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-   -   To do before dyno? (https://www.miataturbo.net/general-miata-chat-9/do-before-dyno-46660/)

miatata 04-25-2010 12:55 PM

To do before dyno?
 
The specs are in my sig! This wed. I'm going to have it tuned, finally. The car runs well aside from a stumble / stall after dropping the clutch when approaching a stop light (maybe some tuning will clear that up...). I think it's gotten worse since the weather warmed up.

The car has had all sorts of maintenance: "low" mileage jdm motor, new oil pump, water pump, timing belt, plug wires, clutch, fuel filter, etc.

Spark plug question: I read most of you use the 7's but they can foul during long runs. Should I use 7's or 6's at the dyno? They are going to be new regardless.

Any other suggestions to prepare for the dyno day? I also have a questions about the EBC, see here.

Full_Tilt_Boogie 04-25-2010 12:59 PM

Can you do a pull from low rpm all the way to redline in 4th gear without detonation, overheating, etc?

miatata 04-25-2010 01:07 PM

As in WOT with boost? I haven't done that since it's not tuned for boost. How safe is it using the mspnp base map? I've driven it gently around and applied boost in short intervals for at least several hundred miles.

Full_Tilt_Boogie 04-25-2010 01:09 PM


Originally Posted by miatata (Post 562209)
As in WOT with boost? I haven't done that since it's not tuned for boost. How safe is it using the mspnp base map? I've driven it gently around and applied boost in short intervals for at least several hundred miles.


Yes, as in WOT through the whole rev range.
Put the windows up and listen very carefully for detonation.
If you can do this, then it should be able to safely make a full dyno pull.

Laur3ns 04-25-2010 02:14 PM


Originally Posted by Full_Tilt_Boogie (Post 562210)
Yes, as in WOT through the whole rev range.
Put the windows up and listen very carefully for detonation.
If you can do this, then it should be able to safely make a full dyno pull.

What kind of BS advise is that?
That is specifically why you take it to a dyno, so that afterwards you can do a pull from low rpm all the way to redline in 4th gear without detonation. Not before. On a dyno, the operator can interrupt if it goes lean, hot, etc.

Your advise is like trying to walk before broken hip surgery.

Full_Tilt_Boogie 04-25-2010 02:26 PM


Originally Posted by Spookyfish (Post 562255)
What kind of BS advise is that?
That is specifically why you take it to a dyno, so that afterwards you can do a pull from low rpm all the way to redline in 4th gear without detonation. Not before. On a dyno, the operator can interrupt if it goes lean, hot, etc.

Your advise is like trying to walk before broken hip surgery.

He never said it was being tuned on the dyno, he just said he was going to the dyno. So I assumed he was doing it to just get numbers.

I would wnat to be fully confident that my car is ready to do a entire pull like that before I put it in the hands of a dyno operator.

Not to mention the fact that street tuning is usually a more accurate representation of load on an engine, especially compared to a dynojet.

But I guess you do all your tuning on the dyno right?

Stealth97 04-25-2010 02:40 PM


Originally Posted by miatata (Post 562198)
This wed. I'm going to have it tuned, finally.

the 7's are fine.

miatata 04-25-2010 05:45 PM


Originally Posted by Spookyfish (Post 562255)
What kind of BS advise is that?
That is specifically why you take it to a dyno, so that afterwards you can do a pull from low rpm all the way to redline in 4th gear without detonation. Not before. On a dyno, the operator can interrupt if it goes lean, hot, etc.

Your advise is like trying to walk before broken hip surgery.

This makes a lot more sense to me ;)
And yes I did mention that I am going to have it tuned on the dyno.

Originally Posted by Stealth97 (Post 562270)
the 7's are fine.

Surprised to see you here, Justin!

Full_Tilt_Boogie 04-25-2010 05:54 PM

Well then I stand corrected.
But still, I would have it tuned pretty well on the street before I started dyno tuning.
The dyno just simulates driving. You can make all sorts of power tuning on the dyno, then go for a drive and blow the engine simply because the dyno didnt load the engine up as much as you do while accelerating at speed in a high gear.

shlammed 04-26-2010 06:53 PM

I am also interested in this thread.

I am having my 1.6 tuned this weekend and i hope to push the limits of stock internals and transmissions with my setup.

