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-   -   Not getting any help anywhere else. (https://www.miataturbo.net/general-miata-chat-9/not-getting-any-help-anywhere-else-18534/)

NAshowdown95 03-19-2008 11:29 PM

Not getting any help anywhere else.
 
i have a 95 that im having problems with.

i can pin the car at WOT whether sitting still or driving and bogs all the way down to where it starts misfiring off it sounds like 3 cylinders
it hesitates under any slight aggressive throttle touch i cant even roll into it hard it makes this poppy sound like its misfiring or not firing at all and the revs drop slowly if i hold it..if i let out it will run normal again this is a daily driver and i wouldnt have posted here if i could get an answer anywhere else...
cr.net isnt doing me any good
and neither is m.net
getting a #1 code
#1-Ignition Signal

plugs-new
wires-roughly only 9-10k miles on them
MAF-new
coil pack-new

gladly appreciate any help

Trent 03-19-2008 11:32 PM

Have you searched that code? Could be a problem with the CAS.

Check your grounds. The main grounding strap on the driver's side of the engine. Also check the ECU grounds on the back of the head. (At least that's where they are on a 1.6. I'm honestly not sure where they are on a 1.8.)

Also, how is your vacuum? Does the car idle okay?

Was this a clear out of the blue problem, or did it happen after making any changes to the car?

cjernigan 03-19-2008 11:34 PM

Normally I would say you're experiencing a lean condition.
Are you NA? Is the car basically stock? If not what type of fuel management of EMS are you running. Need a little more info. If your ignition system is all new then that shouldn't be a problem. Does the car run just fine when you're not hammering on it? Have you cleaned up all of your electrical connections, primarily your grounds, including the battery.

paul 03-19-2008 11:45 PM

easy one. its the stock FPR on the fuel rail. try clamping the return fuel line closed and taking it for a spin. if its better then your FPR isn't working properly. take it off, clean it, or replace it.

or cas

NAshowdown95 03-19-2008 11:51 PM

its N/A no forced induction ever put on the motor ever..

it has simple bolt ons
intake
header
catback
stock fuel system and engine management
only 120k miles on the car
cleaned and regrounded all the engine grounds
this problem started just out of the blue
it idles fine and runs fine if i dont stab the throttle, i have to be UBER delicate with how much throttle i give or it bogs out and makes a poppy sound under the hood as if the fuel is igniting off the header.

rleete 03-20-2008 08:33 AM

Clogged fuel filter or line?

m2cupcar 03-20-2008 08:49 AM

That really, really sounds like a ground. My 91 did that w/o the chassis-to-engine ground connected. Anything past half throttle and it'd barely move BUT that was only under load. Free revving was fine. Have you put a timing light on it to see what the IGN is doing at the areas prone to misfire?

Newbsauce 03-20-2008 09:15 AM

Fuel system... Fuel pump.. FPR..filter.. run down the line.

SloS13 03-20-2008 09:54 AM

even though your wires are new, try some known good ones. Also take a look at your plugs to see what color they are.

BenR 03-20-2008 10:45 AM

Start with the basics and narrow it down.

Are the pops coming out of hte intake? If so it could be a clogged cat.
Do you have fuel at all?
Are you getting spark at all?
Is the fuel filter clogged?
What's your base timing like?
What do the plugs look like?
Did this start happening after you changed something? Like the MAF?
List everything that was changed and the order you changed it, even if it doesn't seem related.

Zabac 03-20-2008 10:56 AM

he replaced the plugs, coils, MAF after the problem started
i had him check the CAS ans cas harness, found one foul wire in harness, isolated it but problem still there, so thats not it
i think he ran a test on the CAS so i doubt thats it, but im not sure...

now that i think about it, i did have a similar problem about 4 years ago, new fuel filter did it.
the rattling sound could be ping/knock maybe, due to lean condition...
fuel filter is cheapest to replace, so i would start there
also, i have a spare fuel rail and FPR if you want to test that out...
let me know, ill be up there sunday

rleete 03-20-2008 11:10 AM

What's the code you get if you forget to reconnect (or have a bad connection) at the MAF?

Mine stumbled like that, but I got it home and started checking, only to discover it wasn't snapped in all the way, and was making only partial a connection. Plugged it in firmly, and the problem went away.

Zabac 03-20-2008 11:12 AM

he has code 1=ignition signal, i think this is a separate issue for him...just a bad ignition switch, nothing to do with car bogging, leaning out, stalling...
im leaning more to the fuel now

rleete 03-20-2008 11:16 AM

Well, then I stand by my earlier diagnosis of clogged filter!

NAshowdown95 03-20-2008 01:23 PM

fuel filter and pump are only about a year old...
spark plugs are golden/brown
and i am getting power/signal from the ECU to the CAS i tested the harness connector so i dont believe its a wiring issue such as an open in the circuit and i cleaned and reground all the engine to chassis grounds

IcantDo55 03-20-2008 01:31 PM

What about timing? Belt could have jumped, seen that before.

