Millenia S Supercharger Going in the Miata!!!
 

Hey Guys. I'm new to this forum. I usually hang around miata.net, but I've realized that this is probably a better place to talk power, as most over there are narow minded irresponsible children. Anyway...

I'm putting a millenia supercharger on my 99 NB. I got the bracket that bolts the blower to the exhaust manifold made and installed on the vehicle. I've decided to run the blower unthrottled. This will increase throttle response, reduce intake air temps, and reduce the temps of the blower.

The blower has a 4" diameter 8 rib pulley on it. The millenia it came off of had a 6" crank pulley. I'm going to make a 8" pulley to go on the crank which would make for a 2:1 ratio. I was thinking of making it a 9", but I'm not sure. I'm worried I may be spinning it too fast. If I can, I'll go with a 9". I'm not sure what the things rated at.

It's a 1 Liter/ 61 Cubic Inch Lysholm Twin Screw with oil supply and return lines. If I knew it was rated at 16K, I could use the 9" pulley for a 2.25:1 ratio blower spinning 15.75K RPM's@the motors 7KRPM's.

I'm really wanting to go all out on this. MS II, WI, No intercooler for now, Supra Injectors, Walbrow 255 or just build another fuel system to replace the car's original. I hoping I can hit 250-300 WHP before I hit the nitrous.

I got some pictures but I can't figure out how to post them.

Here's a link to the thread on this at miata.net: http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=237266

Welcome to the forum that is one awesome build. I love watching DIY setup's like this. iweasel on the forum was doing something similar at one time, not sure what the blower was from though.
Why the walbro 255 though, many on the forum use the walbro 190 lph because the 255 is overkill. Truthfully with the right injectors and MS you shouldn't even need the FP in your '99.

What are you going to use for a tach input for MSII, 94-97 CAS or are you going to use Arga's circuit to make it work?

I figured I needed the 255. I could probably use the 190 I suppose. What's "FP"?

I'm not sure how I'm going to do the ignition. I was originally planning to do MSII with Ford EDIS-4. Now, I'm told it's possible to utilize the 99's pickup, but you have to do something and it's highly untested blah, blah, blah. So, I'm very uncertain. Would a CAS from a 94-97 work? I was told that MSII couldn't read that signal, but that could have changed.
What's Arga's circuit?

FP meant fuelpump, sorry for the acronym.
Don't use EDIS, it's not worth it. Truthfully i don't know why you want to go MSII. The only reason I would go MSII is so that I could run sequential injection and sequential ignition(if it's even possible, i haven't researched it.) I run MSI with a 94-97 CAS in my '99 using the stock coils with plans to run a set of Toyota COPs later on if my '99 fail me under high boost.

Arga was the first guy I know on the forum to run MSII in a miata, especially in a NB. He has some sort of circuit that inverts the miata's output I think but recently he might have figured something else out to make it so you don't have to do anything special because they changed the code to read it right or something. Now this is all be spewing out info from what I read but i'll try to find the link and to his recent writeup for you. He isn't running MSII-E, just regular MSII.

https://www.miataturbo.net/megasquirt-18/ms2e-s19-file-99-00-alpha-12392/
That thread is by him and has the link to his current MSII action.

I was thinking about the EDIS-4 since I have to make a new pulley to go on the crank, I could integrate the 36-1 wheel into the pulley while I'm machining it. If someone's got a way to utilize the factory ignition and let MS II control it, that's what I'll do. Yea, I had a debat on M.net about MS I vs. MS II and I decided that I would rather have MS II.

For the resolution or what? I won't argue about it. MSI is easy and it works fine for my usage. Though in the future when MSII has a few more functions like MSnSE i would like to run it for sequential injection/ignition and the higher resolution.

Yea, for the resolution. I figure if it's in any way going to help it run a little bit smoother/better it's worth it. For unknown reasons, I have the miata that runs lean. I made the situation worse by raising the rev limiter. Then I did a lot of head work to get it flowing and now it's running even leaner! I can actually turn off the nitrous bottle, turn on the nitrous system to come on at 10% using my controller, and add only fuel and it really helps.

