Help me Choose 1
 

Quick question to all. Please respond with opinions. If given the choice between taking a 2002SE and having it professionally rebuilt for turbo at the 270hp/250tq wheel HP level, and then dialing in the suspension and aero on your own vs. purchasing a 2007 Lotus Exige S. Which would you do. I left out the details just to keep it simple.

I don't know what elises go for in the americas, but there's no way I'd ever pay ~20k+ for a plastic box w/ british engineering.

Turbo that bish

+1111111

After searching Lotustalk and some major cities on CL, I'm finding that a 2007 S goes for aout $35k... some a bit more, some a bit less.

With that kind of money, you can have either a 2007 Lotus Exige S, or you can...

Turbo your 2002 to 250whp with one of the proven offerings from Begi or FM, and use it as your DD... plus build an all-motor NA track car... plus buy a hauler for it... plus the truck to tow it... plus a couple years worth of track-days.

^this. x100000

Depends on what you're going to use the car for and how much garage space you have. The 2 options don't seem to be similar in price though.

I have been working with BEGi and we have the build to approx 12k for motor and turbo. That does not yet include exhaust, clutch, suspension, safety, radiator, wheels & tires or aesthetics and aero, rough est 10k. Paid 12k for the car in 2007 so thats 24k. Add it all up thats around 34k, right around the market value of the Exige. I know lots of you guys have successfully built cars sitting at the 270hp/250tq mark. Will the 34k Miata take an Exige? The big quandry is that they are both in the same $$ ballpark.

What?

$12k for a built motor and a turbo set up? and then an extra $22k for misc. stuff? You may want to recalculate your figures and maybe look at other options.

You can talk to the baller-absurd flow track gods of the forums for advice and other options. I don't think I'm being optimistic by saying that you can drop 15k on a very well rounded track set up.

Have you talked to trackspeed engineering??? Don't pull trigger until you do!

buffon01
10k for misc stuff. 12k for motor rebuild and turbo kit. Already paid 12k for the car. 34k. Im going to go over my quote again and make sure my numbers added up right. Your saying 15k for a complete setup, help me please. The motor build even left quite a bit on the table for the sake of cost savings. I don't remember motorbuilds being that expensive either back in 2000 and 2001. I wonder if i shoudl just Rebello rebuild it for that kind of coin.

djp0623
I talked to Andrew yesterday (I think). They are not doing any labor work until the summer.

I don't maybe I'm getting to old for this stuff. I grew up modifying cars in the Bay Area until I left for the Army in 2005. I supppose it was just easier to do based on the geography, car culture and attitude. Ever since I have tried to get back into it around 2007, it's been a struggle for me. Relationships with shops were easier to make back then, instead of all this forum talk, majority of the tuners met up at either the BART stations in their areas or we all met up at the Krispy Kreme. Talked cars, shot the ----, visited families. It's just not the same anymore. Do this build, buy the Exige or just hang it all up......

At this juncture are you a DIY guy or are you a buy and ride guy? The answer to that can help make your decision easier. The forum thing may not be for you, but if you stick around enough you'll find out that there is a lot of track support from the members here.

I vote for building a badass car. However, you need to make up your mind about what you really want.

At this current state in time I don't know. I guess I've de-evolved to a buy guy. I used to be DIY, although I've never put a. engine together, had the convenience of being mins from Rebello Racing, PR Motorsports, Sanderson Headers, WeaponX, OBX and many other well known places. Let me ask you a question. Is $8k a reasonable amt. of $$ for a built motor and Garrett based turbo kit looking to push 270hp/250tq to the wheels?

I'm assuming you intend to sell the 02 miata in your sig to partially finance your potential Lotus purchase. If you assume a 12k purchase + 12k mods + 11k misc? into the miata, it's sunk cost will = the lotus purchase.

You have to consider that in the 5 years since you bought your car it has depreciated and may be worth 6-8k (guess). This makes the Lotus even more expensive as you will have to make up the depreciated value of the miata with cash to equal the Lotus purchase price.

As others have said there are substantially cheaper ways to make the power you are looking for from the miata and do it reliably. The 8k is 5k for turbo stuff and 3k for engine? If so that seems in line with what shops want if they are setting you up with everything.

If you want a simple opinion I'd do the miata because I imagine it would be more fun and comfortable (though get you less admiring glances) than the Lotus.

