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Magnaflow 12578/12579
Hi,
Does anyone know if the "super quiet" 12578/12579 Magnaflow muffler comes in a center/offset configuration? Or do I have to go to the louder 12589 for that? Is the 12579 a pain to route back to the midpipe on an NB? Cheers |
EO2K and Gesso just did exactly that, see his build thread for extensive pics.
The dual chamber muffler can't be offset for obvious reasons. The other one can. I don't think the difference would be drastic, but it's all theories because so far only 1 other (documented) person used the dual chamber design and you really can't judge sound from videos. |
Thanks Vlad. :)
The 12578 (offset/offset) version of the dual chamber lead me to believe it would be possible to have a center/offset version. I want this thing to be as quiet as possible, I was almost tempted to go 2.5" but I think that would be sacrilege with an EFR! Cheers |
NP. I think EO's setup is about as quiet as it will get. Maybe add a cat to it since those really help too
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Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 1235439)
NP. I think EO's setup is about as quiet as it will get. Maybe add a cat to it since those really help too
Timk, I don't know if you're serious about the "as quiet as possible" part, but if you REALLY are serious about the exhaust being quiet, a straight-thru muffler is Not the quietest muffler you can buy. In fact, it's going to be the loudest. But they of course flow the best. Anyone that says their exhaust is "quiet" with no cat and a straight-thru muffler is full of crap. |
Originally Posted by patsmx5
(Post 1235544)
I haven't seen his setup, but I can tell you mine is quieter. And doesn't flow as well either. And my previous setup was quieter still, though almost 30 lbs heavier.
Timk, I don't know if you're serious about the "as quiet as possible" part, but if you REALLY are serious about the exhaust being quiet, a straight-thru muffler is Not the quietest muffler you can buy. In fact, it's going to be the loudest. But they of course flow the best. Anyone that says their exhaust is "quiet" with no cat and a straight-thru muffler is full of crap. You are wrong. I'm not even gonna try to prove why, it's pointless until you actually experience/test what we're talking about. |
Hey Pat,
I should have said as quiet as possible using a straight through muffler. My previous NB had an Eaton M45 supercharger with JR headers, 2.5" 200 CPI cat, 2.5" midpipe going to a straight through Magnaflow 5x11x22" with 2.5" inlet/outlet. It was tolerable, but I would have preferred quieter. I am currently running a 3" dump pipe, 2.5" 200 CPI cat, 2.5" pipe to the stock MSM resonator and rear muffler. It's barely any louder than a stock MSM (maybe a bit deeper note if anything). I expect I probably can't match these sound levels with a 3" system, but if I can get close, then that'd be awesome. The car is still very much a street car, I like the option of being able to take hands free phone calls in it and easily talk to my kids riding shotgun when we do mountain passes. I guess even replacing the MSM muffler with the straight through 2.5" Magnaflow would increase flow considerably? Cheers |
Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 1235546)
lol.
You are wrong. I'm not even gonna try to prove why, it's pointless until you actually experience/test what we're talking about. EDIT: In 2008. https://www.miataturbo.net/general-m...pinions-21993/ EDIT2: Unless the new ones are wayy better than the older ones? Have they changed a lot? I tried one before and wasn't impressed. Are new ones a lot better? |
Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 1235546)
lol.
You are wrong. I'm not even gonna try to prove why, it's pointless until you actually experience/test what we're talking about. My C63 is reasonable, it's loud when cold but with the windows up, it's pretty quit. From the outside it's loud if you get on it though. My miata is damn loud. But I have a header, (no turbo..... which do muffle a lot) then a 300 cell cat and a dynomax baffled muffler. It's loud enough that I can leave the car idling, go inside my house, and still hear the exhaust. If you can hear your car at IDLE from inside your house, it's not quiet. :) |
Originally Posted by timk
(Post 1235551)
Hey Pat,
I should have said as quiet as possible using a straight through muffler. My previous NB had an Eaton M45 supercharger with JR headers, 2.5" 200 CPI cat, 2.5" midpipe going to a straight through Magnaflow 5x11x22" with 2.5" inlet/outlet. It was tolerable, but I would have preferred quieter. I am currently running a 3" dump pipe, 2.5" 200 CPI cat, 2.5" pipe to the stock MSM resonator and rear muffler. It's barely any louder than a stock MSM (maybe a bit deeper note if anything). I expect I probably can't match these sound levels with a 3" system, but if I can get close, then that'd be awesome. The car is still very much a street car, I like the option of being able to take hands free phone calls in it and easily talk to my kids riding shotgun when we do mountain passes. I guess even replacing the MSM muffler with the straight through 2.5" Magnaflow would increase flow considerably? Cheers If you ran a turbo, a 300+ cell cat, then a couple glasspacks, and then a real baffled muffler, it would still be considerably louder than stock. Stock is quiet. I also ran a turbo, 3 glasspacks, and a stock 99' muffler. That was in fact as quiet at stock. But it killed the HP big time. I don't recommend that unless you are okay with less than 220whp. |
Pat, for fucks sakes, the rest of the people here have a secondary muffler known as a 'turbo'.