I was set on MS I when I saw all the cool little features it has to play with, but I think I would rather get MS II and wait for new features for it. The more that buy MS II, the sooner things will be developed for it.

Sounds like a plan to me. Maybe Arga's stuff will help you. Become a member of that forum and download that MSQ to make sure you have it in the future.

What forum do I become a member of? What's MSQ-MegaSquirt...?

.msq is the filetype for Megasquirt when using Megatune.

I was saying you should go to that link i posted, check out that thread of Arga's. Then become a member of that forum because when you're a member you can see the files they have uploaded with the ability to download his recent .msq.

diyautotune.com is your place to get all your megasquirt products, I don't mind plugging them because they offer awesome service and they help ALOT on the forum and in the miata community in general.

Ah, si. Do you know how to post pictures on here? On M.net, you can upload them.

The best way is to get a free photobucket.com account and then insert the "[img]" tags here. That way they show up as a picture instead of a lame link.

Otherwise in order to just upload them you have to be a supporting member. It's around 3.50 a month to do that. I still prefer the photobucket method though, it works really well and is free.

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You don't even need the 190. The stock pump will do 300rwhp.

Really? I've always been told it won't, but I'm all ears for not wasting money on parts I don't really need.

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Note the proportioning valve has been moved to the other side of the maste cylinder. That was fun!
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Yes for 300 but if you run your spray the extra 100 then the stock pump is gonna be crying, and also i dunno how your aux pump is setup wether it picks up seperate from the main pump or what but that would help us understand it as well. As always i love your enginuity and if you wanna solder anything or run some direct port nos lines for my car lemme know. :D

The only reason people swap their pumps out on here is because they have an older car and the pump is tired.
That NOS is badass, i don't know anything about nitrous, is that a dry or wet shot?

Lame plug:

You can buy my MSII CPU for $60 shipped. I was attempting to make it work with the 1.6 cas but With the COP's I couldn't get it to run right in the time I had. Now that school is in session I don't have the time to mess on the car and burn out more COP's since its my DD. The new cost for the CPU is $90+shipping.

The nitroius is direct port wet shot, 1 fogger for each cylinder. I installed a seperate fuel system for the nitrous. I installed a 3/8's pickup tube into the sending unit, a 300 Liter pump, dual parallel fuel filters, 3/8 hard fuel line to the solenoid, and all new relay's and wiring. The two systems only share the fuel tank.
It's and Edelbrock Performer kit rated at 50-180 HP. I have the 100 shot jets in it right now, but I'm tempted to put in the 140's. It has all stainless hard lines and the new E2 Stainless foggers as well. Pro solenoids too. I also have a Progressive controller and a 2-way MSD Digital adjustable Window Switch. The controller and Window Switch are in the glove compartment, the arming switch is in the ashtray, the Wide open throttle switch is under the gas pedal (out of site), the armed light is resessed into the air vent. Fuel pump is bolted to the front of the drivers side rear fender. Foggers are under the intake manifold out of site.

The car's original fuel system is stock, but It has a new OEM Pump.

Hey neogenesis2004, I was looking at some pics of your head build. Looks nice. I did a lot of headwork on my 99. Just though I would say You might want to unshroud the valves a little more. I did mine 20% diameter of exhaust valves, 25% diameter of the intakes. Yours looked more like 10%.

It is not possible to deshroud them any further. They are already at the limit of my 80mm cometic hg. I didn't take any before pics, but had I you would see that they are extensively deshrouded. I have more pics on the camera that I havent uploaded yet.

I'm making a drawing on how I did mine. You can go more where the gasket dosn't seal. I really wish I had taken pictures of it while I had it off.

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You don't want the gasket sticking into the combustion chamber at all.

It would not be sticking in the combustion chambers. The doted line is where the head gasket seals. The combustion chambers could technically be unshrouded all the way to the dotted lines, assuming it didn't hit a water passage or something, but that would not be benificial.

