I will never deal with Good-Win-Racing again...
 

...ever. This is a little long, but I need to get some of this off my chest. I've been patient, I've been polite, but now I'm pissed off. I hope you'll take a moment and read it.

On April 6, after checking and consulting on many options, I order a SpeedSport SL1 clutch with steel flywheel from Good-Win-Racing at a price of $895; no small sum, but I thought it was the best option for my needs. And I'll freely admit: Brian Goodwin helped me reach my decision with good, and timely information. At the same time, because I'd been meaning to get around to it, I ordered a set of headrest speakers to replace my blown out units.

Shortly, there was an order confirmation in my inbox and then a shipping confirmation and tracking number; no word in either email that I wasn't getting everything I ordered. So I was delighted when a few days later, I got word from TSB Shipping that my package from Good-Win-Racing had arrived, since the rate determining step (at that point) to getting my 1990 back on the road was having a clutch to install on my new bottom end and I could deliver it to my car guy to have him start putting things back together.

So I took time out of my day to drive 45 minutes down and across the border (in my gas-guzzling Dodge pickup tow vehicle)... ...and discovered that all that arrived were the headrest speakers.

A quick call to Good-Win from the mail house led me to discover (for the first time) that the clutch was a build-to-order item and that it should ship "in about 10 days". And lo-and-behold, when I checked the webpage for the clutch, it had suddenly sprung language to that effect.

OK, fair enough. A bit of a misunderstanding. 90 minutes of my day and gas. No biggie.

But 10 days came and went and when the time stretched to two weeks, I sent (as it was specifically mentioned that I should) a quick email asking "Update please". Now, that was a Sunday, and I was pleased to see a reply from Brian saying he would check with SpeedSport on Monday.

But Monday came and went, and half of Tuesday, and I still hadn't heard. So I emailed again. It wasn't until Wednesday that I was informed that SpeedSport "expected" to ship my clutch on Friday.

At the time I received that message, I had been waiting 17 days for a product that was supposed to be "made and shipped in about 10 days" (big surprise! The language on the page now reads: "allow at least 10 days to make and ship") So I asked very politely if Good-Win might consider using a faster shipping method to help me get my car back together.

My exact words:

"A quick check with UPS shows that going from ground shipping to 2-day air is probably going to cost an additional $60. I hope that you and SpeedSport can help me out to that extent."

And here was Brian's reply:

"Just say the word and we can cancel and refund that right now."

And in that same email, a smarmy:

IF you don't agree, let's just cancel and refund it now and the next guy in line behind you will be thrilled that his shipped faster than expected.

I very nearly told him right then and there to go ahead and cancel and then I would have written this post yesterday, but I talked it over with a couple of people I know and trust, and I decided to say nothing more and just wait.

Then I got a slightly more conciliatory email from Brian that said:

"Sorry that has taken so long, it's a ONE-man show building those and in peak season (which is now) that one man is doing the best he can."

OK, I GET one man shows. Hell, I'M a one man show. But part of being in business (one man show or not) is making good on your promises. So I sent back a fairly light email that said:
And I finished my email with:

"I do like the product and the supporting info you’ve provided, but I hope you can see my side of this.

Thanks for staying on top of it."

And here's what Brian just sent me:

"Actually, I don't see you side of it at all.

I waited a year to get the first of these in my car. I was patient an entire year because that's how long it took to make this unique product right.

Your clutch order is cancelled and refunded, figure your bank will show the funds back within about 24 to 48 hours."

I don't know what you call this, but I don't call it customer service. How long he waited to get a prototype product designed and right is IRRELEVANT. This was a product proffered for sale by Good-Win-Racing, not a one-off being made just for me.

I gave Brian Goodwin my $900 (plus shipping!) in good faith, only to discover that the product represented on his website no differently than other products he could actually ship then and there would take "about 10 days", then more than 14 days, more than 17 days, "expected" to take 19 days... ...and all I asked for was a little give and take. I didn't demand he drive it up to me personally or ship it overnight. Just maybe make $30 bucks less each (he and SpeedSport) to help a repeat customer get his car back on the road after waiting nearly twice as long as his information (after the fact) implied it was going to take.

And he comes back with the money will be off my Visa in 24-48 hours...

