Getting fit for a Miata: details on my adventure in trying to pass Broomstick
 

Hey, y'all, just thought I would share my progress in moving towards passing a broomstick test in my NA Miata.

A little about me, I am only 6' (okay 5' 11.5") and I weight 225 lbs (but I weighed 250 lbs when this adventure started). I, apparently have a freakishly long mid-section, I wear like 28"/29" inseam pants, despite my height. It's kind of become a well known fact that I have this ridiculous Torso amongst my friends and family. Which leads me to the problem.

I don't fit in a stock Miata, whatsoever.

Yes, I can drive a stock miata, but my hair touches the roof when up, the mirror/sun visors/windshield frame block my view of the road considerably. I realize this is not a unique problem to have as it's a small convertible. But I have been told a dozen times "My friend who is 6'7" fits in a Miata just fine!" and "Just do a foamectomy!" Uh, yeah, no. Here is a picture of me sitting in the stock Miata seat with my helmet on, my car has a Hard Dog Sport rollbar.

https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...6df3a8c946.jpg


I think Moti of Blackbird Fabworx said it best "wow, you're going to need a lot more than just a simple bolt on"

Step 0: Assess my options, since I already had a rollbar, and most rollbars on the market have a similar height because of soft top/hard top fitment considerations it seemed like lowering the seat was my best option. I considered doing a foamectomy but it seemed clear from what I had read that it wasn't going to give me the clearance I needed (a good half a foot or more...)

Step 1: Ultrashield TDR Rally Sport aluminum buckets mounted on the TDR "low" brackets. I jumped straight in and got to cutting out the rear humps so I could mount the seat as low as possible. It certainly helped and it was nice to be able to see out of the windshield for a change. Another downside of having such a tall sitting height, looking out the back through my double diagonal roll bar, I could mostly only see the ground right behind my car in the rear view mirror. Also worth noting, at this point I CANNOT sit in the car with the top up an my helmet on so it isn't just bad camera work, I really am still way too tall. Cost of this stage: $550 (seat, bracket, DIY install).

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...22e83c2d55.jpg


Stage 2: Okay, time for desperate measures, I know spec racers recently were allowed to drop their seat pan for to make some headroom. Call around and get hooked up with Kontrolle Engineering in nearby Rancho Cordova (I am in Sacramento). Clint and Dave assess my situation and agree that a drop pan is necessary. Clint does an amazing custom pan that keeps the frame rail intact and angles down towards the rear of the car so that I don't catch debris with the front of the pan, barely clears my high flow cat by a few MM. Cost of this stage: $1000.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...8dc0a5a424.jpg


I can finally fit under the soft top with a helmet on! Hurray...but still not technically passing broomstick.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...fd61496fd6.jpg


Stage 3: Last ditch effort. time for an ultra tall roll-bar. So, Clint at Kontrolle measures my helmeted head in my current set up to figure out how much higher I need to go. Builds one of their standard roll-bars to see if it adds enough additional room. It does not, he estimates that we need another 1.5" to make it work, except that rules out any chance of any hardtop AND we need to remove the rear bar of the soft top for it to be able to go up and down. So he builds the taller bar and test fits it on the car with the rear support removed.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...baa00de5f.jpeg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...bf4c51e0a.jpeg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...73950bce5.jpeg

It works, Clint says the top fits snugly over the new bar, and the rear bar acts as the support for the soft top when up. That's all we know, it's off being powdercoated now, so I should know by the end of the week if it was all worthwhile or not. Cost of this stage: $525

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...b27628c4f5.jpg

Pics not working... Fixed,

Well that's a bother, I think I fixed it? Google photos doesn't play nice with cutting and pasting apparently...

Yup, pics working now.

The Ultrashield seat should have been bolted directly to the floorpan instead of using the TDR brackets.

I started out with an ultra-tall rollbar with no roof.
Attachment 229469

Attachment 229470

Attachment 229471

When the floor pan drop became legal for SM and Advanced Autosports started selling their parts, I had the floor pan drop installed and had a custom rollbar fabricated that allowed the seats to be far back and tilted and retain the use of a hardtop.

Attachment 229472

Attachment 229473

sounds like you've been through the same gamut at me. The rail only adds maybe a 1/4 inch of height. It definitely wouldn't have made much difference and it makes moving the seat around a bit easier and gives it a bit more leanback.

​​​​​btw I am sure I have seen your original roll bar in my Google searches for "tall miata rollbar".

I am definitely not all the way back either, my legs really are pretty short which is probably the only blessing in this whole situation.

Losing the butt fat is definitely part of it, I've noticed that my view of certain dashboards has gotten worse as I've gained weight over the years...