Does anyone know what RPM my 1 Liter Lysholm is rated at? Anyone know of a place to find out?

take the 300 lph pump and throw it in the mix of the system if nothing else given what you have shown me here you should be fine.

Huh? FWIW, the Fuel Pump for the nitrous is rated at 300L@8PSI. I unhooked the hose from the solenoid to put some gas in a gascan for my lawn mower a while back. I turned the pump on for, I timed it, 15 seconds, and I had half filled a 1 gallon gas can. :eek5:

oh damn then that won't help alot. You know that once you hit 8 psi of manifold pressure the FP will need to turn 16 psi of line pressure to be effective right? I was hoping they used a high pressure pump. For the most part i think the stock fpr in the tank will need to be modified as it is one of the first choke points of your system. Regardless i think using the NOS fuel system to supplement the stock system is a good idea but since it is only a low pressure pump that solution wont last very long. Also when are you gonna step up to a bad ass clutch to handle all that hp :D

Damn it, Richard, your not as slap fuckin retarded as everyone says...
I didn't even think about boost affecting the fuel pressure. Yea, When I bought that pump, I wasn't thinking about going FI. Well, time for a new plan...

Summit racing has a house brand fuel pump, 280 LPH@65PSI for 210.

Perhaps I'll just pick up a 255HP Walbro in tank pump for 100, and remove the in tank FPR. Then tap it into my existing 3/8 hard fuel lines and route it to the engine. There, I'll regulate the pressure and have a guage showing fuel pressure inline between the regulator and the fuel rail. The regulator will have a return, so I'll have to run a return line to the tank. Could also utilize the factory fuel supply line for my new return.


With this setup, I could use the 255HP to supply fuel to the motor and the nitrous system, Correct?

I could also remove my 300L pump that only makes 8PSI and sell it to help offset the cost of the new components. I could also sell my Holley Low pressure Fuel Pressure regulator.

Well, thanks Richard. You are right and I didn't even think about that.

Bad ass clutch? I was planning on replacing it a week after I finished installing my nitrous, so I gave it hell for like 3 months, with the intent of replacing it. 5 bottles later, It's made 10+ launches at the 1/8 mile, several NICE burnouts, and 10K miles since the nitrous, and it's still holding strong. It does shudder terribly once in a while though, usually the day after tracking it. Im like that crazy guy Magna, "why fix [shity ass wiring] if it's not broke! Nuf Sad!"

Edit

Regulator: Mallory high flow regulator 3/8 in and out adjustable from 30-100 PSI, 1 inlet, 3 outlets. 100 dollars :http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

Walbrow 255LPH HP In tank Fuel pump: 95 dollars: http://shopping.lightningmotorsports..._342-p-21.html

In car Fuel Pressure Guage 2 1/16 Summit Racing 0-100 PSI, 18 dollars: http://store.summitracing.com/partde...5&autoview=sku

Very true Pat i have to ask how you will deal with the difference your Nos system sees can you throtle it back at the selonoid or do you need a new fuel fogger. The 255 lph pump at the stockish pressures ie sub 70 psi will flow plenty for your power gaols and is a good idea. + it is only 100$ from lightning motorsports. I migth not be dumb like they say but i do things different some see that as good others see it as a point of ridicule, i wouldn't change it for the world though :D cheers pat.

I will have to pull the intake manifold and change the fuel jets in the foggers. It's a bitch, so it won't happen till I have the new fuel system up and running at the proper pressure. Then I'll have to calculate what jets I need for my [100,120,140, or more] shot and buy them. Then, pull the intake and replace the jets. The jets go into the foggers and then you screw on the line that go the the foggers and that's what holds the jet in. Those jets are like 4.50 each!

using the old jets would theretically be good for a 250 shot though :eek: j/k :rofl:

Yea, right, a 250 shot is what my motor needs.......

:BSmeter:

:nxsmile::yippee::nuts::hahano::werd: :ughug: :pitlab: :x:

That is sick!