Things i have on my list are:
Bring extra fuel, miata tanks are tiny and boost will run it out fast
Fresh oil
new bkr7e's

Besides that, im at a loss for what to do to prep.

My shit runs well... i can do pulls, i drove it around and it doesnt have any leaks.

shuiend 04-26-2010 07:06 PM


Originally Posted by shlammed (Post 563084)
I am also interested in this thread.

I am having my 1.6 tuned this weekend and i hope to push the limits of stock internals and transmissions with my setup.

Things i have on my list are:
Bring extra fuel, miata tanks are tiny and boost will run it out fast
Fresh oil
new bkr7e's

Besides that, im at a loss for what to do to prep.

My shit runs well... i can do pulls, i drove it around and it doesnt have any leaks.

Why the extra gas? At the last dyno day I did 6 runs on the dyno, about 20 runs from 50-100 WOT tuning EBC, and drove over 200 miles to and from my house with 45min sitting in traffic and I still managed over 20mpg. I am pretty sure it was actually closer to 25mpg for that fill up.

Even when I had my car load tuned 2 years ago I don't think I went through more then half a tank of gas if even that.

WonTon 04-26-2010 07:11 PM

OP, where are you going to get your car dyno tuned. the few places that i have heard of here in GA, i have heard horror stories about.

Full_Tilt_Boogie 04-26-2010 07:28 PM


Originally Posted by WonTon (Post 563091)
OP, where are you going to get your car dyno tuned. the few places that i have heard of here in GA, i have heard horror stories about.

My point exactly. Lots of shops are run by idiots, and lots of dyno operators have no business doing what they do. Some of the fubar dynos you see posted all over the net are proof of this.

WonTon 04-26-2010 07:46 PM

one shop around here blew a kid miata up twice i think (kept advancing his timing, the kid left trusting the guy and BOOM!), another shop specializes in Nissan and Honda, they charge a flat 600 to tune your car and the others are pure shit!

falcon 04-26-2010 07:55 PM


Originally Posted by Full_Tilt_Boogie (Post 562339)
Well then I stand corrected.
But still, I would have it tuned pretty well on the street before I started dyno tuning.
The dyno just simulates driving. You can make all sorts of power tuning on the dyno, then go for a drive and blow the engine simply because the dyno didnt load the engine up as much as you do while accelerating at speed in a high gear.

lol, are you retarded or something?

A proper dyno tune out does a road tune any day. My tuner scraps EVERYTHING he hasn't done and does it all on the dyno. No blown engines so far... :idea: And they get tracked.

Full_Tilt_Boogie 04-26-2010 08:07 PM


Originally Posted by falcon (Post 563122)
lol, are you retarded or something?

A proper dyno tune out does a road tune any day. My tuner scraps EVERYTHING he hasn't done and does it all on the dyno. No blown engines so far... :idea: And they get tracked.

I assure you, I am not the one who is retarded here.

If you really think that a dyno perfectly simulates real world load then you my friend are a serious moron.
For one, it seems like dynojets are the most common chassis dynos around, and they put dramatically less load on the engine than driving does, you can actually see substantial difference in spool times. You could tune a car to make all sorts of power on a dynojet, stick it on the road and it will blow the fuck up.

I never said that the dyno was useless. Its a very good tool. But the simple fact is that the vast majority of tuners and dyno operators dont know shit. I would rather be safe than sorry and know that when they start dyno tuning my car its already got a good street tune on it.

But thats just me. I guess if I were like you and had to hire a tuner due to my own incompetence then maybe I would fee differently.

Full_Tilt_Boogie 04-26-2010 08:16 PM

Here is a brilliant example of an idiotic dyno operator.

http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=372775

The OP is obviously an idiot, but the dyno operator should know better, yet he did consecutive pulls on a boosted setup with AFRs in the 15's.
If this hadnt been such a weak sauce JRSC setup it would have blown up pretty quickly.

This is not an isolated incident, I personally know people who operate dynos in my area and most of them are back-yard mechanics at best and have no business anywhere near a dyno or tuning software.


But w/e, if you wnat to put your car in the hands of someone who is likely an idiot, than knock yourself out.

