the Willow Springs race. On the 450whp miata with a v-mount and a Racing Beat bumper we had the divider for the radiator so high that only 1.5" of air was coming through and the car was running fine on water temps.
Originally Posted by hustler
(Post 416494)
Have fun increasing frontal area.
Seriously though, good discussion. I still think my design will work and this is why: 1. Worst case scenario, air flow under the car is zero sum. What is taken from below the airdam will be exhausted through the engine bay and out the underside of the car. 2. Best case scenario, airflow under the car will be a negative sum. With the pan angled slightly downward, the airdam is effectively lowered. The air in front of the opening is being rammed into the engine bay. A static pressure will be achieved which then acts as a solid barrier. The rest of the air (since it's not being compressed) will need to go elsewhere, like around the sides, or underneath. Everything behind the opening though will act as sort of a diffuser creating low pressure behind it thereby facilitating the scavenging of the engine bay. Either way, test data should be interesting. |
Yes its bullshit 2nd hand knowledge, but I spent enough time making Canards, sealing the front of the car and moving the splitter forward to compensate for the "under-body wing" which dramatically increased downforce in the rear of the car.
I only have a few pics: http://photos-f.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._5102899_n.jpg they sealed-up the headlights and scored a noticeable improvement in handlobraesing: http://photos-c.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos..._5285766_n.jpg http://photos-e.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos...0_883949_n.jpg Creating a chamber in front of the heat exchangers, larger than the mouth, with smooth-ish contours will increase pressure. |
Originally Posted by hustler
(Post 416955)
Creating a chamber in front of the heat exchangers, larger than the mouth, with smooth-ish contours will increase pressure.
Gonna take some serious cutting + sheetmetal fab to make this: http://www.bryanlow.com/pictures/P1070874.JPG look anything like this: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...turifixed2.PNG Come to think of it, I wonder if this is the design basis for the NACA duct: http://infinigral.com/melder/flying/...t/NACADuct.jpg Very cool stuff. I'm trying not to go too overboard although I'm sooo tempted. Don't want to get my shit stolen. Hell, I'm already having trouble convincing people I'm stock even with my blacked out intercooler and stock rims. Then as soon as people hear the 3" enthuza goodness they know something's up... |
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