Sparetire

Woa. 2+2 does not equal 15.

The original coment was mine. It's refering to the build quality of a lot things being manufactured in Mexico. The assumption that Mexicans (which is not a race, it is a nationality) are somehow inferior does not follow. I lived in PHX for 4 years and worked on a crew that was mostly Mexican. Trust me, I know better. Same for China. There is no doubt that the Chinese can make some amazing things and certanly are not inferior as a people.

But the fact is that when a lot of companies based here move production there, its not because of some philosophical alignment with local customs or the weather. It's to utilize exchange rates and cheap labor and weaker regulatory standards (if any are really present at all). And low quality results.

Rennkafer

iTrader: (3)

Read it again... "belonging to the same stock". Neither the Chinese nor Mexicans are 100% of the same stock. If I emigrated to Mexico and became a citizen, I'd be a Mexican but I wouldn't be hispanic. Likewise if I emigrated to China and became a citizen I'd be Chinese, but I wouldn't be an asian. Asian is a race, Chinese and Mexican aren't.

Edit: Hispanic as in my original post is not considered a "race" either.

mike90miata

Exactly!! Nationality is not a race. **** we are the human race..
When people figure this out. we may start to get along a little better. Guess this
makes me a racist because man I hate most people.

Faeflora

iTrader: (2)

Riiight. One other thing that is worth consideration is that the chinese/mexican manufacturing companies are trying to make a buck too right? In the 5 parts transactions I've done on this forum, I've been "scammed" twice. Both those individuals live many hundreds of miles away from me. They shipped me crap misrepresented parts and thought that they could get away with it because they were too far away for me to choke. China is a ******* lot further away than the states and they're capitalists too now right? I'm sure that they try to cut down their own factory and materials costs as much as possible which lowers quality. If your China division ships you 10000 fucked up turboes it is much much much harder to reach overseas into some country that speaks chingchong with horrible arcane and corrupt government regulation than it is for me to sue in interstate small claims court. So, what you said + that other crap that I just said. This is the internet right? I don't have to be coherent do i?

Back to miata turbo land, how many people here have expereinced or directly know people who have experienced GT turboe failiures? My bb GT30 is aok after 30k miles.

If better product is to be had that is the yay though so I wonder about the borg warner and precision turbos. I recall a precision "big turbo" build over at m.net with methanol injection that hit 480whp or something like that. Why all the garret love? Why the garret nationalism? Are you all racist vs the other makes? fu

Faeflora

iTrader: (2)

No, you lose again loser. Read definition B.

And your race is USA.

Rennkafer

iTrader: (3)

My nationality is American, my race is caucasian.

You fail at comprehension and I give up...

RotorNutFD3S

iTrader: (33)

You're arguing with someone who "notched" their frame rail for a turbo like this:



Of course he's not going to get it.

Sparetire

I have no idea why you are so pissed off. Your finding stuff to be angry about thats not really there and frankly, you do come off as drunk. I dont discount the possibility that this a joke. If not....

That first paragraph, yes. Companies tend to try to cut costs as much as possible. Thats true of basically all companies. In some manufacturing environments you have weaker regulations, and the ability to pay very low wages without benefits and basically screw people who work untill they die. Great cost cutting, though a bit lacking in human dignity, which apperantly does not count for much. Which is what happens in China and to much lesser extent Mexico. So you get drywall with arsenic that eats plumbing after about 3 years. You get baby formula with melanin in it. Not in all cases, but as I said, they did not move production hundreds/thousands of miles for no reason. They did it to cut costs with cheap labor and weak regs. Thats not a judgement of the people who physically make the product. Its a fact. Sorry if it angers you. Frankly it angers me. Ever see how seasonal agricultural workers are treated sometimes? It'll keep you up at night I promise you that.

No offense man, but by your own definition you have just slammed America as a 'race' and judged it the exact way you mistakenly ASSUMED China and Mexico were judged. If you hate this country so much I hope you are actually doing something to help the situation rather than just throwing words like racist around.

