NB: Replacement battery for winter?
Hello everyone - I was wondering if you guys could give me some feedback. In the awfully chilly weather we've been having recently ( -23C = -9 F), my car has decided it doesn't really like starting. The battery age is unknown, however it is NOT oem. It was replaced by the previous owner.
I was thinking of either an East Penn 8AMU1R or an Optima Redtop. However, it seems over the past few years miata-forums have begun to dislike optimas - is this still the case? The East Penn 8AMU1R is apparently a clone of the fabled Westco battery- but is easily available in Canada. Should I just go for the 8AMU1R - or have any new batteries popped up recently? Thanks fellas |
I've heard it said, but have no proof, that East Penn is actully the OEM of the battery labeled and sold by Westco.
I've got one (private labeled as something else) in my '04. It's about six months old, and while it hasn't left me stranded yet, the car is definitely not happy about starting when it's 0°F. I've thought about looking into whether there's an Optima which will physically fit into the hole on an NB, haven't actually done anything about it yet. |
A lot of people stopped backing Optima batteries when they moved to China.
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FWIW - Last year I installed a second battery into my car after experiencing some "I don't want to start" mornings. Basically, I took out the cubby tray on the other side of the trunk and fitted a motorcycle battery there. Then I wired in a WirthCo "Battery Doctor" (which is installed between the seats in the cabin.
Functionally, the batteries are wired in parallel and the WirthCo keeps the batteries isolated when there's no current from the alternator. During normal summer starts, only the "main" battery is used to crank the motor. When the alternator starts charging, both batteries are charged. In the winter - or whenever the "main" battery isn't up to the task, I can push a button on the WirthCo and - voila - the "secondary" battery is in-play, providing the extra oomph to get the motor cranking. Once the engine starts, and the alternator kicks in, the system goes back into charge mode. So far, it's made ALL the difference - and it gets me some strange looks when the trunk is opened up for inspection during autocrosses and track days. |
My last 2 non-miata yellowtops didn't last much longer than the manufacturer warranty (3 years). I've had to replace 2 regular lead acid batteries this year and they were both 7 years old (mild climate). I'll never buy another optima.
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I've had an Optima Red Top in my Subaru coming on two years now , it cranked that over fine the other morning when I'd forgotten to plug the block heater in . It's been hovering around -20*c here. The real answer is to move to a warmer climate me thinks. I'm done with winter.....I haven't had much luck with Wescos or their clones and I don't winter drive my Miata . My plan is to go Lith/Iron Phosphate next time around.
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I have a super cheap offbrand battery that it at least 5 years old and has no problems starting my car in the winter.
I wouldn't overpay for an expensive one, personally. Unless of course you plan on doing a ton of starting. Mine typically only starts my car 3 or 4 times a day. Sometimes only twice. |
I have had an OEM branded Mazda battery in my car for 11 years now. It has never given me a problem even after sitting untouched and unstarted for over a year at a time, some times. It is a wet-cell but it is the best battery I have ever had in one of my vehicles.
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The motorcycle battery idea seems like a good one. And unless you have parasitic drain issues, you shouldn't even need the isolator.
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I'm pretty sure I know a guy who manufactures those batteries ;)
Check Canadian tire. |
Originally Posted by thirdgen
(Post 1381992)
I'm pretty sure I know a guy who manufactures those batteries ;)
Check Canadian tire.
Originally Posted by rwyatt365
(Post 1381977)
FWIW - Last year I installed a second battery into my car after experiencing some "I don't want to start" mornings. Basically, I took out the cubby tray on the other side of the trunk and fitted a motorcycle battery there. Then I wired in a WirthCo "Battery Doctor" (which is installed between the seats in the cabin.
Functionally, the batteries are wired in parallel and the WirthCo keeps the batteries isolated when there's no current from the alternator. During normal summer starts, only the "main" battery is used to crank the motor. When the alternator starts charging, both batteries are charged. In the winter - or whenever the "main" battery isn't up to the task, I can push a button on the WirthCo and - voila - the "secondary" battery is in-play, providing the extra oomph to get the motor cranking. Once the engine starts, and the alternator kicks in, the system goes back into charge mode. So far, it's made ALL the difference - and it gets me some strange looks when the trunk is opened up for inspection during autocrosses and track days. |
Thanks everyone- another question, would you stick with AGM or go with regular wet cell? I'm fairly certain my dealer stocks a wet cell only, as does Canadian tire. NAPA carries the East Penn AGM, however it is 225$ CAD
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EPM AGM...don't get a regular flooded cell.
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Originally Posted by ridethecliche
(Post 1382007)
I'm so confused why you'd need to do this. You're in Atlanta!
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Originally Posted by Joe Perez
(Post 1381986)
The motorcycle battery idea seems like a good one. And unless you have parasitic drain issues, you shouldn't even need the isolator.
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Originally Posted by thirdgen
(Post 1382098)
EPM AGM...don't get a regular flooded cell.
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I've worked with East Penn and can say that their quality control is run by competent people. This means that the product they make is likely the product they intend to make. I can't tell from experience if their designs are good or bad. But my general experience is that companies that hire good people in one area usually also hire good people in others.
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Just a little update with my battery situation. When I removed the battery i relized it was in fact a Westco clone - although a bit of a low performing one. I discovered the tray underneath was broken as well- fixed it with some duct tape and cleaned some sludge (?) from previous owner.