Has anyone made 300 whp on a stock bottom end? I'm going to have the Devil's Own progressive water injection for cooling, no intercooler, MS II controlling fuel and spark. I believe I need to do a coolant reroute but I'm not sure what needs to be done. Assuming a good tune around 12.5:1 AFR, timming maps are correct, would it hold up to 300? What normally fails? I could see accelerated wear from the extra power, but normally I hear about cylinder 4 either has very low compression or a hole in the piston from XXXX.

Thanks. What's funny is you can't even see them since their under the intake. Look at the other pics of the engine. If you look carefully, you can see a braided line running against the passenger side firewall.

Acelerated wear you are right given good tunning the setup should last 15 or so K miles or until the rings stop wanting to seal. A dual feed fuel rail will help eliminate the #4 lean problem.

So, the rings stop wanting to seal? Is it from heat? Or is it from the pistons. Perhaps the area on the piston where the rings press against is being worn out because of the extras stress being applied. This is usually what causes a loss in compression when running nitrous. It's not really the rings fault, it's the pistons. Forged pistons have more strength in this critical area and hold up better.

I suppose if I had a better set of rods and new forged pistons, and maybe oil pump gears, I the bottom end would be up to the task.

If that's what goes, what it

Yep you got it given some premo rings forged pistons/rods and billet oil pump gears you will never make to much hp for the motor. Given a good tune. But as i said before the motor should last 15 or so K at 300 i would call that stable.

I hear what your saying Richard, but for some reason my shit dosn't last as long as most people's. Don't know why. I suppose it could possibly have something to do with my driving habits. I drive around 15K a year, so if it lasted that lone, I guess I'd be pretty happy and wouldn't mind spending the money to rebuild it better. How long would it take 300 + a 100 shot for special ocassions?

IF you drive as hard as i do then you could most likely wear it out in 10-12K you will most likely go through several 5 speeds at that power level as well. They don't like more than 250 lb/ft. Also while it is down if it does go down a cryo treatment and rx7 lsd conversion would be a good investment. The ring and pinions are pretty strong for most apps but torsens dont like alot of torque either. And rx7 lsds can be had for aroun 200$ used or rebuilt.

There's an idea... I'll buy me another 5 speed and send the entire assembled unit to have it cryo treated. Well, that probably wouldn't work, but having the gears and what not inside the tranny cryoed would definately help.

Well if the gear strenght was the issue it would but it is not case flex pwns us not gear fragility. For instances of that look at the 1.6 dif.

But, FM sells a gear set to upgrade the 5 speeds, not a new case?

Its the gear design that makes them break, thats why quaife makes a gear set. I would email quaife about it if you want more factual information about why the trans shreds.

hey neogenesis2004, did you understand that drawing I made? That picture is a rough drawing of how i did my head when I unshrouded the valves. I was saying the dotted line is where the head gasket would seal, since it's a circle. Just wondering what you think.

You didnt ever take a picture of the chamber did you? The drawing looks good though, There is a miata head something like that on replika maschinen's gallery. When I was talking about the gasket I was refering to my head and how you said I should have deshrouded my valves more. If I did it anymore my hg lip would be sticking into the cylinder (MAJOR hot spot and gasket damage). Most of the deshrouding you see there is what the machine shop had to do to do the 5 angle valve job. I'd say a good 5mm was taken from the "corner" of the chamber. It comes basically to the edge of the hg.

Nope, no pics at all. I blew a head gasket 3 days before I had to drive my car 260 miles to start college. I wanted to do a lot of head work to it while I had it off. I worked hard and long, and when it was done, it went right back on the car. I'm tempted to pull the damn thing just to take some pics.

Yea, my book I got suggest unshroud 20% for exhaust valves, 25% for intakes. More if the motor will be FI. I did mine by those numbers above. I'm putting a supercharger on, so next time the head comes off, I will probably go 25% on exhaust and around 30 or so on the intakes. Maybe 30 exhaust 35 intakes. Since it's FI, the compression lost isn't as critical. I will absolutely take pics if next time it comes off.