It was a long process to reach the current solution.
When/why do you move the seat around?
I suspect the actual drop by removing the rails is more than 1/4" (the metal strips themselves are like 1/8" thick, no?), but even then every bit helps.

Just estimating based on the fact that I can't stick a finger between the seat and the floor, it's basically touching...

I guess my point is, that I'd still be in the same place as I am now either way.

​I have a couple sets of holes in my seat in case I want to move it around, plus I can mount my narrower passenger seat in if someone else wants to drive.

Great illustration of how torso height maters when talking about fitting into a Miata's. I have two friends who are 6'7" and 6'8". The friend who is 6'8" fit in my car with the hardtop on with a sheetmetal seat bolted to brackets on the stock humps (though his knees were in the way). The one who is 6'7" doesn't fit because his inseam is 32 (same as me at 5'10"). Like you, he was better looking over the windshield header than under it.

Yep, for every story I hear of 6'6"+ people fitting in a miata, I hear a story from someone my height who can't fit...

My aluminum seat is bolted straight to the floor in the back.

Not all helmets are created equally. Some have more height in the crown area.

If you're able to save a quarter inch with the seat bracket and half an inch with a different profile helmet, three quarters of an inch is pretty substantial gain.

If you are young enough you could always join the Army and go airborne. It isn't uncommon for people coming out of jump school to be a half inch shorter than they went in.

I am 32? What's the cap hahaha

Yeah, I did inquire about helmets among my racecar friends but nobody could point me towards one that was definitely shorter, and there aren't a lot of places nearby to go try on helmets...Definitely something to consider, if I can find a helmet that is shorter, ill add it to the thread.

Yeah, my problem is that I was failing by multiple inches, even after lowered seats, and a lowered seat pan.

I lost almost an inch after back surgery. They told me I would shrink, but an inch is pretty substantial for my age.

I do NOT recommend screwing up your back to fit under a roll bar...

So maybe have vertebrae removed

Not the first time I have heard the suggestion! :D

i'm 6'3" and have my issues fitting into a Miata, so i feel your pain. If you are not racing in Spec/Super Miata, then you don't need hard top. If you don't plan to drive this in the rain, you can ditch soft top and go with Bikini top which can work with a taller roll-bar. They are made to order and you will provide measurements to them. It will not really save the interior from the rain, but will save you from the sun and will reduce wind.

Yeah, I'm glad we're managing to save the soft top for that reason. I don't mind driving top down at the track and I will enjoy having a top on cold mornings on the way there and hot afternoons on the way back.

My friend bought one of those bikini tops used, new they are pretty pricey.

Yeah, that was the biggest problem with my extra-tall rollbar. Driving home after a track day, the direct sunlight was incredibly fatiguing.

I have similar issues (5'11 and 30" inseam). I juuuuuuuust fit with my blackbird GT3. I have the stock seat set up so I can put foam in or out at a whim and to pass roll bar I pull out all but half an inch of foam. I also cut out the rear seat mounts and built new rear backets. The seat pan sits on the floor now. I clear by about 1/2“ in this setup with my helmet on.

I have two friends the same height with even shorter legs and even with my setup they are above the roll bar by a hair without a helmet!

Short Leg, Long Torsos UNITE!

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...02cf2f20b0.jpg

stage 4: super tall roll bar. Kontrolle engineering hooked it up with a custom ultra tall roll bar. I am finally legitimately passing a literal broomstick test. Cost of this stage: $525
the top still goes up but it is VERY snug....

More info and detailed pics please, interested in this.

Hey 2slow, feel free to ask any specific questions about what you need more info on. I have more pictures but I feel like my original post was fairly thorough...

Well, I'm interested to see more pictures of the rollbar (shape, supports, mounting points) and measurements from parcel shelf and from the top of the window frame. The reason for this is quite simple - Hard Dog, BBFB and others all build their bars to be as tall as possible, while accommodating maximum seat travel, layback angle, etc. I had a rollbar that was rubbing on hard top and was barely clearing the soft-top frame beams, so I'm not sure how one would manufacture a taller bar that is safe and gives more space. To make it taller - it has to be further forward as not to interfere with the frame beams. But that will reduce how far back the seat could go or would put it above driver's head. At the same time going maximum distance back means putting it under the arch part of the soft top, but then you can't get maximum height. If you removed one of the frame beams - how well does the soft top work? Does it use rollbar instead of a frame member to give it shape?

In the picture the top of the main hoop looks curved, i'm not sure if that's camera angle making it look that way or if that's really the case.