I also started to top the battery off with my battery tender jr whenever possible @ home base ( :rofl:) - and through magic it seems to be working much better now (even when I don't top it off with the tender). Today the car started happily @ -16 C = 3.2F with no drama. (no charging with tender in past few days) It wasn't able to do that a few weeks ago. I'll keep the Westo going now - with occasional home base assistance as long as I can. |
And my update:
Just after these posts, my battery died. So I ordered the one shown in post #16. Very satisfied. This thread came at an serendipitous time. |
Originally Posted by TheCanadian
(Post 1391731)
When I removed the battery i relized it was in fact a Westco clone
My one experience with a Westco-brand battery was not remarkable. After three years of service mostly in extremely moderate San Diego, it left me stranded one winter night in south Florida (it was down into the 40s), on a car whose alternator was quite healthy. |
I've had a Westco and the clone from Napa, and wasn't very impressed with either for the price. After the Westco failed within two years (removed in winter, driven <4,000 miles/year) I wrote to them about the issue, and their response was that the average life of these batteries was 2-3 years. They wouldn't offer me so much as a discount on a new battery. The Napa has lasted longer so far, comes with a longer warranty, but I can no longer get it to hold more than about 12.2V. I paid less than $225 for it, but still don't think it was worth the money.
My next battery I think will be a wet cell, because these AGMs cost more and don't seem to offer any performance benefit. |
Originally Posted by TalkingPie
(Post 1391789)
My next battery I think will be a wet cell, because these AGMs cost more and don't seem to offer any performance benefit.
In the mean time, I will invent a battery which consists of a small rotating flywheel of infinite mass whose outer edge travels at 0.9c, suspended by a frictionless bearing, in a total vacuum. It will last forever and start every engine in the world simultaneously, but the first hard corner you take will rip the car in half (and also create a supermassive black hole which destroys all of time and space.) |
Originally Posted by Joe Perez
(Post 1391793)
In the mean time, I will invent a battery which consists of a small rotating flywheel of infinite mass whose outer edge travels at 0.9c, suspended by a frictionless bearing, in a total vacuum. It will last forever and start every engine in the world simultaneously, but the first hard corner you take will rip the car in half (and also create a supermassive black hole which destroys all of time and space.)
Like the new Meme. |
Originally Posted by Joe Perez
(Post 1391769)
Meaning, it's a Westco clone of the OEM, or a clone of a Westo? Pics?
My one experience with a Westco-brand battery was not remarkable. After three years of service mostly in extremely moderate San Diego, it left me stranded one winter night in south Florida (it was down into the 40s), on a car whose alternator was quite healthy. I believe it is a clone of the westco. It looks the same as the westco with a different label, same CCA, and the same part number (8AMU1R) EDIT: It us underneath the Eastp Penn umbrella. The brand is called Pow-R Surge. Naturally I thought this was random el cheapo battery. It was after I removed it I noticed it looked like the Westco, has the same labeling (8AMU1R), and that East Penn Canada has the Pow-R Surge brand batteries on their website. |
Originally Posted by Joe Perez
(Post 1391793)
In terms of "performance benefit," the only real advantage to an AGM battery is that, since it's located in the trunk, it doesn't contain a bunch of free electrolyte which can slosh around and eventually find its way down to the metal surface of the body, thence causing corrosion.
However, in my experience the AGMs on offer have definite drawbacks to good flooded batteries - namely availability, price, and as it turns out, durability and cranking performance. If I could buy a new OEM-spec Panasonic, I'd jump on that, but I'm talking about what I've found to be available. In the meantime, I've found that sealed flooded-cell batteries don't generally leak or outgas excessive amounts, and even if they did, our cars have a handy-dandy little venting system to keep these gases from festering inside the trunk, and live in a plastic tray which offers some protection from small amounts of acid getting to the tasty, tasty unibody. Even Mazda sells a flooded-cell as the OEM replacement, so I've concluded that a good flooded-cell battery may well serve my needs better than the mediocre AGM ones on offer. |
I ended up just tossing an Autocraft silver in mine. It even came with new vent tubes. Been working like a charm so far. I let the car sit for 5 weeks outside and then moved it in and out of the garage about 6 or 7 times, then tossed it on the battery tender to charge it back up. And starting my piss poor tune is not easy or quick, 10-30s of cranking depending on temp. (I am slowly getting the tune sorted out, down to 5s or so now).
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Am I the only one here who just goes to Advance Auto and gets whatever they have in stock for the miata and use the online coupons to get 30% off?
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Originally Posted by shuiend
(Post 1391874)
Am I the only one here who just goes to Advance Auto and gets whatever they have in stock for the miata and use the online coupons to get 30% off?
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I go to the local Interstate battery place, and ask for "blems". If they have them, it's about 40% off list. If not, they'll call me when one comes in. I've never had to wait long.
On top of that, my company gets all it's batteries through them, so I get an additional discount. 10%, I think. |
i dont get the point of all the battery hoopla. no battery in the right size has enough cca to really last any long period of time. i think most come in at 320cca. just buy w/e has enough warranty that youll get a discount when its in its replacement range. interstate is really good about that
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Originally Posted by rnepmc
(Post 1392811)
i dont get the point of all the battery hoopla. no battery in the right size has enough cca to really last any long period of time. i think most come in at 320cca. just buy w/e has enough warranty that youll get a discount when its in its replacement range. interstate is really good about that
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