Wow... Customer is usually right and I don't think you were in the wrong. He at least could have said no, but chose to word his responses sarcastically. That's just inappropriate. Any business, whether your big or small, just going that extra mile is way more cost effective and better than pulling a stunt like this. Even if he wasn't able to do shipping but threw in a free shirt or decals or something that would have been pretty cool. But yeah sorry to hear about this OP.

Thanks.

I'm sorry about it, too.

But I won't take that kind of nonsense from anyone. I didn't say I'd cancel my order, or even hint at it. I ASKED for a little consideration and got back attitude.

The hell of it is that he came back to me after I was just going to let it go, so I though maybe he was feeling a little bad about the way he'd handled things. I thought perhaps I was giving him a way he could be the magnanimous one and instead I got cut off at the knees!

What... ...the... ...hell?

Bummer man, always had good experiences with good-win myself.. but that is pretty bad.

Now get a 949 racing or an FM clutch ;)

I want to know what makes that clutch you ordered so special.

Or see if there's another dealer for SpeedSport...

Thanks for the sympathy.

It's easy to be a good businessman when everything is running smooth. The trick comes when you need to manage a situation that's gone a little sideways.

It would have cost him very little to make me a completely happy camper, and he CHOSE to screw me over.

By using carbon friction surfaces, they're able to get a very streetable effort and engagement in a clutch that will hold 300lb-ft.

Not only that, but if you want super, super light, then the aluminum flywheel of this clutch combines with the lighter carbon parts of the rest of the clutch to give you one of the lightest clutches you can get short of 949's insane twin-disc.

What I want is to build a Miata that's not a hard to live with boy-racer-mobile. I want to build up the kind of Miata that Mazda might have made if they were aiming higher up the price spectrum; a $39K Miata in 1989, instead of $13K.

:)

As if all the snark wasn't enough, cancelling an order that the customer never requested to have cancelled? I'd be curious to see the rest of your email to him, but this looks really lame at this point.

After Brian emailed me again, asking for my appreciation about small suppliers and busy seasons, I wrote him this:
The next words I read from Brian were:
That's it: verbatim.

I had let it go, he came looking for absolution I asked for a little consideration.

I DD an FM2 and the pedal effort is only slightly heavier than my stock msm clutch, engagement is low but easily modulated for smoothness, and it holds 353 ft/lbs. Clutch and flywheel were far less than $900. Still fairly light.

Thanks for the suggestion. I appreciate it. :)

Eh, you weren't happy with the delay; he refunded your money. Hardly seems like he "screwed you over" as you claim he did over on m.net.

Also, I'm curious -- are you under the impression that it's a vendor's responsibility to know that you are having things shipped to an address that requires a 90 minute round trip for you to pick up?

No. It's a vendor's responsibility to inform me what is shipping and what is not. If I had know what was coming was just the speakers, I wouldn't have bothered making that trip.

I expressed my dissatisfaction with the delay, yes, but I chose not to make an issue of it when he replied further.

Then he came back to me looking for absolution or something, and I told him what absolution would cost him $60 ($30 if he could have split it with SpeedSport). I didn't demand it: I asked for it.

At that point, with me not asking for my money back and him having my money, I still expect him to carry through on his end of the deal.

Now, because he didn't like being held accountable for the promises he made but could keep, he's put my getting a clutch into my car off by at least an extra week.

What a dick for.

Sorry to hear about your experience. I wouldn't do business with him again either! Belittling a customer is just asking for it.

I've never had problems with Brian but this is kind of a dick move. Now use that refund for a 949 clutch/flywheel and spend whatever's left over on beer.

I had this exact feeling a couple of years ago after asking for some post-sales support on a significantly less expensive purchase, but still...

Maybe splitting hairs, but the politeness certainly isn't there.

I really like their motor mounts, though.

I'm genuinely disappointed to read this, but glad you shared.

I've bought TONS of stuff from them and always gotten great service. Parts that aren't in stock have always been noted, delays have been shorter than indicated, and parts that are in stock always ship out within 24 hours. They're one of the few vendors that I haven't had routinely had problems with.

I wonder why some people have a hard time saying "no"...

"Can I get my clutch shipped faster?"

"no"

I've never had any reason to doubt Brian. I'll give the benefit of the doubt there.

Like it or not, what you ordered is a custom built piece that is pretty pricey and has probably very little margin to start with. He probably hasn't sold many and may have had less trouble getting one in short order previously, during a less active time of the year. He may have even been frustrated with the supplier delay himself.