Relax. |
No shit, I drove a turbo miata for years, I know what it's like. And 3" straight through exhaust is not "quiet" even with a turbo. When the car gives you a headache on long trips, it's not quiet.
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MagnaFlow Exhaust Products - For Trucks, Suv's, American Muscle, Diesel, & Sport Compact Vehicles
I have this, it is quiet, it is super duper quiet and straight thru. All I have, no cat, just 2.5 to 3" before the trans output. I don't have a stock to compare to, but I'm freaking close. |
Originally Posted by patsmx5
(Post 1235552)
I have literally run one of these muffler on my miata. Magnaflow straight thru muffler. So I do have actual experience with this muffler on MY miata with a turbo.
EDIT: In 2008. https://www.miataturbo.net/general-m...pinions-21993/ EDIT2: Unless the new ones are wayy better than the older ones? Have they changed a lot? I tried one before and wasn't impressed. Are new ones a lot better?
Originally Posted by patsmx5
(Post 1235553)
My stock 05 Outback is "quiet" as I can't hear the exhaust.
My C63 is reasonable, it's loud when cold but with the windows up, it's pretty quit. From the outside it's loud if you get on it though. My miata is damn loud. But I have a header, (no turbo..... which do muffle a lot) then a 300 cell cat and a dynomax baffled muffler. It's loud enough that I can leave the car idling, go inside my house, and still hear the exhaust. If you can hear your car at IDLE from inside your house, it's not quiet. :)
Originally Posted by patsmx5
(Post 1235554)
I ran a turbo, 3 glasspacks, and a magnaflow muffler. Pretty much 5 mufflers total including the turbo. It was wayyy louder than stock. You're not going to build a 3" system that's as quiet as stock. Then I put a real muffler on the car, that's baffled, and it was much quieter than the magnaflow, but still it's not as quiet as stock. So yeah, you're not going to build a "quiet" 3" exhaust unless you put 6 or 7 mufflers in there, and there is literally no room for them.
If you ran a turbo, a 300+ cell cat, then a couple glasspacks, and then a real baffled muffler, it would still be considerably louder than stock. Stock is quiet. I also ran a turbo, 3 glasspacks, and a stock 99' muffler. That was in fact as quiet at stock. But it killed the HP big time. I don't recommend that unless you are okay with less than 220whp. I have tried them, they don't do nearly anything. the key is not length of resonator, but girth (that's what she said? lol). You can have the whole exhaust out of glasspacks, and it still won't be nearly as quiet as one of these HUGE magna's with offset angles or dual chambered (not in the "typical" way either, look up it's construction). Seriously though, if you haven't ran the exact models we're talking about, you simply don't know what we're talking about. I've ran one of these big boys in 2.5 and 3 configuations, both were significantly quieter than even a RS3 exhaust mated to a OEM header+OEM ginormous CAT on an NB. I am crazy about quietness. Trust me when I say: if there was a quieter setup that was as good flowing as this, I'd already have tried it. So far the only way to make this 3" setup quieter is with a spring loaded flapper valve like TurboTim and I think JasonCSBB run. Everything else is louder |
Originally Posted by patsmx5
(Post 267214)
Ok so I bought a Magnaflow muffler for my new exhaust system. It's a 3" in/out center in/out. Part number 12249. Muffler case measures 5x8x18 oval 24" overall. Looks high quality and is all stainless steel.
5x11x22 oval overall 28" My car running a magnaflow 12578 with a cat is downright quiet and mellow. You hear the engine at idle more than you hear the exhaust. |
Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 1235599)
That's not even close to the one we're talking about. The one you ran I also ran back in like 09, it's like half the size and way louder.
Yeah, that's LOUD! Mine isn't even half that loud. You can't even hear it more than 20' away. glasspacks suck. They really are not "mufflers" becuase they don't actually muffle anything. they simply take away the rasp. they are resonators I have tried them, they don't do nearly anything. the key is not length of resonator, but girth (that's what she said? lol). You can have the whole exhaust out of glasspacks, and it still won't be nearly as quiet as one of these HUGE magna's with offset angles or dual chambered (not in the "typical" way either, look up it's construction). Seriously though, if you haven't ran the exact models we're talking about, you simply don't know what we're talking about. I've ran one of these big boys in 2.5 and 3 configuations, both were significantly quieter than even a RS3 exhaust mated to a OEM header+OEM ginormous CAT on an NB. I am crazy about quietness. Trust me when I say: if there was a quieter setup that was as good flowing as this, I'd already have tried it. So far the only way to make this 3" setup quieter is with a spring loaded flapper valve like TurboTim and I think JasonCSBB run. Everything else is louder Also funny you mentioned spring loaded flapper valves, I'm thinking about installing one on my car actually. |
Originally Posted by patsmx5
(Post 1235680)
Well sounds like the new ones are different. Sweet, when I get some spare $$$ I'll have to try one for myself.