Stealth97 04-26-2010 08:23 PM


Originally Posted by miatata (Post 562337)

Surprised to see you here, Justin!

only because most of these guys swing my way :greddy:

Oh and a dyno tune is great, but you need to do both dyno tuning and road tuning, IMO for best street mannerz

kewilso3 04-26-2010 08:28 PM

i'd try to find someone on here that's local and knows their shit, and try to get them to help you road tune for a bit and learn as much as you can. That's what I plan on doing before going to a dyno, so I can tune myself and be confident in the future.

So... anyone around NC want to help me out in a few months?

miatata 04-26-2010 09:40 PM


Originally Posted by WonTon (Post 563091)
OP, where are you going to get your car dyno tuned. the few places that i have heard of here in GA, i have heard horror stories about.

I'm going to Balanced Performance and getting tuned by Ed. He was recommended through Matt at DIYautotune. Also read some good things at mx5atlanta.com.

Any horror stories?? :)
I'm interested in them even if they aren't from that shop lol

WonTon 04-26-2010 09:45 PM

i havnt heard any about Balanced Performance.

just Mainstream, lethal injections and All speed.....

miatata 04-26-2010 09:46 PM


Originally Posted by WonTon (Post 563204)
i havnt heard any about Balanced Performance.

just Mainstream, lethal injections and All speed.....

Ooooh do tell about Lethal. My brother got a RB25 swap done there! We didn't do any tuning there though.

miatata 04-26-2010 09:48 PM


Originally Posted by Full_Tilt_Boogie (Post 563134)
Here is a brilliant example of an idiotic dyno operator.

http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=372775

The OP is obviously an idiot, but the dyno operator should know better, yet he did consecutive pulls on a boosted setup with AFRs in the 15's.
If this hadnt been such a weak sauce JRSC setup it would have blown up pretty quickly.

This is not an isolated incident, I personally know people who operate dynos in my area and most of them are back-yard mechanics at best and have no business anywhere near a dyno or tuning software.


But w/e, if you wnat to put your car in the hands of someone who is likely an idiot, than knock yourself out.

Do you think it's the responsibility of the dyno operator when a customer is just doing idiotic pulls? He had no engine management and didn't even attempt any tuning. He's digging his own grave, no?

WonTon 04-26-2010 09:51 PM

they are pretty good with Nissans, honda and swaps of that nature. but i have seen some off there custom turbo kits and thought to myself i wouldnt take my car to them. lots of half ass shit with wiring. the only other thing that i have heard about them is a few of the guys there that tune are not very good at it.

Mainstream has blown up a few cars, and All speed just sucks for anything except alignments( they are way to over priced ).

Full_Tilt_Boogie 04-26-2010 10:01 PM


Originally Posted by miatata (Post 563206)
Do you think it's the responsibility of the dyno operator when a customer is just doing idiotic pulls? He had no engine management and didn't even attempt any tuning. He's digging his own grave, no?

The customer doenst do the pulls, I have never seen a shop that would allow that, the insurance companies would never allow it.

When you get your car dyno'ed you are putting it in the hands of the operator, and it his responsibility to abort the pull if it goes lean, detonates, overheats, etc. since you cant monitor it yourself.

If i were the dyno operator I would have aborted immediately, and upon finding out that the owner hadnt installed any EMS I would have told him to go home and come back when the car was running right.
or better yet I would have advised him to sell the car immediately, buy something bone stock and leave it that way.

miatata 04-26-2010 10:19 PM


Originally Posted by Full_Tilt_Boogie (Post 563217)
The customer doenst do the pulls, I have never seen a shop that would allow that, the insurance companies would never allow it.

When you get your car dyno'ed you are putting it in the hands of the operator, and it his responsibility to abort the pull if it goes lean, detonates, overheats, etc. since you cant monitor it yourself.

If i were the dyno operator I would have aborted immediately, and upon finding out that the owner hadnt installed any EMS I would have told him to go home and come back when the car was running right.
or better yet I would have advised him to sell the car immediately, buy something bone stock and leave it that way.

Interesting, I did it once myself several years ago! I was picturing some clown doing the pull with an operator supervising. Even still, yes I agree that's a dangerous map.

falcon 04-27-2010 12:35 AM


Originally Posted by Full_Tilt_Boogie (Post 563127)
I assure you, I am not the one who is retarded here.