As a dealer for many products myself, I have been frustrated by customer complaints over delays and other issues completely out of my control on a daily basis. Sometimes people rub each other the wrong way. Sometimes a particular email isn't the problem, but the one or two immediately prior to it have already created a situation of abnormal stress. Everybody has bad days when the pressure is on and the people you rely upon are not delivering for you. Would I have handled it that way? Probably not, but I'm known for my patience. I probably wouldn't have handled it the way you did, either.

If given the choice between giving away 50% of the likely profit on an "in demand" component to someone who has rubbed you the wrong way and inventorying it for the next full price customer, I can see the allure of the latter.

+1 on the FM2 clutch. Very easy pedal feel (no harder than stock from what I can remember the stock clutch felt like) and I have had no problem holding my 320wtq. Take your business elsewhere. Like it or not, a good business owner has to learn to bite their lip in difficult times. IMO, you don't cancel a customer's order unless they ask for it to be cancelled. He should have just said; "I am very sorry, but I can't give you any discount. If you are not happy, I can cancel your order if you want me to. Just let me know."

^+1. I think the problem here is Brian's reaction. Should not cancel a customer order without a request to do so, and no need to be so snarky.

I am constantly bombarded by customers who are irritated about one delay or another. Sometimes we have to say no to their requests. Sometimes we can offer them a discount against other products due to a delay/thin profit margin on the product they're purchasing.

But just canceling an order, just like that? Jerk move.

This. In my opinion it doesn't even matter what the product was, if it's a special one off, whatever. If it's supposed to ship in 10 days, it should be on the truck no later then the 11th day. And if it's not, the least you could expect is a polite email saying that there's a delay. Sure, whatever. He waited a year to get his and he might be a little bit bitter about that but that's not in any way your problem. It's a matter of professionalism and running a business.

Sounds like FM will be getting your business instead. :laugh:

Personally, I think him canceling an order like that is kind of a dick move. However, you smearing his name like that on the internet, when you really did not get hurt in any way is completely outrageous.

Business is tough sometimes. Things don't always turn out smelling like roses. Get over it.

It takes a lot for me to fire a customer and show them the door....since I dedicate every day to helping Miata customers pursue their dream of the perfect Miata. Many of you know I try to answer your emails 365 days per year, including on my birthday, every holiday, Christmas, New Years, etc. Most folks appreciate what we do, and the lengths we go to, but perhaps once every few years somebody wants to act like they own me if they are waiting on a product they knew up front was custom made to order and would take time. Every passionate business person has a limit. That limit got crossed, you folks are getting just a taste of Alan in his lashing out here, but after he repeatedly made it clear he could not patiently wait for the product to be built, I calmly informed him that his money was refunded. Alan's response was to promise lots of mud slinging revenge (which reveals more about him), my preference is to make as many customers happy that I can make happy....knowing I can't make everybody happy. If somebody doesn't want to wait, I am certainly not the type to hold their funds hostage.

The best stuff often takes time...and I prefer the product goes to somebody who appreciates it without riding me every day on production beyond my control. This clutch has been a god-send for many of my supercharged and turbo customers who have replacement hips or replacement knees, it has brought real joy to lots of customers. One of them is my wife, all of 115 pounds she was brought to tears after she destroyed two heavy pedal ACT clutch kits in our supercharged Miata because she could not operate the heavy pedal... and that strongly motivated making this Carbon/Carbon clutch happen. It would be SO MUCH EASIER to simply offer off-the-shelf stuff that brings me no grief for slow shipping times, it's always the cool custom stuff that takes the most time and dedication to keep bringing to customers....and it's worth even bearing this stuff you see here for those customers who do appreciate what we do.

I disagree, Miata2fast.

My singularly most important criteria for doing business with someone is 'communication'.

About 4 weeks ago, I took my head to a shop to get it looked over and everything brought up to snuff with it. They told me it'd be out in a couple days.

2 weeks later, I call them since I hadn't heard anything. "Oh, the machinist doing your head was sick, no worries, we'll get it out in a couple days."

A couple days pass, I hear nothing. I wait a week, call them again. "Oh, the machinist doing your head is behind, no worries, we'll have it out in a few days."

A week passes, and I call them up yesterday. I find out that not only has my head been given to an inexperienced machinist (when it was ONLY supposed to have been done by the machinist we agreed upon), but he apparently cracked it somehow in the R&R (I don't even know HOW you can crack a head doing that, but whatever.), and the head was out getting repaired.