If this rollbar is really taller than anything else on the market and still fits under the soft top - I'll buy it. Especially at the indicated $525 price (provided it is well designed and is safe).

P.S. - I think you need a new seat, your current one looks low behind your head

Alright, this is gonna be lengthy.

The roll bar is taller than a standard rollbar by removing the soft top support that is integrated into the soft top right in front of the rollbar. The softop now rests on the rollbar and uses that as the support. It is VERY tight, even a little too tight imo. I don't have any measurements on hand but can get some next time I am near the car.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...b118eef121.jpg


Clint at Kontrolle built one of their standard rollbars, which is taller than my Hard Dog Sport M1 rollbar, for certain and probably slightly further forward as well but we determined that it would still not be tall enough for me. He tried it with soft top and with a race hard top (basically just a skin) and with the soft top he had about 1.5" of room and with the hard top he had less than 1" of room. That's when he came up with removing the soft top bar and using the rollbar as a support. It supports the soft top well, the top is very tight though (it should be noted, my top was hard to latch before, not sure why). Will it cause additional wear of the soft top over time? Hard to say. Will the soft top rub the coating off the rollbar? hard to say.

https://garagestar.com/?s=roll+bar&post_type=product

Kontrolle uses the same diameter tubing for these as they do for race cages, I can't recall what that is exactly (I can ask) but my understand is that it should pass tech with the major organizations the same as BBFW or Hard Dog. The top bar has some slight angles in it. You can see some pictures of their standard bar in the link above. I believe the support points are similar to the hard dog and BBFW. At least I don't think he ended up trimming much to make the new rollbar fit in comparison to the old roll bar.

I am checking with Kontrolle to make sure it's okay to post the photos he took of his work. I will add them if he gives me the all clear.

I agree that my seat is a little low, but helmeted or unhelmeted, my head hits the seat, not my neck, so it'll have to do for now. Now that I have the drop pan and tall rollbar I would like to test fit some other seats to see if I can find something more comfortable.

BTW I ended up paying a bit more to have it coated red instead of flat black but $525 is the cost of their standard rollbars and that's what they originally quoted me for a black extra tall rollbar. I live nearby and they had my car to do the work and the measurements so YMMV on the price, especially if you are not local.

Okay, Clint at Kontrolle Engineering said it was cool to share some pics that he took while he was making it.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...dea15a99ed.jpgThis pic shows the height difference between the standard Kontrolle Type II bar and my Hard Dog Sport M1 bar.
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...ec62066b7c.jpgDifferent angle comparing the too bar, you can kinda see how similar the mounting positions are in this picture.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...e0ffe4af1c.jpgStandar Bar installed in my car for testing
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...889152b223.jpgAmount of space above the standard bar and my soft top
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...2ef7e7082.jpegamount of space above the standard bar and a race hard top
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...6676e61163.jpgStandard bar installed in my car
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...a8c4bbe4cd.jpgstandard bar installed in my car
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...12ec8579e1.jpgstandard bar height compared to my custom ultra tall roll-bar height. Extra tall roll bar added about 1.5 and necessitated the removal of the soft top support bar.
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...3b1a61e2db.jpgUltra tall rollbar without paint, being test fit with soft top bar removed.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...0a1522a070.jpgultra tall rollbar being test fit into car
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...9db019abd2.jpgultra tall rollbar being test fit.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...3183b154b0.jpgrear view with extra tall bar installed much better to see out of for me than the hard dog bar which blocked most of my rear view.
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...5be8e4ebe4.jpgClint's finger showing the extra tall rollbar supporting the top.
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...0c147aff9d.jpgExtra tall roll bar from outside the car

Props for taking the time and effort to post that info.

Doesn't apply to me, but I really like some creative thinking and fabrication.

I agree, the best part about working with Clint is that he seems genuinely excited to do that work. He is an excellent fabricator but his ingenuity in solving my issues is what really made me feel like I could trust his judgement. It was super cool of him to share the pictures of his progress with me as well and let me make decisions about what I was willing to have him do along the way.

The least I can do is share it with MT.net.

Marioshi,
+1 on thanks for posting this. So with this bar - can you move the seat all the way back if that was needed, like flush with the tub behind it? I'm considering this as an option for myself if bolting the seat to the floor won't drop me enough.

I would have to double check, my seat is reclined a bit and I know it's not all the way back becaueb my legs are short, plus with the drop pan my floor is slightly different, but I could probably set my seat in there without the mount and see how far back it'll go...

Finished product looks great.

Putting this car up for sale, it is heavily modified for track use, but the engine needs work/replacement. PM me if you might be interested, located in CA, but willing to ship.