Also funny you mentioned spring loaded flapper valves, I'm thinking about installing one on my car actually. |
What's a Magnaflow "dual chamber"?
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<p>Hey Jason, speaking of quite mufflers, how did your dynomax vt flapper valve hold up? I was reading through some old threads and saw you and others were worried about the spring going and/or it making noise flapping closed.</p>
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Originally Posted by JasonC SBB
(Post 1235742)
What's a Magnaflow "dual chamber"?
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1432864293 |
I'd call it "dual flow path" before I'd call it "dual chamber". The pic 18psi posted above is the muffler that I've got on my car, but its an 12579/14579
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Here's a quick clip of my exhaust, this is the single path one
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Seems pretty quiet to me, thanks deezums!
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Doesn't seem very straight through.
Have a top, diagrammatic view? The spring loaded flapper has been holding up fine. |
See thread "bro's up on muff" for discussion and such.
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I don't have any pictures, so I drew this one. It is single chamber 3" perforated stainless the whole way thru, with two pie cuts like pictured.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1432925709 There are pics in this glorious thread https://www.miataturbo.net/diy-turbo...op-muff-67263/ |
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Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 1235933)
See thread "bro's up on muff" for discussion and such.
EDIT: Bringing the Lol's https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1432928976 |
<p>Yeah I saw that and laughed too. Google's automated copyright shit is getting scary. inb4 skynet</p>
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Originally Posted by 18psi
(Post 1235762)
MagnaFlow Exhaust Products - For Trucks, Suv's, American Muscle, Diesel, & Sport Compact Vehicles The only thing that might be described as "dual flow" is their "XL" series, which, isn't straight through: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1432938119 Or is your muffler one of these single-in/dual-out?: http://images.magnaflow.com/02product/parts/12590.jpg Your photo suggests it has an expansion chamber, instead of a 'Y' pipe inside. ??? |
18psi should have labeled his photo as a 12579 since that's what it actually is. It's 3" inlet, two straight-through 2.5" centers, and a 3" outlet. Hence "dual flow"
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https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1432957277
Anything less would be uncivilized. I have a 1x579 |
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Subbed to this thread, i have this 3" MAG 13219 universal XL performance, center inlet offset outlet
I really wanted a quiet setup so i chose a baffled muffler and used a vibrant resonator that is installed where the cat would be, but the system still drons at 3700 rpm and it gets old on the hwy and now it rattles at 3k pretty bad. So i am looking for a new muffler now https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1432958041 |
a) 18psi's muff anus pic above doesn't resemble your 3rd drawing... it looks like there's an expansion chamber. I can see what appears to be the ends of 2 perforated pipes b) I couldn't find a description of it on Magnaflow's website ??? |
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I'm somewhat at a loss here, I'm not sure what else I can do to try to convince you.
In the above drawing pretty much everything inside the rectangular muffler body is made of 3" perf tube, other than the dual one that has twin 2.5" tubes. The thing you keep referring to as an "expansion chamber" is a Y section made of 2 pieces of roughly stamped steel. Its not a perfect Y but it does split the 3" flow into the 2.5" tubes, then recombines them at the other end. At no point does it open into the body of the muffler. I mean, I actually own that muffler. If I had it here I'd be happy to take more pics for you but its at a friends place up near SF at the moment. In fact, it looks almost exactly like this thing inside the muffler: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1432960569 http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mpe-10778 And that's funny, because not only is it also made by Magnaflow, I also own that part as well, its part of the exhaust on my truck ;) |
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Anyone have any idea how much horsepowers are lost with the 12578? My wife and I just took a trip to the Mitty in the Miata, Va. to Ga. We could'nt hear the radio, so we cut it off. The drone gave me a headache after a while. Would lie to fix that without loosing my horsee's.
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Dag, I meant the 12579.