If you really think that a dyno perfectly simulates real world load then you my friend are a serious moron.
For one, it seems like dynojets are the most common chassis dynos around, and they put dramatically less load on the engine than driving does, you can actually see substantial difference in spool times. You could tune a car to make all sorts of power on a dynojet, stick it on the road and it will blow the fuck up.

I never said that the dyno was useless. Its a very good tool. But the simple fact is that the vast majority of tuners and dyno operators dont know shit. I would rather be safe than sorry and know that when they start dyno tuning my car its already got a good street tune on it.

But thats just me. I guess if I were like you and had to hire a tuner due to my own incompetence then maybe I would fee differently.

I agree that Dynojets are useless for tuning. Dyno Dynamics or Dynapacks are the way to go.

No blown cars so far so I guess I'm "lucky"...

Laur3ns 04-27-2010 01:58 AM


Originally Posted by Full_Tilt_Boogie (Post 563127)
I assure you, I am not the one who is retarded here.

If you really think that a dyno perfectly simulates real world load then you my friend are a serious moron.

Go home already. The fact that you live around retarded dynojet operators doesnt mean falcon isn't right. In fact he IS right and you've just been duplicating bull shit.

My dyno operation can load the engine and hold it at any rpm for tuning. Yes that means that you are WOT, yet the dyno will hold the rpms steady. I want to see you do that on the road in a boosted car.

Full_Tilt_Boogie 04-27-2010 02:11 AM

Youre making this argument about something that I totally agree with you about, even if your understanding of load is flawed.

But w/e, I guess I just keep running into the few tuners on the planet that are idiots.

saint_foo 04-27-2010 10:38 AM


Originally Posted by falcon (Post 563122)
lol, are you retarded or something?

A proper dyno tune out does a road tune any day. My tuner scraps EVERYTHING he hasn't done and does it all on the dyno. No blown engines so far... :idea: And they get tracked.

Ideally, you road-tune prior to a dyno tune. THEN, dyno tune. THEN road tune. Real-world road driving is how the car will be driven. There usually are a few instances, especially at idle, partial-throttle, tip-in, etc. that you cannot duplicate on a dyno.

The post-dyno road tune should be tweaking and fine tuning only.

Laur3ns 04-27-2010 12:05 PM


Originally Posted by Full_Tilt_Boogie (Post 563383)
Youre making this argument about something that I totally agree with you about, even if your understanding of load is flawed.

Ok. My main complaint was your advice to run WOT in 4th through the rev range un-tuned with the window open. Maybe that's better than your average dyno operator, but I wouldn't want to advise that.


Originally Posted by saint_foo (Post 563502)
Ideally, you road-tune prior to a dyno tune. THEN, dyno tune. THEN road tune. Real-world road driving is how the car will be driven. There usually are a few instances, especially at idle, partial-throttle, tip-in, etc. that you cannot duplicate on a dyno.

The post-dyno road tune should be tweaking and fine tuning only.

All true. Crank, warmup, idle, etc. is all tuned off dyno. You want that sorted before you hit it. But maximum load is on the dyno, not on the street.

falcon 04-27-2010 12:24 PM

I've had 600AWHP cars tuned only on dynos (Miustang) and they haven't blown up yet? A road tune is for a road car. If you plan to drive your car on the track, in high revs for long periods of time a dyno tune is what will keep your car from blowing up. The load adjustability on they dyno allows the dyno operator to reach every area of the map.

Now, if you only use a Dynojet... that's a bragging rights dyno and completly useless for proper tuning, which is why I see why you're saying what you are.

JayL 04-27-2010 12:32 PM


Originally Posted by falcon (Post 563569)
Now, if you only use a Dynojet... that's a bragging rights dyno and completly useless for proper tuning, which is why I see why you're saying what you are.

You should do a little research about Dynojet dynos, specifically their modern offerings. When you get done with that, come back with some factual information to share. Might be surprised with what you find.

saint_foo 04-27-2010 02:39 PM


Originally Posted by Spookyfish (Post 563554)
Ok. My main complaint was your advice to run WOT in 4th through the rev range un-tuned with the window open. Maybe that's better than your average dyno operator, but I wouldn't want to advise that.



All true. Crank, warmup, idle, etc. is all tuned off dyno. You want that sorted before you hit it. But maximum load is on the dyno, not on the street.



True. My point is that a dyno tune usually can use tweaks that you cannot get from a dyno.


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