I'd be very interested as well. I've considered making my own out of stock steel, but it would end up costing quite a bit just that way.

Also very interested if it all works out. :)

Keep up the progress. Very interested.

I'm down. I could care less about coatings as well, specially if they're stainless. They salt here like once a year and i rinse the car top and bottom ASAP when they do.

Count me in if this becomes a reality.

How thick SS are you using? Same as FM? I´m also thinking about doing these rails myself...

I'll let you know in a week, but initial thought is 11 gauge (.105") thick. That is the maximum we can turret punch economically. If it goes to 10 gauge (.120"), that will have to go to laser and we will lose the economy that I was trying to put into these parts. Turret punch is much less expensive than laser.

Any news Stein? I'm about to start asking Santa Claus for my Christmas presents and the FM butterfly is in that category.

I got the package I was looking for when I got in the office yesterday. FM rails are a lot thinner than I guessed, so turret punching will be NO problem. I haven't measured yet, but looks like 12 gauge. I am confident that the pice point can be hit. I need to finish my drawings and will update the group. I plan on having parts the end of January. I will let you know how many sets will be available. I will be buying based on the number of parts that can be cut in full 4x8 or 5x10 sheets, depending on which use the material most economically. The software will calulate orientation for least waste.

About time he got them to you. Cant wait to see what you come up with.
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Lev, i want to see the fullsize of you sig pic.

I can't wait for this to become reality. My car already feels stiff as hell without door bars or rails this is gonna be ridiculous.

I just went back over the thread and it looks like we have around 24 still interested, so I will quote 25 sets minimum, rounded up to make a full sheet on my quote.

I won't take any money until they are done and ready to ship. I plan on including all of the stainless steel mounting hardware so you don't have to run around looking for it, plus I will be able to buy it bulk cheaper. There are a couple of commercial fastener companies locally that sell in bulk.

I'm in for sure. Can't wait for some prototype pics.

I'm in too if shipping to Europe isn't too crazy ;-)

+1
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I'm also interested

count me in

As many of the other IM in's and people that jump on... you might be under estimating the potential here... im following the crowd... Im IN, i would take a set priced accordingly... Make it happen.

Sweet. Make it happen. I need this :)

Yeah, once I get a firm price, I'll start a GB thread. No money until done. I trust that the "in" people will come through. We will get a good count before I order.

Prints and models are done (Thanks, Chad) and the prints have been sent out for quotes. Any feedback on the design?

It would be slightly cheaper to go without lightening holes, but probably not enough to matter. Might be $5.00/set. I calculated the weight savings as 1.15 lbs per side, 2.3 total for the set.

What do you think? Lightening holes or no?

In the intrest of saving time and considering it dosent really save much weight I say NO holes.
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I want one of these, but for me its extremely important that these things hug the original frame rails as closely as possible to avoid adding any ride height issues.

Including air gap and material thickness, the bottoms should be about 1/4" lower than the existing rail.

Definitely lightening NO holes. And definitely MORE mounting holes to fasten them so that they actually do something for rigidity. I'd like to see 10 holes to mount them per side vs. 4. I'll drill my own if others think it's not needed, but IMO, it is.

I see your point. I will lay out the car, hopefully tonight, to see where I can add holes and hit good flat metal and miss anything that will get in the way. The BRG is in the shop and I can pull my 99 in to make sure that there aren't any differences between the NA's and NB's.

Are you saying you do or donot want them.
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I typed the words bassackwards. I do NOT want any lightening holes in them. To me, they would kill the rigidity.

I knew what you meant Pat. I have been thinking about it and I have updated my quote request to both options, with and without lightening holes. I am now erring on the side of without holes, considering the small reduction in weight and they are bound to be at least a bit less expensive. The estimator is out until Monday, so it will be next week before I see a quote.

