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-   -   I will never deal with Good-Win-Racing again... (https://www.miataturbo.net/general-miata-chat-9/i-will-never-deal-good-win-racing-again-78688/)

alangbaker 04-24-2014 11:55 PM

I will never deal with Good-Win-Racing again...
 
...ever. This is a little long, but I need to get some of this off my chest. I've been patient, I've been polite, but now I'm pissed off. I hope you'll take a moment and read it.

On April 6, after checking and consulting on many options, I order a SpeedSport SL1 clutch with steel flywheel from Good-Win-Racing at a price of $895; no small sum, but I thought it was the best option for my needs. And I'll freely admit: Brian Goodwin helped me reach my decision with good, and timely information. At the same time, because I'd been meaning to get around to it, I ordered a set of headrest speakers to replace my blown out units.

Shortly, there was an order confirmation in my inbox and then a shipping confirmation and tracking number; no word in either email that I wasn't getting everything I ordered. So I was delighted when a few days later, I got word from TSB Shipping that my package from Good-Win-Racing had arrived, since the rate determining step (at that point) to getting my 1990 back on the road was having a clutch to install on my new bottom end and I could deliver it to my car guy to have him start putting things back together.

So I took time out of my day to drive 45 minutes down and across the border (in my gas-guzzling Dodge pickup tow vehicle)... ...and discovered that all that arrived were the headrest speakers.

A quick call to Good-Win from the mail house led me to discover (for the first time) that the clutch was a build-to-order item and that it should ship "in about 10 days". And lo-and-behold, when I checked the webpage for the clutch, it had suddenly sprung language to that effect.

OK, fair enough. A bit of a misunderstanding. 90 minutes of my day and gas. No biggie.

But 10 days came and went and when the time stretched to two weeks, I sent (as it was specifically mentioned that I should) a quick email asking "Update please". Now, that was a Sunday, and I was pleased to see a reply from Brian saying he would check with SpeedSport on Monday.

But Monday came and went, and half of Tuesday, and I still hadn't heard. So I emailed again. It wasn't until Wednesday that I was informed that SpeedSport "expected" to ship my clutch on Friday.

At the time I received that message, I had been waiting 17 days for a product that was supposed to be "made and shipped in about 10 days" (big surprise! The language on the page now reads: "allow at least 10 days to make and ship") So I asked very politely if Good-Win might consider using a faster shipping method to help me get my car back together.

My exact words:

"A quick check with UPS shows that going from ground shipping to 2-day air is probably going to cost an additional $60. I hope that you and SpeedSport can help me out to that extent."


And here was Brian's reply:

"Just say the word and we can cancel and refund that right now."


And in that same email, a smarmy:

IF you don't agree, let's just cancel and refund it now and the next guy in line behind you will be thrilled that his shipped faster than expected.


I very nearly told him right then and there to go ahead and cancel and then I would have written this post yesterday, but I talked it over with a couple of people I know and trust, and I decided to say nothing more and just wait.

Then I got a slightly more conciliatory email from Brian that said:

"Sorry that has taken so long, it's a ONE-man show building those and in peak season (which is now) that one man is doing the best he can."


OK, I GET one man shows. Hell, I'M a one man show. But part of being in business (one man show or not) is making good on your promises. So I sent back a fairly light email that said:
"I do appreciate that, but if he’s building that many clutches then he could probably afford to cut me a little break in time on a more expedited shipping."
And I finished my email with:

"I do like the product and the supporting info you’ve provided, but I hope you can see my side of this.

Thanks for staying on top of it."


And here's what Brian just sent me:

"Actually, I don't see you side of it at all.

I waited a year to get the first of these in my car. I was patient an entire year because that's how long it took to make this unique product right.

Your clutch order is cancelled and refunded, figure your bank will show the funds back within about 24 to 48 hours."


I don't know what you call this, but I don't call it customer service. How long he waited to get a prototype product designed and right is IRRELEVANT. This was a product proffered for sale by Good-Win-Racing, not a one-off being made just for me.

I gave Brian Goodwin my $900 (plus shipping!) in good faith, only to discover that the product represented on his website no differently than other products he could actually ship then and there would take "about 10 days", then more than 14 days, more than 17 days, "expected" to take 19 days... ...and all I asked for was a little give and take. I didn't demand he drive it up to me personally or ship it overnight. Just maybe make $30 bucks less each (he and SpeedSport) to help a repeat customer get his car back on the road after waiting nearly twice as long as his information (after the fact) implied it was going to take.