Newbsauce 03-20-2008 01:33 PM

Hook up a fuel pressure gauge and clamp the line, that will tell you if the pump/filter are an issue. If that isn't it, move on to the FPR.

NAshowdown95 03-20-2008 01:36 PM


Originally Posted by IcantDo55 (Post 230866)
What about timing? Belt could have jumped, seen that before.

checked timing 2 days after the problem arose and timing is fine.

IcantDo55 03-20-2008 01:47 PM

A jumped timing belt won't show up as bad timing.


Originally Posted by NAshowdown95 (Post 230874)
checked timing 2 days after the problem arose and timing is fine.


NAshowdown95 03-20-2008 02:02 PM

well the reason im not worried whether or not it jumped a tooth is because ive experienced the car jumping a tooth and im confident id know if it did due to prior experience

miataz 03-20-2008 02:38 PM

Wires, your spark plug wires, i changed mine and it bogged, try using high octane, when i put new ones in it bogged but now its fine...could be strong of a spark not high enough octane idunno. All im saying is that it happened to me but stopped a short while after i installed MS so cant help ya out there.

NAshowdown95 03-20-2008 02:45 PM


Originally Posted by miataz (Post 230911)
Wires, your spark plug wires, i changed mine and it bogged, try using high octane, when i put new ones in it bogged but now its fine...could be strong of a spark not high enough octane idunno. All im saying is that it happened to me but stopped a short while after i installed MS so cant help ya out there.

ive ran 93 octane in the car since i started driving it (roughly year and a half ago)

thanks for the suggestions though i appreciate the help.

Arkmage 03-20-2008 02:47 PM

clogged cat.

NAshowdown95 03-20-2008 03:10 PM


Originally Posted by Arkmage (Post 230922)
clogged cat.

clogged cat explains the poppy sound from under the hood when pinned at WOT and all the hesitation problems along with the bogging down and misfiring?

Ben 03-20-2008 03:13 PM

unbolt the cat and find out.

BenR 03-20-2008 03:19 PM


Originally Posted by NAshowdown95 (Post 230942)
clogged cat explains the poppy sound from under the hood when pinned at WOT and all the hesitation problems along with the bogging down and misfiring?




It definately does.

m2cupcar 03-20-2008 04:09 PM

:werd:

NAshowdown95 03-21-2008 02:48 AM


Originally Posted by BenR (Post 230947)
It definately does.

ok im gonna check in the morning to see if the cat is clogged....

what causes it to be clogged just running rich or something else?

also i do not have EGR anymore its been sealed off dont know exactly what type of effect that might have on a cat converter except maybe not make things run as rich?

NAshowdown95 03-21-2008 01:57 PM

I checked the ECU pin 2I-Igniter
and its WAYYYY above spec numbers

Spec:
Ign switch on- Below .5v
Idle-Approx. 1v

My Readings:
Ign switch on-10.2x
Idle-11.6x

Bad ground? if so which 1 to check?

NAshowdown95 03-21-2008 10:52 PM

ive re-grounded ALL my engine grounds
checked for continuity on all of them
all my ECU pin voltage's are good EXCEPT the 2I (Igniter) which is supposed to be approx. 1v at idle and im showing 11.6 at idle
and i am throwing a #1 code which is Igniter Signal

plugs/wires good
CAS good
MAF good
coil pack good

in the morning im going to peel open the ignition harness (if thats what you want to call it) and start looking for a damaged wire because high voltage on those Igniter connectors tell me that there is low resistance/bad ground but the grounds all across the motor are FINE and checked out good with good reading so my guess is bad contact inside the harness somewhere. sound like im headed in the right direction to you?

NAshowdown95 03-23-2008 01:22 AM

cat is not clogged...
pulled the ignition harness today and saw no damaged wires in it everything is intact no loose connections...still no problem solved...what else do i need to test?

checked voltage on the ECU constant grounds (2A,2B,2C,2D) got approx .01v on those which i didnt think too substantial sounded about right?

still getting unsually high voltage from the igniter pin

mtncrvr 03-23-2008 09:11 AM

Put a timing light on it just to be sure and post your numbers. The more you post the more likely someone here will have an answer. Mine skipped timing and had serious bogging. I've also had bad wires and got bogging. FYI: When timing was off I got all sorts of codes none of which indicated timing.

Arkmage 03-23-2008 10:52 AM

if you are having ignition issues this severe you will likely need a new cat by the time you debug the whole thing. I'd recommend getting a new ignitor as it sounds like this one is hosed.

NAshowdown95 03-23-2008 02:15 PM


Originally Posted by Arkmage (Post 232155)
if you are having ignition issues this severe you will likely need a new cat by the time you debug the whole thing. I'd recommend getting a new ignitor as it sounds like this one is hosed.

1.8 igniter is built into the coil pack correct?

cjernigan 03-23-2008 08:25 PM

Yes 1.8 coils have built in ignitors. 80% sure anyway. I know all NBs do.