Well that depends on what are the components you have in mind. However, 5-8k seems reasonable. I'd recommend you build your set up with v-bands (if you decide to go with the build) to avoid stuff coming loose in under stress. Contact Tim at Absurdflow, or Artech. Maybe the members near you can point you to a good shop for your motor.

I agree the 4-6k difference in the Miata's value does bump the cost of the Lotus up a bit more. I guess the substantial areo and use of carbon makes that a bit more reasonable. The Miata has given me 4 years of trouble free service though...Priceless

That would've been my guess as well regarding the build and initial cost for the power package. As with every build there will be much more to do down the road, I just have to wonder if my initial injection of $$ is substantial or out of line. If you have a shop in mind that you think may have an interest in the build, put me in touch with them.

Please point me in the right direction. I thought 8k for a built power package was reasonable. If not let me know. I've been in touch with Abe about the exhaust and he has my word, that portion of the build belongs to ARTech.

I'm probably going to call Rebello Racing tommorrow and get a rebuild quote from them. If I'm going to spend that kind of coin, might as well go with a proven performer.

I have a good mind to just piece this thing together like the old days and assemble it minus the engine myself.

Just to clarify the 8k was earmarked for a built engine and turbo kit.

Well what I mean is that I'm in the boat (no pun intended) that you could get a very good bottom end for $3k. The supertech piston/M-tune Rods combo (~$770) is rather popular amongst budget builds. I don't know if you want to go with $900 rods and $900 pistons (figures are completely arbitrary). I've also seen people that deal directly with the machine shops (honing, boring... etc) and take all the components ready to be assemble to an engine builder. Which should charge per hour, I suppose, thus lowering the cost.

There are some "how to" and "recommendation" threads regarding building motors floating around the forum. You can save cash by going over them. I think that the 8k figure is a bit inflated, but I'm broke as ----... so yeah.

Don't forget about the other costs involved with the cars. Call you insurance company and ask for a quote on that Lotus.

The Miata is cheaper to maintain, easier to fix, easier to get parts for...and when you know your car and are comfortable doing work yourself, you save $$$.
I am caught in a similar debate. While I love my car, it's speed, the handling, looks and everything else, sometimes I still feel like I'm driving a "boyracemobile" and should be working on something more "mature". But for now, I'm keeping the Miata, fixing/upgrading the little things and plan on holding onto it for awhile. I'd say just get the turbo kit put on, get a nice tune (go for the 260/270rwhp) and have fun with it...while working out the built engine details.

I've used a local rebuilder (there is a difference between a builder and a rebuilder) to myself and he does any machining I can't, which is minimal.

I do most things myself and have ~4k into my engine ancillaries and turbo set up and it's reliable for the street but I bought loads of things second hand and my engine is stock.

For the $$ you're talking to have a turnkey car it doesn't sound bad.

I really would think about what doppelganger is saying re insurance, image etc. I drive my car because it is what I want and not really a compromise.

If I could own a lotus as a fun summer car and keep the miata for more of a scary track day car I would in a heart beat.

My good friend used to have an elise and I absolutely loved it. I am not into buying a car and leaving it alone, but I could appreciate a well balanced extremely light weight car that I could fling around back roads from time to time.

If I had to choose solely between a high power miata vs bone stock Lotus tho... I would choose building my own Miata. Same reason why I have a 225 rwhp endless project rather than a near stock s2000 for the same money.

I also have a yellow 2002 SE. I am running a stock motor with a FM11/Hydra that I installed in 07 with a Act clutch and light flywheel, 2.5" exhaust, tein monoflexs, 55mm rad. and other odds and ends. I haven't dyno'd it, but similar setups have dyno'd around 230 whp. I haven't seen an Elise that can go by me yet on the track. You don't need to build your motor to have it fast if you want to settle for say 40 hp less. I run 11 to 12 psi. John

Sounds like the same progression I went through to end up building my LS6 '01. I've found I enjoy tinkering with my turbo cars that were already boosted cars ('05 Suby LegacyGT and now my wife's Mini S supercharged) than building a turbo car from a non-boosted car. That and emissions, and aftermarket ECUs and readily available parts.

It's the slippery slope that never seems to end. I've still got a little ways to go to have my car be a daily driver without quirks but I'm closer than I every was with my built motor/turboed car.