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Originally Posted by JasonC SBB
(Post 1236023)
b) I couldn't find a description of it on Magnaflow's website
??? |
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Originally Posted by lvw
(Post 1236043)
Dag, I meant the 12579.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1433000925 This image is interesting. You can see where the inside edge of the perforated internal tube "disrupts" the flow into the side tubes. On my 1x579 muffler there was one end that looked like the above pic, and the other end was actually much better. It may just be manufacturing tolerance (or lack thereof) or simply luck of the draw. My muffler is oriented so that the "better" side is the "inlet" side. I'd like to think that'll help. I considered getting in there with some sort of tool and cutting down those edges but its all stainless. It looked like it was going to be a bitch to do so I moved on to other things. |
Originally Posted by lvw
(Post 1236042)
Anyone have any idea how much horsepowers are lost with the 12578? My wife and I just took a trip to the Mitty in the Miata, Va. to Ga. We could'nt hear the radio, so we cut it off. The drone gave me a headache after a while. Would lie to fix that without loosing my horsee's.
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Originally Posted by Savington
(Post 1236075)
??? indeed, dude. I literally posted a link to Magnaflow's product page for the exact muffler you're talking about. :party:
Originally Posted by EO2K
(Post 1236027)
In fact, it looks almost exactly like this thing inside the muffler:
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1432960569 http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mpe-10778 And that's funny, because not only is it also made by Magnaflow, I also own that part as well, its part of the exhaust on my truck ;) While much better than a simple expansion chamber, the flat instead of a 'V' will introduce some turbulence. It would be interesting to measure the actual muffler pressure loss. I measured mine some time ago, (3" straight through), and it was on the order of 1 psi including the bends before and after the muff, when the whole system including cat and downpipe was dropping ~4. |
:bigtu:
If I can figure out some way to measure and log it, I'll try to do so. I know Ian asked as well over in his build thread. |
That was my concern in the muff thread too, and then brainesack berated me for it, and since I'm too lazy to test this sorta stuff I just kinda didn't care.
In theory the noise redux should be significant, no idea about turbulence because it's likely not as significant as the sweet sweet quietness :D |
I would speculate that it might effect the very top end, but under 5k worth of flow its probably negligible.
Priorities for me are sound reduction, then flow. In that order. |
Originally Posted by EO2K
(Post 1236484)
:bigtu:
If I can figure out some way to measure and log it, I'll try to do so. I know Ian asked as well over in his build thread. --Ian |
Once its up and running we can definitely make that happen. I know we have the same MS3-Basic so adding that stuff should be easy, now that you've figure out how to do it of course ;)
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Make sure to lube your probe before you stick it in his hole
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Originally Posted by EO2K
(Post 1236520)
Priorities for me are sound reduction, then flow. In that order.
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Well don't get me wrong, flow is still super important. If I didn't care about flow at all there would be a louvered resonator in there along with a chambered muffler. I see the 1x579 series as a very minor compromise in the flow vs sound debate. It was a minor compromise I was willing to make, and I'm glad to provide data once its up and running.
In fact, if someone is willing to loan us a 1x578 or 1x589 series muffler, or if I can convince Gesso to buy one for his project, we can splice it into my exhaust and do some legitimate "all things being equal" back-to-back testing with Cordus' sensor setup. That'll really give us solid data. |
Originally Posted by EO2K
(Post 1236568)
In fact, if someone is willing to loan us a 1x578 or 1x589 series muffler, or if I can convince Gesso to buy one for his project, we can splice it into my exhaust and do some legitimate "all things being equal" back-to-back testing with Cordus' sensor setup. That'll really give us solid data.
--Ian |
I like this plan. I'll add some mild bungs to my shopping list, and maybe an additional stainless one for the downpipe.
Out of curiosity, where would you recommend putting them/where exactly are the ones located in your FM? |
Originally Posted by EO2K
(Post 1236604)
I like this plan. I'll add some mild bungs to my shopping list, and maybe an additional stainless one for the downpipe.
Out of curiosity, where would you recommend putting them/where exactly are the ones located in your FM? http://www.codrus.com/miata/fm2r/fm-exhaust.jpg Actually, now that I look at the photo, I'm not sure there *is* one in the midpipe after all. The downpipe ones are obvious in the photo, and the post-cat one is right under the exhaust hangar for the midpipe in the photo. For pressure sensing between the cat and the muffler, I don't really think it matters all that much, the pressure should be pretty constant all the way along the pipe. If you're trying to measure turbine performance, I think it's better to have them right before and after the turbine itself. --Ian |
Pre-turbine is going to be a problem for me. There really is no convenient place to put on in my manifold, plus its coated, or I could drill and tap a hole in the EFRs turbine housing. I'm not sure I'm crazy about either TBH. Someplace in the downpipe is do-able as is before the first resonator. We'll figure something out. ;)
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Any reports back on which is quietest and still good power/spool.
About to pull trigger 12578 or 12579 or 12589? I want quietest without much power spool sacrifice ( That not to much to ask for right LOL) |
yes
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I ended up with the 12589 because my installer requested it. More room to make the bend past the differential.I am completely satisfied with the sound level though, we made another trip to MATG. No headache and still feels like I have my power.Nice roar when I get on it too.
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