Tell me, would you do business with them after hearing my story?

TL;DR: Communication matters. How a business handles itself in the bad situations is probably the most important part of running a business.

There is a big difference between a total debacle, and a delay in shipping.

OP is pissed because he was inconvenienced, so he decides that someone has to pay for it.

Edit: It is unfair to expect total communication on every little hiccup when dealing with high volume product with smaller margins of profit.

Well, I ordered a set of those new 15x9 Advanti wheels from Brian yesterday. They shipped like 15 minutes after I put in the order, so . . . .

I must say, the delay OP encountered for custom, low-production, non-inventoried parts seems pretty inconsequential.

Looks like a personality clash here. It takes all kinds.

Peace! LOL. :dealwithit:

Again, I didn't demand he give me a discount, and if he hadn't reopened the email conversation I wouldn't even have asked...

...but he did reopen the conversation. He sent me and email, and I thought that he was looking for me to appreciate his situation, and tried to get him to appreciate mine, and I asked for a little consideration. Politely.

That's when the order was canceled.

I'd like to see the full emails, not the "cut/paste to suit my agenda" versions. I feel there is a lot being left out here.

And to be clear: at that point in the conversation, I said nothing and was content to wait.

Then Brian added: "Poor me! My suppliers are so busy! He's building so many clutches for me to sell!".

"Then how about taking a little bit of that money your making to make my situation a little better"

"No clutch for you!".

:(

This. Start to finish. Brian even said there was lots being left out. Spill it. Let the mob decide.

So what did you want when you emailed me back on Wednesday, Brian?

I'd had my say, you replied that it would be Friday and there was an end to it.

Did you need some absolution from me? Did I hurt your feelings by being disappointed that you never mentioned the delay in shipping until after you had my money?

What was the point? And why does simply ASKING for a small consideration (total $60 on a total order of more than $1000) warrant you cancelling my order?

Given the information in the first post is true and correct it was for sure a dick move on his part, won't be doing business with him, thanks for the heads up.

I help whomever I can help and have the luxury of not needing to deal with every customer who calls.

OP mentioned his lengthy conversations with Brian about the product and his application prior to purchase. As a professional sales person and former business manager, that costs money. It also costs productivity, as it takes time away from other tasks that are crucial to operating a profitable business. Most businesses that could offer really great custom services and parts don't do it because it is very time consuming. It is therefore much more troublesome and more difficult to realize a profit than simply remarketing an off the shelf product with zero support and internet only sales. It isn't Walmart and it isn't Burger King. You will get better knowledge and a better product with him than at those places, but you have to be patient and you have to pay more for it.

If you want custom and you want high-end products built by American craftsmen instead of children in China, it will cost the OP both time and money. In this case, I bet the OP cost Brian both, even if the transaction had been successful. Yes, even if the sale had gone through, I bet the OP was more costly than what he would have yielded Good-Win Racing. If Brian's time isn't worth at least $600 an hour to his company I'd be really surprised.

I have every intention of showing my good customers every ounce of attention and minute of time I can muster. I also know when someone who has taken entirely too much of my time already is costing me way more than they will ever spend. And I know I need to cut ties and return to those who both need my help, appreciate it, and make it profitable. I owe it to the owner of my company, my family, and myself.

It is interesting that a guy with only 10 posts since 2011 chooses to come in here and start posting a bunch of garbage about a well known and well respected paying vendor on our site who no one here has had any real problems with before.


I've heard it said "If all of your marriages end in divorce, it probably isn't the other people that have the problem."

It's even more interesting that he is choosing to only post a message or two from the email chain.

He posted the same thing over at m.net at the same time. They pruned the thread and then shut it down pretty quick.

Is that how everyone feels, Brian included?

I don't mind doing it. :)

So, let's get the full correspondence here and go from there. :)

I vote lock it!

Going off of this thread, you don't care how Brian feels about it, so go right on ahead.

No. I'm not pissed because I was inconvenienced. Well, I am, but that's not why I'm here writing about it.

I'm here writing about it because I had a deal made in good faith; my money in his hands, and when he came back to ME, I asked him for a small consideration.

ASKED. No demands, no ultimatums, nothing but a polite request.

And for that my order was cancelled.

And this isn't a high volume product with low margins. This is a low volume product (with pretty high margins, I'd bet) which was held up because it was apparently in large demand at the moment. That should have taken the sting out of the $60 he would have had to spend to make a customer happier.