And he comes back with the money will be off my Visa in 24-48 hours...

Mazduh 04-25-2014 12:09 AM

Wow... Customer is usually right and I don't think you were in the wrong. He at least could have said no, but chose to word his responses sarcastically. That's just inappropriate. Any business, whether your big or small, just going that extra mile is way more cost effective and better than pulling a stunt like this. Even if he wasn't able to do shipping but threw in a free shirt or decals or something that would have been pretty cool. But yeah sorry to hear about this OP.

alangbaker 04-25-2014 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mazduh (Post 1125165)
Wow... Customer is usually right and I don't think you were in the wrong. He at least could have said no, but chose to word his responses sarcastically. That's just inappropriate. Any business, whether your big or small, just going that extra mile is way more cost effective and better than pulling a stunt like this. Even if he wasn't able to do shipping but threw in a free shirt or decals or something that would have been pretty cool. But yeah sorry to hear about this OP.

Thanks.

I'm sorry about it, too.

But I won't take that kind of nonsense from anyone. I didn't say I'd cancel my order, or even hint at it. I ASKED for a little consideration and got back attitude.

The hell of it is that he came back to me after I was just going to let it go, so I though maybe he was feeling a little bad about the way he'd handled things. I thought perhaps I was giving him a way he could be the magnanimous one and instead I got cut off at the knees!

What... ...the... ...hell?

Fireindc 04-25-2014 12:26 AM

Bummer man, always had good experiences with good-win myself.. but that is pretty bad.

Now get a 949 racing or an FM clutch ;)

thirdgen 04-25-2014 12:28 AM

I want to know what makes that clutch you ordered so special.

alangbaker 04-25-2014 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fireindc (Post 1125168)
Bummer man, always had good experiences with good-win myself.. but that is pretty bad.

Now get a 949 racing or an FM clutch ;)

Or see if there's another dealer for SpeedSport...

Thanks for the sympathy.

It's easy to be a good businessman when everything is running smooth. The trick comes when you need to manage a situation that's gone a little sideways.

It would have cost him very little to make me a completely happy camper, and he CHOSE to screw me over.

alangbaker 04-25-2014 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thirdgen (Post 1125169)
I want to know what makes that clutch you ordered so special.

By using carbon friction surfaces, they're able to get a very streetable effort and engagement in a clutch that will hold 300lb-ft.

Not only that, but if you want super, super light, then the aluminum flywheel of this clutch combines with the lighter carbon parts of the rest of the clutch to give you one of the lightest clutches you can get short of 949's insane twin-disc.

What I want is to build a Miata that's not a hard to live with boy-racer-mobile. I want to build up the kind of Miata that Mazda might have made if they were aiming higher up the price spectrum; a $39K Miata in 1989, instead of $13K.

:)

turbofan 04-25-2014 01:13 AM

As if all the snark wasn't enough, cancelling an order that the customer never requested to have cancelled? I'd be curious to see the rest of your email to him, but this looks really lame at this point.

alangbaker 04-25-2014 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbofan (Post 1125176)
As if all the snark wasn't enough, cancelling an order that the customer never requested to have cancelled? I'd be curious to see the rest of your email to him, but this looks really lame at this point.

After Brian emailed me again, asking for my appreciation about small suppliers and busy seasons, I wrote him this:
Brian,

I do appreciate that, but if he’s building that many clutches then he could probably afford to cut me a little break in time on a more expedited shipping. I checked a little bit, and upgrading from standard ground to 2-day air shipping would probably cost about $60. (Assuming a shipping weight of about 30lbs at 12x12x6 (IIRC).

Is $30 from him and $30 from you really that much to keep a customer happy?

I do like the product and the supporting info you’ve provided, but I hope you can see my side of this.

Thanks for staying on top of it.

Cheers,

Alan
The next words I read from Brian were:
Actually, I don't see you side of it at all.

I waited a year to get the first of these in my car. I was patient an entire year because that's how long it took to make this unique product right.

Your clutch order is cancelled and refunded, figure your bank will show the funds back within about 24 to 48 hours.


Brian Goodwin
That's it: verbatim.

I had let it go, he came looking for absolution I asked for a little consideration.

Ryan_G 04-25-2014 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alangbaker (Post 1125173)

By using carbon friction surfaces, they're able to get a very streetable effort and engagement in a clutch that will hold 300lb-ft.

Not only that, but if you want super, super light, then the aluminum flywheel of this clutch combines with the lighter carbon parts of the rest of the clutch to give you one of the lightest clutches you can get short of 949's insane twin-disc.

