Lets talk harnesses...
 

Got me a roll bar finally and it has a harness bar so now I want a harness. Don't want to be cheep on this but don't want to spend a fortune either. Its road car that sees a auto-x every month or so.

Latch or Camlock? Is the cam really worth the $?

What brands are good and what do I stay away from?

What are you guys using? Like it?

Thanks

I've had both a latch style and a camlock. If you are in and out of the car frequently (like autocross) then the only one to get in my opinion is a camlock. 6pt is better than 5pt, you're balls will appreciate it. 3" wide webbing for shoulders and lap, 2" for anti-sub.

I've got an RCI right now, and it seems to be of excellent quality.

Jay

what he said.

I have a simpson, but I can't use the nut-straps because I have a Sparco Sprint. That is going to change though.

Get pullup on the lap, pull down on the shoulders.

If your 5 point sub strap is interfering with your nuts, you're doing it wrong.


Cam vs latch link, depends on how much you flail in the car. I've seen some drivers bump their cam release wrong and unbelt themselves.

Check with your local road racers. When the date expires on their harnesses, most just buy new rather than sending them back to get recertified. They often sell the "outdated" belts to autocrossers at a substantial discount. I got mine for free. You can't use them for racing etc, but they are perfectly legal for autocross.

On a stock seat?

That would qualify as doing it wrong.

agree. Camlock for autoX to much getting in and out.

But I have a 5 point sparco harness but only use two points, aka lapbelt and use my regular seatbelt along with it.

Yup, that's why I use a 6pt. Sit on the strap and feed it between the seatback and bottom to a set of eye-bolts bolted into the floor. Acceptable in my opinion, especially for autocross. The single strap in a 5pt harness becomes a very uncomfortable thong type deal.

Just went out and took some photos

http://www.hi-upload.com/upload/uplo...42 (Large).jpg

http://www.hi-upload.com/upload/uplo...43 (Large).jpg

http://www.hi-upload.com/upload/uplo...44 (Large).jpg

Using the stock seat puts the shoulder straps at the wrong angle (twist), and gives them a chance to seperate or walk down your shoulders. Crossing the belts behind the seat is also wrong. No harness manufacturer would accept liability or warranty claim on harnesses installed as such.

Yup. Thats why I only use two of the 5 points.

Ideal? No. Acceptable during a ~60sec autocross run? Yes.

Deleted.

While that will hold you in the car better during an autocross run, it reduces the effectiveness of the factory 3 point if you actually got into a crash.

As long as you don't crash.

I must be really cheap...i usually have someone tie me with twine to my seat just before a run.....

WTF???

Ben:

Its actually not changing a thing about how my factory belt latches on. It goes on under my factory seatbelt, and is no thicker than the belt I wear on my pants. It looks like it pulls on the lock mechanism but thats just because I was lazy and just grabbed the belts out from behind my seat to take a photo.

Plus I never wear it on the street. Thats retarded.

Good point. I don't.

I mis-read your post so my reply made little sense. I removed it, but couldn't delete the post.

The factory 3 point uses the tension from your lap to hold your torso in, and the tension from your torso to tighten the lap belt.

By making the lap segment ineffective by using an additional lap belt, you reduce the effectiveness and lockup rate of the torso segment.

The belt is already at tension before I leave the line. Dont be so quick to assume. Pull tug and set before you leave the line. ;)

Plus you can also use items such as a G-lock to set the tension on the factory belt.

Between my own extensive use of auto racing safety devices, throwing my own events in the past, and having a friend die at a PCA autocross.


I'm alittle more safety aware these days.

I'd rather see someone use a G-lock and factory belts alone, than mixed harnesses and factory belts, or harnesses installed incorrectly. Once you throw your own events and are then in direct line of liability your perspective changes. You gotta assume that the guy at the like using mixed harnesses isn't using them correctly or pretensioning the torso strap on the 3 point.

I take way more chances driving my car on the road where I have to contend with Ford F-350s than I ever will in a parking lot with a decently safe course design.

