Going up
 

Hey guys I have a turbo 1.6 running 10 psi but she's giving me trouble. I'm looking to upgrade cars and I was hoping you could provide some feedback.

I have been looking at BMW Z4M's and Honda S2Ks but I can't figure out what I want. I love power and speed but I also appreciate the nimbleness of the miata. The two cars are similar in price but complete opposites. The Z4M is way fast with 330 hp and a sub 20 second 0-200 km/h but the clutch is vague and the car is fairly heavy. The S2K is light and would feel more like a miata but lacks on the speed side. Any anecdotes or experience from anyone here? Thanks!

The answer is always Miata.

I test drive an s2k. Nice car, zero low end, weak midrange.
if you like buzzing around at 5+k rpm around town it's a cool roadster. Way overpriced in my opinion.

never drove a z4

You like the nimbleness of the Miata but want more power. Buy Harold Hammerly's car in the sale section and be more nimble than the Miata you already have and faster than the BMW you are considering.

The BMW Z4 weighs 1000 lb more than the Miata. That's four fat girls riding with you in your Miata. Do you expect that to be nimble?

Bit confused on your location. About me says US, but you give quotes on km/h?

BMW is a pig, magazine specs don't match reality.

S2000 is an awesome track car, but for the price you can buy a nice C5 Corvette that will stomp it into the ground on street or track.

Nimble would be shifter cart.

I am US but I like to use Automobile-Catalog the complete Catalog of Cars, car specs database and they list first in km/h

Was it Top Gear that said it wallows like a fat piggy?

I just looked up the quarter mile times on the z4m and it's reported to be about 13.4 seconds. Sonofthehill on this forum is running 12.08 seconds in the quarter mile on a Chinese turbo and a log manifold. That's a bunch of car lengths.

I was catching and passing Corvette C5 ZO6 on the track on the straight at 262 horsepower. Harold's car is making 318 at the wheels and is completely sorted out with beautiful paint, huge brakes, built engine, great Turbo, and a premium suspension for only 15 grand.

This just in: Stock Honda is slower than an aftermarket turbocharged car.

BREAKING NEWS FOR SURE

lol @concealer404

@sixshooter my turbo miata is a cheap setup and not well tuned so I aint putting down a whole lot. When I first finished and drove it turbo I had 1500 in the setup and 2300 in the car. I am just looking for something with some oomph that won't need constant repairs or worry about it exploding and sending a piston for a long overdue flight. I want a long term car I can enjoy without it being the "boring" DD family car.

then you are doing it all wrong and buying/using shit parts on a shit car.

buy a nice/clean 3-4k miata and use proven reliable turbo parts.

I personally have had zero turbo related issues with any of my turbo miatas. Most recent stuff that actually broke are an alternator and a power steering pump. $50 each and an hour to swap and it's all good again.

This is 100% true. The most have had to do to my setup was clutch master and slave cylinder and the rest has been fine. And that was last year all mine has seen all summer is gas oil and tuning time.

well yea it was a shitcar build just to see if I could. Most of the kit is FM with a china turbo and friend made exhaust. Leaks oil like a mofo and recently the exhaust split in half after an exhaust leak before turbo started igniting exhaust. I fixed the exhaust to find out it had done some damage to turbo. I replaced the turbo with one from cxracing since they were made in the US I thought it would be better. The only thing made in US got me is some ancient/proprietary flange that no one can seem to find and cxracing told me the flange can only be gotten as a combo with the turbo so now im sitting with a nonfunctional vehicle that has been that way for 3 damn weeks.

i have a non turbo exhaust that you can put on, hell you can put my turbo kit on.But you need to invest in quality proven parts for a reliable car.

Pick two

• Cheap
• Reliable
• Fast

Lol @cxracing made in usa.

its the same China shit that you see on ebay, comes from same factory with the only consistency cxracing orders the same spec turbos over and over again, unlike Ebay that constantly changes their specs.

of you can afford an s2k. $10k+ price tag, you can buy or build a real sweet dead reliable turbo miata that will blow the doors off any $10k s2000

Ancient/Proprietary flange?

Are you telling us that you're having a problem finding a T25 turbo and downpipe flange?

Having owned a turbo miata or 3.... i'll take an S2k over a $10k total invested turbo miata, thanks. Twice on Sunday.

Its a t25 turbo but not a t25 flange. It's closer to a t3 but even thats off. It seems that standardization in exhaust flanges isn't always perfect.

You should be able to find a 2554r or 2560r for relatively cheap. I think for the price of a s2k, you could be in the k-swap price range for the miata.

I don't get it. FM manifold is based around a T25 turbo. I would suggest you get a T25 turbo.