I do question if you could live with the Exige as a daily driver if it was your daily. Especially in NY with crappy weather and actually seasons that aren't 80 degrees and dry.

Thanks for the feedback everyone. jmann aren't you selling your car on craigslist? How do you like the monoflexes? I have a set waiting for me to return home. Right now I think I'm going to take the slow and steady approach. I'm tabling the build in favor of getting the ECU and learning to tune on the stock motor first. I would hate to mess it up and blow a rebuilt motor due to learning curve. jmann how do you like the Hydra? Right now its a toss up between the FM Hydra and Boundary Engineering's Adaptronic. Experiences on each would be appreciated.

Yes I do have the 02 SE for sale on Craigs list, thats because I bought a 99, which I have made into a full fledged track only car. I just couldn't bring myself to do to a yellow SE what I did to the 99 for the track. As for the Hydra I have the 2.5 in the 02 as it was installed in 07. It has been problem free, I haven't had a laptop hooked up to it since about 4 weeks after installing. There are a few quirks that are different then the factory ecu. It takes a smidgen longer to start then the factory ecu and when you have the ac on or on defrost which also runs the ac compressor it idles up and down a few hundred rpm, nothing that bothers me though. NOw for the 2.7 Hydra. It starts the car just like the factory ecu. As for the ac idle thing I can't say as I took the ac off of the 99, but still have the heater in it as we have alot of damp track days here in the NW in the spring and I want the defroster working. I have used the defrost and its doesn't change the idle like the 2.5 does, so I am assuming it wouldn't either with ac on. The 2.7 autotunes all the time, even without the laptop hooked up, as to where the 2.5 only saves about 12% without the laptop hooked up I believe Jeremy once told me. The maps in the 2.7 are bigger and better. Another thing is the 2.7 you don't have to upload from the ecu to the laptop when you hookup to it and download to the ecu when unhooking. The 2.7 does all that automatically, so any changes you make to any maps while hooked up to the ecu are automatically saved. The only time you have to hit save is when you are doing changes off line with the laptop. The big issue with the 2.7 has been getting it to control the alt., and that has now been fixed and works great. Both versions of Hydra controls the VVT very excellent also. As for getting used to it first, I wouldn't worry about it. There really isn't much playing around you need to do unless you are a geek and just can't kkep your hands off of fideling with it. The only changes that really need to be done is if you dyno the car and want to get every last HP out of it. You tell Jeremy what your setup is and he well install a base map in it and it WELL work with the setup you have right from the getgo and the auto tuning well do the rest. I am not a computer geek, but I do understand enough to surf around in it but have never dyno'd either car and they both go like crazy and have never hurt an engine and I drove the 99 around a doz. different track days hard in "A" group last season without an issue and have never had one with the 02 either. Good Luck

PS As for the monoflexes I like better then the earlier flexes for using on the street also, as compared to other brands I can't speak as other then Koni sport this is all I've had on a miata. I hear the Xida's are great also but cost more. I have 10 kg frt and 8's rear for springs.

jmann
I lived in Port Orchard, WA from 2007 to 2011. I think it's funny that after I left the Miata scene seemed to pick up. Does the 2.7 have map switching? I'm thinking of having different maps for fuel grade.

I don't know, I would call FM and ask Jeremy. Why were you in PO?, were you in the service, NY is quite a change.

Yes I'm in the Army and was stationed at Joint Base Lewis McChord. NY is quite a change, but luckily for the Miata she'll be put away for the winter months, unlike the 70 mile commute she had to endure every day. I'm glad to hear that the Hydra can be a "set it and forget it" affair. I was originally thinking MS but it seems like the MS users are constantly HAVING to tweak their ECUs. It seems that as much tinkering needed to keep the MS ECUs happy, one would just switch to carbs or IRTBs.

mcs... what are you going to use this car for? I skimmed the thread again, but I can't find what you're going to do with this thing?

Everything. More DD than weekender (toy) then as time goes by she'll be retired from the street, minus the occasional jaunt on the highway or the track. My oldest will be driving in 8-9 years and my youngest in 13 or so. I'm looking for a good deal on a 02SE Grey as well. At the time they start driving, I'll let the oldest choose which one she wants and will reprogram the ECU to MSM specs. At that point in my life both cars should be identically setup. One for each.