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-   -   ITT you may discuss the need for a dual feed fuel rail (https://www.miataturbo.net/general-miata-chat-9/itt-you-may-discuss-need-dual-feed-fuel-rail-61442/)

hustler 11-03-2011 08:15 PM

ITT you may discuss the need for a dual feed fuel rail
 
I'd love to save some cash on fittings and do a single-feed style rail with my M-tuned rail. Do I really need to feed from both sides?

These pics suggest that #2 and #3 were hotter, I'm not sure if it's a coincidence considering the feeds are near # 1 and #2:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-3...0/IMAG0084.jpg
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-U...0/IMAG0085.jpg
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-R...0/IMAG0086.jpg
[/img]https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-eoJrLZZF5rU/TpbgfG3zefI/AAAAAAAAAds/UnYvGJtCU7o/s800/IMAG0087.jpg[/img]
What do you gays think?

18psi 11-03-2011 08:22 PM

Been proven time and time again that there's no difference

hustler 11-03-2011 09:27 PM


Originally Posted by 18psi (Post 791762)
Been proven time and time again that there's no difference

You may now explain the uneven cylinder temps.

spoolin2bars 11-03-2011 09:46 PM

the problem i see is making the assumption that under the boost, those cylinders are running hotter. what you're looking at is the evidence of what was happening while cruising at low load for hours, weeks, months, because, that is mainly what you do. to be able to tell what was happening under a heavy load, you would have to start with scrubbed clean combustion chamber valves, pistons, plugs, etc.... then start it, run the track hard and cut it off as you pulled in the pits. then pop the head off and have a look see. it could be said that if it's happening while cruising (leaner in 2&3) it's probably the same under load, but that's just not always the case. the flow of fuel and air @ 15psi wot in 4th, is drastically different than at 15% throttle, in vacuum, cruising in 6th

it'd be nice to have if your made of money, but i don't believe it's necessary at your planned power levels.

chpmnsws6 11-03-2011 10:24 PM

What about intake manifold or cylinder head flow being uneven?

sixshooter 11-03-2011 11:04 PM


Originally Posted by hustler (Post 791760)
Do I really need to feed from both sides?

Nope.

triple88a 11-03-2011 11:41 PM


Originally Posted by hustler (Post 791786)
You may now explain the uneven cylinder temps.


Originally Posted by chpmnsws6 (Post 791818)
What about intake manifold or cylinder head flow being uneven?

That ^

y8s 11-04-2011 10:07 AM

corollary discussion:

what are the benefits of an aftermarket fuel rail besides lighter wallet?

rleete 11-04-2011 10:34 AM

It looks cool. Impresses the hell out of ignorant people.

18psi 11-04-2011 10:56 AM

+1 thats about it

18psi 11-04-2011 10:59 AM


Originally Posted by hustler (Post 791786)
You may now explain the uneven cylinder temps.

Fuel delivery UP TO a certain cylinders' injector is not the only variable affecting uneven temperatures. Hell it could even be the injectors themselves flowing a tad less in #2 and #3.
Its all assumptions.

hustler 11-04-2011 12:36 PM


Originally Posted by rleete (Post 791975)
It looks cool. Impresses the hell out of ignorant people.

It also fits on a 99 engine with a stock FPR and was readily available.

Braineack 11-04-2011 01:00 PM

(Posting from my phone.)


Originally Posted by hustler

Originally Posted by rleete (Post 791975)
It looks cool. Impresses the hell out of ignorant people.

It also fits on a 99 engine with a stock FPR and was readily available.

Tom @ ffs likes dual feed. Nuff said.,

y8s 11-04-2011 01:02 PM


Originally Posted by rleete (Post 791975)
It looks cool. Impresses the hell out of ignorant people.

not sure you can even see mine in the car.

Savington 11-04-2011 02:02 PM


Originally Posted by y8s (Post 791961)
corollary discussion:

what are the benefits of an aftermarket fuel rail besides lighter wallet?

Larger bore = more fuel volume available = less localized pressure drop as each injector fires.

When Tim built me my .500"ID stainless rail, we were less worried about dual feed and more worried about making the ID as big as possible.

If I ever redo fuel lines, I will probably cap my 2nd feed and just do a single feed/return.

rleete 11-04-2011 02:44 PM


Originally Posted by hustler (Post 792034)
It also fits on a 99 engine with a stock FPR and was readily available.

Mine came with the SC package I bought. Will I use it? Sure. I have it, might as well put it on when I do the injectors. But if I didn't already have it, I'm now convinced that it really isn't necessary.

hustler 11-04-2011 04:06 PM

Cool, I'll save a lot of money. Not enough for an AFPR from Fuel Lab, but enough to take your slore girlfriends out to my apartment and watch them clean my penthouse apartment.

gaius49 11-06-2011 01:11 AM

I think everyone is looking at this the wrong way. Cylinder heat is a function of the heat generated and the heat dissipated. It seems unlikely that fueling is causing any real difference in cylinder temps, so could it be heat rejection differences? I assume you have rerouted the coolant flow, and put in a properly beefy cooling system? In essence, why would those cylinders reject less heat than the others?

Faeflora 11-06-2011 08:46 AM

What about the headgasket/coolant reroute complifucked issue? Where sometimes a reroute was good and sometimes it wasn't?

gaius49 11-06-2011 10:44 AM


Originally Posted by Faeflora (Post 792578)
What about the headgasket/coolant reroute complifucked issue? Where sometimes a reroute was good and sometimes it wasn't?

Are you talking about the NB head gaskets? Where Mazda reduced the size of some of the coolant holes to balance the cooling of the head despite the imbalanced cooling of the block?

MartinezA92 11-06-2011 11:27 AM


Originally Posted by gaius49 (Post 792542)
It seems unlikely that fueling is causing any real difference in cylinder temps

I hope you're not saying this isn't possible. Maybe its not happening here, but it is a real possibility.

crashnscar 11-06-2011 02:03 PM


Originally Posted by Faeflora (Post 792578)
What about the headgasket/coolant reroute complifucked issue? Where sometimes a reroute was good and sometimes it wasn't?

94/99 gasket with a reroute, 01+ gasket without.

Faeflora 11-06-2011 06:07 PM

Right that thing. I have an 01+. With a reroute.

Mobius 11-08-2011 12:16 AM


Originally Posted by Faeflora (Post 792733)
Right that thing. I have an 01+. With a reroute.

With your 01 head gasket? If so you have impending doom. You need to put the 94-00 head gasket (BP26-10-271) onto the car or take off the reroute - your front cylinders will be seeing very little coolant.

m2cupcar 11-08-2011 08:52 AM


Originally Posted by spoolin2bars (Post 791798)
the problem i see is making the assumption that under the boost...

Good point. How about an egt log for each cylinder under a variety of conditions? :D

Faeflora 11-08-2011 09:57 AM


Originally Posted by Mobius (Post 793228)
With your 01 head gasket? If so you have impending doom. You need to put the 94-00 head gasket (BP26-10-271) onto the car or take off the reroute - your front cylinders will be seeing very little coolant.

But I have a water temp sensor in the front and back of the head and they match readings? I guess that's different than cylinder temp readings.

Please someone confirm this. I really don't want to take apart my engine.


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