NAshowdown95 03-23-2008 08:49 PM


Originally Posted by cjernigan (Post 232343)
Yes 1.8 coils have built in ignitors. 80% sure anyway. I know all NBs do.

and i replaced the coil pack so i dont think its a "bad ignitor"

paul 03-24-2008 12:42 PM

did we check the FPR yet?

IcantDo55 03-24-2008 12:45 PM

Keep us updated.

I still got dibs on timing.

ArtieParty 03-24-2008 12:48 PM


Originally Posted by paul (Post 232669)
did we check the FPR yet?

why would he check something when u clearly labelled ur first response with "EASY one. its ur FPR"?

he said his fuel pump and filter were a year old but im guessing he didnt even bother to check like you told him to.

Zabac 03-24-2008 01:00 PM

more info for you guys...
the problem he is having gets worse when its raining...
I still think its electrical especialy after that fact

steelrat 03-24-2008 01:22 PM

Check all your grounds. The large one that runs from under the brake master to the back of the head.... the one behind the intake manifold (It actually is the ground for the coils), the one in front below the TPS....

Check also for bad wiring on the CAS too.....

Check your TPS is within spec too. It's possible the TPS is dying.

The coils ... did you put in the same "spec" coils? 95.5 will have 3 wire coils, and the earlier cars will have the 4 wire coils like the 94's.... May make a difference.....

Dave,

paul 03-24-2008 01:24 PM

any chance the MAF wiring has ever been modified? my girlfriend's 94 must have had a JR CAI on it at one point before she bought it because the MAF harness was elongated. The guy did a shitty job insulating the wires after and when it rained water could collect in the sheathing and cause a short and the car ran rough and poppy like that.

Zabac 03-24-2008 01:55 PM

he does have the propper coils (94-95 four wire, like mine)
Maf harness i checked it out, not been manipulated with
TPS is a good possibility, inaccurate reading, etc.

all his grounds are good, we cleaned all three of them
i think he checked the CAS harness, i think he did unbundle it and saw no damagesd wires, and im pretty sure he ran a continuity test as well
im not sure if he checked the coil harness yet, i know the ground is good, we moved it over to the valve cover, not sure where it's supposed to be since my car is also on the valve cover...and yes, that is a good connection, we ground the valve cover down to make sure there is a good connection
he is getting new wires though, just in case, his have 11K on then and they look good, but not the OEM ones...so we'll see how that goes

NAshowdown95 03-25-2008 12:28 AM

Did the "FPR" test. not the problem.

i do need to check the TPS which is something i havent tested most of my time and effort has been aimed at the CAS and Ignition Coils

i checked the Coil Harness and im getting a HIGH reading out of the 2I wire (Black w/ white stripe) its supposed to be .5v ign on at the ECU pin and its 10.4 so this is whats leading me to believe bad connection to a ground somewhere but possibly even an ECU problem. Also at idle at the Coil harness connector im reading 11.62 at on the Ignitor wire (Black w/ white stripe)

good continuity to ALL grounds and every other wire in the Ignition coil harness is in spec as well as all the other ECU pin voltages the CAS harness wires are all in spec and good.
im going to find the test for the TPS and try to do it even though i dont have a feeler gauge to do the test with. Other then that, im going to replace my wires with high quality wires and see if i can find someone i can swap out a CAS with to see if it eliminates the problem. I guess last resort will be swapping out ECU's.

NAshowdown95 04-22-2008 02:20 AM

never figured it out...
im not getting the igniter signal code anymore.
i am getting a sticking o2 sensor code now.

car only runs for about 15 min or so and it will start to hesitate and surge thru the power range when it does actually pull. the check engine light will come on and the car will lose all power but not stall cant even rev the RPMs. Runs uber rich too. Unplugged the o2 harness and turned the car on tried giving it some throttle and it backfires back through the air filter? Hesitates and stumbles to even rev up.

NAshowdown95 04-22-2008 04:35 PM

I just went out and started the car it sounds as if its running on 3 cylinders.
Pulled #1 it stalled.
Pulled #2 it bogged.
Pulled #3 it done nothing (could hear the spark though)
Pulled #4 it done the same as #3 cylinder.

Car dies out if you give it any throttle.

m2cupcar 04-22-2008 04:41 PM


Originally Posted by paul (Post 232697)
...MAF wiring...

Did you swap out the MAF? I had a bad AFM on a 90 that did something similar.

Zabac 04-22-2008 04:41 PM

sounds weired as shit
i still thing you have issues in your wire harness

M2-he did, has two MAFs

NAshowdown95 04-22-2008 04:49 PM


Originally Posted by Zabac (Post 246006)
sounds weired as shit
i still thing you have issues in your wire harness

M2-he did, has two MAFs

I believe so as well.
shit just dont do justice for the out of spec numbers off the ECU.

i gotta go to work man ill see you this weekend?

Zabac 04-22-2008 04:50 PM

Yeah man...
we can throw my ECU in there just in case, to at least eliminate that as a possibility

NAshowdown95 04-22-2008 10:48 PM

im going to pull out the passenger seat and pull up the carpet tomorrow to look for any water damage or damaged wires in general in the harness.


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