Goodness its given about as much trouble as you are having understanding. It's some POS turbo exhaust housing that fits the manifold great but wont fit the downpipe I got made for 500 bucks to find out the turbo was broken. The flange leading to downpipe on turbo is a completely different flange from a normal t25. I have sent measurements to vividracing and they were unable to find a flange to fit.

so why in the world would you buy a turbo that does not have a standard T25 flange on both ends?

post a pic of said flange, and your downpipe flange. people here are super experienced with all turbo matters and will recognize the flange in a sec.

and why would you pay $500 for a shit downpipe when you can get a real one from FM for about the same price?

EDIT: I think you are talking about a skyline type flange or RB flange or something like that, its also 5 bolt like T25, but bolt holes dont line up with a normal T25.

... do you think I would have bought it if I had known it wouldnt have fit? And I paid 500 for a nice mandrel bent piece from a local exhaust shop. If I had purchased the one from FM I would still have had to pay someone to finish from the FM downpipe to the exhaust and it would have been another 200 or so. I'll post pics when I get home.

EDIT: So full story. I called cxracing asking for a flange and the dude looked at my order history and created an order for the "right" flange. I waited almost a week for that one and it didn't work. I emailed them back and forth and they finally gave up and just refunded me and stopped answering my emails. I contacted vivid racing with all the measurements of the back of the turbo and they said they didnt have anything that would work and I could probably drill out new holes in one of their flanges. I don't have access to a drill press so I passed. I went back to the cxracing site and looked up the part number of the flange and they had sent me a different one so I ordered the flange on the website so hopefully the idiots get me something that works. Its been a week but their packages dont track right so I have no idea if it will be in any time soon or not.

Put an actual T25 on it, and have a downpipe made (or just buy one off the shelf) to match. I don't get the problem. You're making this hard for yourself, and it seems like it's deliberate. Who hurt you?

Can you post a link to the actual turbo that you bought on cxracing website?

is this the flange you have?

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...6f3f40848b.jpg

That looks like the turbo yes and the flange I just ordered last week. The one they sent my last time is a lot bigger in several spots with all the holes a few mm too far apart. I'm sorry I didn't get a chance to take the turbo off yesterday and get pics.

I had made the same mistake early in my turbo lyfe, this is a non standard t25 exhaust flange. Luckily I didn't mount the turbo, so I just returned it.

If you insist on China turbos, you want cxracing gt28 turbo, they have several to choose from

Word of advice, if you care about cost and time, the best way forward if you make a mistake isn't to double down on it!

What was my original mistake? The damage was primarily caused by an exhaust leak between a quality gasket and a flying miata header. A quality turbo might have survived the explosions inside the manifold, turbo, and downpipe but I don't see that working much better.

only thing an exhaust leak will do is make spool slower. it will not blow up your turbo.
Its just hot gasses escaping earlier in the exhaust path.

what engine management are you running?
exhausts dont ignite unless you were dumping unburnt fuel into the exhaust due to running pig rich.

I am assuming the new turbo was not bought new, nor from cxracing, thus you didnt get the funky flange that comes with the turbo.

you also dont need to run any gaskets between manifold and turbo. the surfaces should be machined flat.

I have an old FM link and yea im a bit rich but not black smoke out the tailpipe rich. I popped the exhaust leak at the very end of a 4 hour trip and when i got to my destination 15 mins later manifold was glowing pretty bright. I got the turbo from cxracing.com and declined to order the flange because I already had a t25 downpipe ready to just bolt on. I know there are several variations in normal t25 turboes which is why some flanges have a notched hole but I figured I could file it if it was different. Well...it was a bit too different like even if I got the holes to work I would have a huge hole between flange and turbo.

Bottom line is this: you put together a really bad setup using terrible parts and got terrible results. Now you want to switch platforms altogether rather than actually put together a decent miata, and considering two very different cars neither of which will provide what a "Miata" does (though the Honda does have some cool features).

In a case like this, it just seems like you want to go the lazy route, in which case yes you should just go buy a "factory faster" car and not modify it, just drive it. It takes a lot of reading, learning, and effort to be able to build a proper turbo Miata. link piggyback and cx racing turbo kit are considered bottom barrel trash around here.