I mean this to be blunt, but not disrespectful. But what you fail to realize as you sit with your blackberry in Baltimore 4000 miles from any of this is that I have worked with Mexican, Serbian, Argintinian, Japanese, various European and who knows what else nationals day in and day out. I know a man who holds dual citizenship. He is incredibly articulate, and has a family here and tons of family in Chiuhaha. He told me all about life North and South of the Border and he is more knowledgeable than anyone here. And thats where I formulated my opinions regarding working conditions in Mexico. For China, feel free to talk to human rights watch. Feel free to take a gander at how people in Gangzho live.

Nobody is sitting around saying that this country is perfect. Seriously. Nobody. Not even the hardcore right-wingers.

I have a general rule, and I dont always follow it but I do generally stay close: If you would not say it in a bar directly, you probably should not post it. If you think you are some sort of badass, good for you. If you are and have such a lack of sense to come into the middle of a conversation and start screaming incoherently and calling people racists, maybe its time to revaluate how you conduct yourself.

Now that this thread is well and truly jacked, I hope that Brain's source can shed some light on the information in the 1st post.

Faeflora

iTrader: (2)

I don't give up. Learn, my friend!

b: a class or kind of people unified by shared interests, habits, or characteristics"

Faeflora

iTrader: (2)

Haha lol irl. Thank you for your eloquent and comprehensible contribution to the discussion on international manufacturing and turbo quality. The internet is actually somewhat similar to a bar though, except at this bar, all patrons are perpetually totally smashed. You do realize this is the internet right? We don't even know what's true about that original post.

But touche, I think I was calling "racist" in response to some other thread I've read. I'm sorry you didn't realize that. Instead, I should have wrote, "Nationalist zombies". I also didn't realize that this thread was full of awesome before I posted (the discussion was minimal but polite).

**** it, you win.

Rennkafer

iTrader: (3)

Please name me one "shared interest, habit, or characteristic" that ALL Americans share... or all Afghanis, or all Chinese...


Brain... help us get back on topic!! Please!!!

Sparetire

Meh. If my worst moment was only that bad I would be a much, much better person than I am. No worries.
Try being umemployed and hating everything on TV. The internet is all I have right now Reality is relative.

Sparetire

NASCAR. Even Osama loves it.

JasonC SBB

I am flabbergasted how some people find racism ghosts everywhere. LOL @ Rotornut's post.

re: offshoring - some companies do it right and continue to produce high quality products, and some screw it up. Don't forget that when a company opens its doors overseas where labor is cheap, it's a godsend for many of those in those countries, and you can't accuse these companies of "exploiting foreign labor".

If Honeywell doesn't fix their problems, their competition will just eat their market share. It's too bad for us who buy aftermarket turbos that it seems only Garrett was taking care of us. Honestly the best thing that could happen now is if some Chinese company steps up to the plate and comes up with high quality clones of the Garrett turbos - better yet, ones wherein you mix and match your own wheels and housings. Methinks there's a business opportunity for some ex Garrett employees to start a small company that can buy Chinese made turbos, then do durability and QC testing and marketing here. Something akin to what 949 has done in the wheel market.

Doppelgänger

iTrader: (12)

Per the topic at hand.

The thing that worries me about "cheap *** ****".. aka pretty much that is a copy of the original and has 'made in China' plastered on it, is that they don't care about the failure rate plain and simple. It seems that they know if they have a 40% failure rate, they'll tell us to suck it because they pretty much hold a monopoly and know that companies are not likely to take the business elsewhere. They pretty much know that there is enough profit that the shitty products they have to be replaced are just a drop in the bucket in loss compared to the profit of parts sold that either a) don't fail or b) fail but the comsumer simply buys another one and does not ask for a replacement/return. This makes me believe that they don't take as much pride in making quality products.

However, I don't doubt that there are some factories/engineers/reproducers/managers/people who do manufacture goods more precisely and have better QC...but I'd be willing to be such operations cost a bit more and yield a slightly more expensive end product then what they could have done if they wanted to be ultra cheap like many other manufacturers.

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

im an objectionist at heart.

Sparetire

That's a point. I supose the stuff you see in the news is not every single plant. But man some of it reminds me of what we learned about pre-WWI factories.

Personally, a BW S200 turbo remains an option, I have noting but good stuff regarding the extended tip compressor wheels in the DSM community.

Faeflora

iTrader: (2)

Hatred of black people. I win again.

Braineack

iTrader: (62)

he's got a point.

Rennkafer

iTrader: (3)

his sense of humor is only surpassed by his fabrication skills...