What I want is to build a Miata that's not a hard to live with boy-racer-mobile. I want to build up the kind of Miata that Mazda might have made if they were aiming higher up the price spectrum; a $39K Miata in 1989, instead of $13K.

:)

I DD an FM2 and the pedal effort is only slightly heavier than my stock msm clutch, engagement is low but easily modulated for smoothness, and it holds 353 ft/lbs. Clutch and flywheel were far less than $900. Still fairly light.

alangbaker 04-25-2014 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan_G (Post 1125180)
I DD an FM2 and the pedal effort is only slightly heavier than my stock msm clutch, engagement is low but easily modulated for smoothness, and it holds 353 ft/lbs. Clutch and flywheel were far less than $900. Still fairly light.

Thanks for the suggestion. I appreciate it. :)

mgeoffriau 04-25-2014 01:25 AM

Eh, you weren't happy with the delay; he refunded your money. Hardly seems like he "screwed you over" as you claim he did over on m.net.

Also, I'm curious -- are you under the impression that it's a vendor's responsibility to know that you are having things shipped to an address that requires a 90 minute round trip for you to pick up?

alangbaker 04-25-2014 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mgeoffriau (Post 1125182)
Eh, you weren't happy with the delay; he refunded your money. Hardly seems like he "screwed you over" as you claim he did over on m.net.

Also, I'm curious -- are you under the impression that it's a vendor's responsibility to know that you are having things shipped to an address that requires a 90 minute round trip for you to pick up?

No. It's a vendor's responsibility to inform me what is shipping and what is not. If I had know what was coming was just the speakers, I wouldn't have bothered making that trip.

I expressed my dissatisfaction with the delay, yes, but I chose not to make an issue of it when he replied further.

Then he came back to me looking for absolution or something, and I told him what absolution would cost him $60 ($30 if he could have split it with SpeedSport). I didn't demand it: I asked for it.

At that point, with me not asking for my money back and him having my money, I still expect him to carry through on his end of the deal.

Now, because he didn't like being held accountable for the promises he made but could keep, he's put my getting a clutch into my car off by at least an extra week.

kenzo42 04-25-2014 02:47 AM

What a dick for.

Yezzir 04-25-2014 03:56 AM

Sorry to hear about your experience. I wouldn't do business with him again either! Belittling a customer is just asking for it.

Oscar 04-25-2014 06:11 AM

I've never had problems with Brian but this is kind of a dick move. Now use that refund for a 949 clutch/flywheel and spend whatever's left over on beer.

[email protected] 04-25-2014 09:08 AM

I had this exact feeling a couple of years ago after asking for some post-sales support on a significantly less expensive purchase, but still...

Quote:

Like the title says: “Complete Upgraded Motor Mounts.” The product description then goes into detail about how you are NOT using any of the factory engine mount….yet for some reason you trying to force a complete replacement engine mount into a piece of the old mount.

Brian Goodwin

Good-Win Racing
Maybe splitting hairs, but the politeness certainly isn't there.

I really like their motor mounts, though.

pdexta 04-25-2014 09:10 AM

I'm genuinely disappointed to read this, but glad you shared.

I've bought TONS of stuff from them and always gotten great service. Parts that aren't in stock have always been noted, delays have been shorter than indicated, and parts that are in stock always ship out within 24 hours. They're one of the few vendors that I haven't had routinely had problems with.

y8s 04-25-2014 09:21 AM

I wonder why some people have a hard time saying "no"...

"Can I get my clutch shipped faster?"

"no"

sixshooter 04-25-2014 10:03 AM

I've never had any reason to doubt Brian. I'll give the benefit of the doubt there.

Like it or not, what you ordered is a custom built piece that is pretty pricey and has probably very little margin to start with. He probably hasn't sold many and may have had less trouble getting one in short order previously, during a less active time of the year. He may have even been frustrated with the supplier delay himself.

As a dealer for many products myself, I have been frustrated by customer complaints over delays and other issues completely out of my control on a daily basis. Sometimes people rub each other the wrong way. Sometimes a particular email isn't the problem, but the one or two immediately prior to it have already created a situation of abnormal stress. Everybody has bad days when the pressure is on and the people you rely upon are not delivering for you. Would I have handled it that way? Probably not, but I'm known for my patience. I probably wouldn't have handled it the way you did, either.

If given the choice between giving away 50% of the likely profit on an "in demand" component to someone who has rubbed you the wrong way and inventorying it for the next full price customer, I can see the allure of the latter.


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