Nah man it was the legit link standalone. I mean even Keith would say its trash now but it was a marvel of its day. It's ancient now though like its last update was in 2005. Yea what I am fighting with now is having something that drives like a turbo miata just with trunk space and reliability. Yes I know a well done turbo setup can be reliable but I do not have the mechanical skills to do a turbo well. I would be looking for a newer turbo miata done well if I could like the look of the NBs and NCs but I just can't. Right now I am just using what time I have left before switching jobs to look for something that can get me to and from work on time every day to a work environment where being late a few times is instant termination. I am just trying to be picky. I am even considering going for a 2005 model mustang GT and keeping the miata and just deregistering her till I get everything sorted permanently (which would probably be a v8 because my mechanic buddy would love to work on that).

The problem is a heavily modified car usually should not be a daily driver and the only available vehicle to get to/from work.
Unless you are an expert with the platform and can solve what ever issues creep up quickly and get back on the road.

most people with turbo miatas do have a second main vehicle.

Can a nicely setup turbo miata be used am a main vehicle reliably? sure, but that requires having good knowledge of the platform mechanics and using good quality reliable parts.

It would be wise to get a reliable beater, and if you truly like the driving experience of a miata, keep it as a long term project car to modify and learn on.

Psyber ran his 400hp miata as a daily for years until he got a daily this year.

as i said, he is an expert in the platform, with quality parts.

a noob, with shit parts will not have similar results. as evident in this thread

even a n00b can have a reliable turbo Miata if he gets quality parts and follows "the MT brick road" to not sucking :)

Glowing red = major problems with tune.

You should buy the z4m. My sales manager's wife has one and it always gets her to pilates just fine.

The s2000 is a good choice if you just want a quick-ish, light-ish, reliable roadster that doesn't need to be tinkered with. Sometimes when you have a bad experience with a platform, it's best to just move on.

I don't have any interest in the Z4m personally, I am sure it is a nice, comfortable and quick car with very little personality.

Yea I drove one of the 3.0is and the clutch was way vague but it was powerful. I'm sure the z4m would be way more power since it should outrun a mustang GT but it would likely not have the personality unless im drifting it. That's kind of why I am leaning towards a mustang or the s2000. I would prefer s2k but they are way expensive for what they are. Even if I leave miatas for a while I will be back because they are way fun to toss around a mountain road.

S2000s are expensive, but they do have something special about them that makes them worth it imo and they can be an absolute track beast if you start modifying them. Ive owned 4, but ironically never tracked them (it was before I was into HPDE).

Owned 2 s2k's years back (01 AP1 and 04 AP2) and my brother had a z4m coupe. Fun cars, and since my 04 AP2 met it's demise as a total theft back in 2013 (stolen and never found), i still miss it to this day. s2k gearbox is a thing of beauty and they are great looking cars, but the insurance premium and current market for a decent example doesn't make it as appealing an option when a C5 corvette is pretty much priced the same and the better performing car. the z4m is fun, but it's not particularly light. His z4m also had VANOS solenoid issues that were hilariously expensive to resolve and I hear it's a somewhat common issue on them.

All that said, my miata is my favorite of the 3, even with the dookie turbo setup my MSM has right now.

I drove the Z4 M last night and it was amazing. Now I am kicking myself since I have no idea whether its worth that much of amazing. I have a friend pushing me towards a 2009 mustang GT (2009 was first year they got SYNC) which can be found for around 8 grand. It would be faster and much much cheaper to maintain.

It's amusing at how impressed you are with all those slow cars. Your mind would be blown if you got to drive a properly boosted Miata :)

The bimmer is cool until something breaks or needs maint, and then you'll cry into your wallet.

As a previous 135i and 335i owner, i still have PTSD over this. Too much real life here :(

Yea I am thinking about taking the money from the beemer and just getting a 2011 GT. Maintenance on that would be cheaper by far. @18psi I would love to see a 1.6 with a full FM kit beat a new 5.0 GT. Those kits can put down some power at 12.5 psi I will give them that but I don't think many of them could beat a new GT.

Funny you say that: I have had two '15 coyote GT's within the last year :) actually still have one of them now
previous was a premium auto with 3.55 gears. I currently own a 15 performance pack manual with 3.73's with a whipple charger. 700hp.

But you're missing the point: a b6 1.6 is a terrible engine to start with, and FM turbo bits are outdated and mediocre at best nowadays. I would do neither of those things. You can build a 300whp Miata for a little less than 15 grand, or go buy harolds for exactly 15 grand, and it will put a hurting on a stock gt , and FEEL way more exciting, raw, incredible in the process. None of those other cars will ever feel like a properly done Miata. Trust me, I've had 7 of my own and compared them to everything under the sun over the years.

So if you wanna do "Miata" right, sell your janky contraption, daily another car in the meantime, and start looking for a proper Miata: a 1.8 with proper modern turbo parts

I vote Mustang. Just get a Mustang and get rid of the Miata. Please.

Buy the mustang, please.