+1

Tomorrow I will measure the weight of a rail with holes and without holes using the solidworks function. Let you know what I find out. These things are so thing though I doubt we'll be saving all that much. The strength of these rails comes from the bent edges not necessarily the material between the bends necessarily. I'll get my friend to run it through Cosmos for a little FEA with and without holes. Who knows without holes might be stiffer.
Get you guys some hard data tomorrow.

if I get a profile and length I'll FEA it up on catia and get a weight within a half hour

and pat, making holes in the rails does not necessarily decrease its rigidity, in fact taking away material can often strengthen an object (although I do not believe that applies to these)

I'm a structural engineer, and now that design issues have come up, I'll pipe up and offer what I can. Holes/no holes is a cost and weight issue only. The difference in rigidity is close to negligible. We're simply not going to be transferring enough load to these rails to notice any slight difference in stiffness between with/without holes. As for the number of mounting holes, 4 per side is likely enough, but Pat's intuition is right that more will stiffen the connection. However, 10 is way overkill; it's diminishing returns real quickly. I assume the current placement is a copy of FM's bolt placement? If there are some good spots to add a couple more bolts, go for it, but don't lose sleep over it. If you're concerned about the absolute ultimate stiffened chassis, I'd look to stitch-welding the seams, especially the sills, etc.

It's not a complex part. There has been great success reported with the FM part, and you're not likely to improve on those any noticeable amount with slight tweaks. We're doing this for a more economical solution to the same issue, no? I'm excited about buying these! Thanks Stein!

I work for a sheetmetal fabrication company. We do a lot of "soft tool" work and from what I've seen from your other post, it could easily be ran that way. I could get a quote together pretty quick if you're interested.

+1 Minimize lowering impacts as much as possible. Personally, I would like the holes. Also, if you can punch out the holes first, then bend the part, if you can get the holes to 'flange' toward the outside, you can actually increase the rigidity. But as one of the other structural engineers said, it will be negligible and probably just hold more dirt anyway.

I looked last night and refined the hole locations a bit and added two per side. They are approximately 8" centers now. Any more than that and I started running into seat mount locations.

So, new design will be 6 bolt holes per side, no lightening holes.

Only a 1.15 lb difference without the lightening holes per rail. Pointless to remove that material for the sake of weight savings, dollar per pound it just doesn't make sense.

I agree, but would go either way with or without holes.

i'm down for a set

Any updates?

I gave the shop the prints last week to quote, but with the holidays and all, I haven't heard anything back. I planned to check with them today.

Got the pricing back. Here's what we are going to do.

Set of frame rails, six bolt holes per side, no lightening holes. Rails will be 14 gauge stainless steel.

All stainless steel bolts, nylock locking nuts and washers will be included.

$92.00+$15.00 UPS shipping to lower 48, for a total of $107.00 shipped!:)

Lead time is 4 weeks after order.

Time for firm commitments. I need to order 30 sets to get this price. I want to order in the next week or two. I'll start a new thread for reservations.

saweeet!
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Niice!

What kinda postage to Europe?

In. for two sets.

are you sure that the hole spacing isn't going to put the bolts in a bad spot on the other either side? AKA, are we going to drill into the seat frame, or a fuel line, etc.

*edit* just went back and checked... it's all good and I'm in.

I may actually be in this, awesome price!

I'm in if the shipping isn't nuts BTW! ;-)

That is a great price. I have the v8roadster rail kit for my swap. They came with the trans mount kit and all. 4 bolts/side seems enough but I'm sure 6 might be a slight improvement.

Some way to remount the wiring loom that runs from the front of the car to the battery would be nice. You can see from this picture http://forum.miata.net/vb/attachment...chmentid=63831

that the v8roadsters covers the holes to the clips that hold the loom up. I drilled more holes and used zip ties but something built into the rails would be a bonus.

Frank

in 4 1

Yea, how much for shipping to Europe?

I am in for a set - but please work out a shipping to Johannesburg, South Africa post code 1613 - USPS with tracking number works for most things getting to me.

Cheers

I just closed the group buy thread a few minutes ago. https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t28768/ Sorry.

The final product specs are 14 gauge or so I read. How does this compare to FM's?
17lbs (shipped) is heavier than FM's 10lbs (naked).

Are there any pictures of the prototype?

14 gauge is the same as theirs. IIRC, the cacluated weight from cjernigan was around 14 lbs for the ones with holes, plus 1.15 for no holes, so around 15 lbs. With packaging, etc added in, I rounded up. I'd rather estimate the shipping weight heavy and have it be lighter. I'm sure FM's new ones with lightening all over including the flange puts them at around 10. The laser cut lightening holes id more effiecient than punching some round holes. This was intended to be low cost and stronger at the sacrifice of a few pounds.

Excellent :) I don't care for 5lbs actually.