Sorry for the death of your friend.

your biased opinions on the mixed harness. I know what you are saying about the hip helping set tension. But you dont you realize how much mobility I still have. The lap only keeps me from going side to side and It is set with plenty of froward travel. You need to sit in my car to see that it is really not hampering the function of the factory belt.

Although I will agree on the improperly mounted harnesses.

The only one that knows that your belt is tensioned would be you. Your club allowing that without also verifying the tension on your torso strap before every run is putting themselves in a pretty big liability situation.

I'm not going to argue that the streets are more or less dangerous. That's not a controlled environment, a closed autocross or track day is.



It's cool, he was a good guy, but shit like that changes your perspective on shit. I'm sure he wasn't planning on crashing either.

6 of one half a dozen of the other.

Its been looked at. The car has been nationally driven. It is fine.

Is it SFI or FIA rated twine? You know it's only good for 2 years and needs to be replaced after that.

If it really bothers you that much I'll bring it up with our safety stewarts once again.

Divisional are coming up.

How you have it is definately not the worst way to do it. I'm sure it's safe enough, especially since you actually take the time to tension the factory 3 point so the torso is tensioned, but the liability would probably be there should something happen, and you or your family were douchebags that sued everyone.

Interesting this thread pops up now.

My car is back at Corky's for some tuning and what-not, but also the installation of the Hard-Dog and Willians 6-pt camlock harnesses.

The last thing you want to go cheap on is safety gear...

- L

Good info all!

Did not mean to start a debate....who am I kidding MT seem to live on debates.

Can you use a 5-6 pt on a factory seat or is that another $300 I need to spend on a seat now?

You can use a harness on the factory seats. You will get better results from a racing seat.

As with all mods, you have to ask yourself: Based upon how am I planning to use the car will the mod be worth the cost?

- L

The harnesses will not be mounted correctly with a stock seat. IMO use the stock 3 poing with a G-lock, untill you're ready for a real seat.

5pt. 3" Willans camlock coming in, together with a Hard Dog bar :)
seat mounting needs some minor tweaking tho..

Only way I've seen a 5/6 point done somewhat correctly with a stock seat was someone who made cutouts + reinforcements for the shoulder belts (like a racing seat) so they would not slide off the shoulders. IIRC he also made a cutout in the seat for the anti-sub strap so it was at the right angle to prevent submarining as intended. So basically he turned his stocker into a racing seat.

There's a guy around here who runs a 5 or 6-pt harness with cutouts so the belts pass through the stock seat, although it still looked like the shoulder belt angles might be suboptimal. It's probably okay for autox, assuming the stock seat would get your head under the roll bar with your helmet on. For any track duty I'd spend the extra coin and get a proper race seat.

At my height I pretty much had to go with an aluminum seat (Kirkey) bolted to the floor for my noggin to clear the bar. I run the G-force 6-pt camlock harness. And being a new-ish track driver, I've got instructors riding along, so with equal restraint rules in mind I basically bought all my safety gear times two. Not cheap, but then again it's nothing to skimp on and not terribly expensive in the grand scheme of things.

I'm pretty happy with the G-force harnesses, especially considering the $140 price. No problems inadvertently releasing the camlock. I believe the pull-up lap belt ones are SFI rated (good for 2 years for racing) and the pull-down ones are also FIA rated and good for 5 years. I don't think anyone checks your harness date at HPDEs or autox though, so that may not matter to you. The pull-up ones will be easier to adjust while seated, but I have the pull-down ones because that's what the store had in stock when I needed to buy them. With the lap belts, once you get them set you won't have to fiddle with them very often like you do with the shoulder belts, so the pull-down aspect doesn't bother me. The shoulder belts rubbed my neck a little so I picked up the extra pads and that helped a lot.

I only run one track day event a year, for now, and my wife would never except a harness. What is the advantage of the cg-lock when you can just tug the shoulder strap and recline the seat forward?

That is very gracious of you, I hate sliding around riding in my buddies cars at the track.