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Old 10-03-2009, 02:40 AM   #1
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Default possible re-route or am I crazy?

Searched around, did a bit of learning, read a ton of threads and am now going to plan my re-route using other people's as example. EXCEPT I want to modify mine a tiny bit and see if you guys think its a good idea.

Now I'm not "Hyper", so if I'm completely wrong or my idea is flawed feel free to e-slap some sense into me


I'm planning to do a "spacerless" re-route along the lines of what brgracer did. HOWEVER, I will be routing mine on the cold side, and instead of drilling the head for the "heater hose" I'll be drilling the water neck AFTER the thermostat in the back of the head.

Here's MY little idea of changing it:

What if I reverse flow through the heater core? Its just a heat exchanger from what I understand, so it shouldn't hurt anything, correct? Or am I wrong?

The cold water from the radiator will go to the engine as well as the turbo, then the part of it from the turbo will go through the heater, then join the water coming out of the back of the head, mix, and both will go to the radiator to get cooled off.

Here's my take on it:


Do I have a legit idea here or am I smoking crack?

I'll be doing a re-route no matter what, that's decided. If my idea is stupid I'll just do it the "regular" way and stop sniffing glue

Just a thought.
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Old 10-03-2009, 03:03 AM   #2
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Yes the heater core flow can be reversed. But I think the rest of your idea is incorrect. The mixing manifold which the radiator outlet clamps to is an "in" only. It's where the heater core return line is normally piped and will not be shooting cold water out. Also pressurized water from the back of the head will split and go part way to the top of the radiator, and partway into the heater core, where you're wanting it to go the other way. Anyways, with your current picture, if you put an inline thermostat to the long upper radiator hose, it should work, you're just thinking bass ackwards in terms of flow direction. *crossing fingers I'm correct*
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Old 10-03-2009, 09:59 AM   #3
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So what happens until the thermostat opens?

I might be missing part of this scheme...but it seems overly complicated and doesn't get enough coolant flow during warmup. I also think routing anything through the turbo besides just cooling the turbo is a bad idea. Haven't seen any numbers on flow...but I doubt it's close to what the heater core is used to seeing.

A spacer isn't a big deal...and allows you to do several things. I got the $15 one from Moss...which can be drilled for sensors. I wanted a standalone functional temp gauge, and needed a spot for the second 1.6L OEM sensor that you don't have to worry about. You could use yours for the heater supply and an extra sensor.

If you still want to go spacerless I'd stick with a more conventional setup. The only great thing I see about your idea now is that you are apparently SPACERLESS and WATERNECKLESS. Looks like you're trying to do away with the turbo feed/return and heater feed that generally need to be at the front of the head. I really want to pull it all out and put a freeze plug there too...but then you're getting to the point you need a spacer in the back and are moving a lot of fittings/hoses around. This usually requires a kit or a lot of work.

Maybe clarify your idea a little with a diagram...I promise not to go Hyper on your ***, although if it's funny I may use it as an avatar for a week or two.
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Old 10-03-2009, 11:08 AM   #4
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The reason you put the heater core prior to the thermostat is so that you have flow until the thermostat opens
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Old 10-03-2009, 01:54 PM   #5
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Yeah, water is not going to flow through the heater in the direction you've shown. The port at the mixing manifold is the lowest pressure point in the whole system, it's always going to suck water in, not spit it out. Once the thermostat is open, water will flow just fine, but while the thermostat is closed, you'll have nearly zero coolant circulation in the system.

You always need to be taking water for the heater core / bypass from a point in the system that is before the thermostat.
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Old 10-03-2009, 02:02 PM   #6
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Is money the only reason you're not using a spacer? Since you're pulling the engine anyways, it would make installation much easier.
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Old 10-03-2009, 02:25 PM   #7
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That will work IF you use a remote t'stat housing on the return hose and the heater feed fell between the t'stat housing and cyl head.

Flow direction in/out of the heater core would be reversed from your diagram.
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Old 10-03-2009, 03:31 PM   #8
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DAMN!

There are diagrams....looks like I'm back on the blocked list at work...or someone reset the blocking machine. I was wondering why there was such a lack of graphics today.

COMMENTS:

As drawn...flow would not be reversed through the heater core. It simply will not flow (or flow veeewy little) when t-stat is closed...and then be forced through heater core AND turbo on way back to mixing manifold.

Like Ben said...if you put an in-line t-stat in the coldside return it will work. This means there is no thermostat at all in the rear neck...and everything works without a spacer. You would still have decent warm-up times etc. Only thing I worry about is coolant flow through turbo...but I honestly have no idea if it's insufficient, just judging by size of the feed/return lines everyone runs compared to heater core size. You are also feeding hot water to the turbo...and need to consider that it will follow the path of least resistance.

This may be the coldside return...but having a thermostat over there may even things out as far as pressure differentials. You would have the t-stat and radiator on one circuit from pump outlet to pump inlet...and the heater core and turbo on the other.

I would say for what you are doing it achieves your goals. It evens coolant flow across the head, and the slightly hotter coolant in the turbo should still give a high enough deltaT to keep the bearings cool. Should you decide to track it I would give it a second thought...but for just showing your old Suby buddies what's up I would worry about it.
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Old 10-03-2009, 04:46 PM   #9
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Ok so that idea is total failure. No worries, its just an idea. I obviously need another lesson in fluid dynamics.

Welp I'll be doing it the "conventional" way then.

About the spacer: I DON'T MIND using one, its not that I'm absolutely against the idea, its the 89 dollar price tag (from begi) that makes me cringe. Sure sure I sound like an absolute stingy bastard, but this little piston melting adventure of mine is ending up costing me WAY more than I thought it would. So I want to do things on the cheap.

Godspeed you mention a $15 spacer from "moss". Care to share some details? If there really is a 15 dollar spacer I'll ****** it up right away.
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Old 10-04-2009, 11:06 PM   #10
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Why do you ******* keep trying to overcomplicate a goddamn coolant re-route? It's simple!!! Get a spacer, let your ***** drop and don't be afriad to scrape up your knuckles working in a tight space.
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Old 10-05-2009, 08:37 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doppelgänger View Post
Why do you ******* keep trying to overcomplicate a goddamn coolant re-route? It's simple!!! Get a spacer, let your ***** drop and don't be afriad to scrape up your knuckles working in a tight space.
Seriously.
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Old 10-05-2009, 08:43 AM   #12
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Hey doppelganger how much did Your machinist charge you for your spacer?
-=G=-
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Old 10-05-2009, 12:18 PM   #13
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Here's what mine looks like.

You won't find it on any of their menus, but instead have to manually add it to your cart by part number (051-046).

I got the idea from someone's m.net thread. If you have problems site search over there for "cheap reroute spacer."
Attached Thumbnails
possible re-route or am I crazy?-spacer1.jpg   possible re-route or am I crazy?-spacer2.jpg  
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Old 10-05-2009, 12:19 PM   #14
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then you gotta drop it off at a machine shop to get the thermostat lip.

ask begi to sell you a blank one, that's what I did:

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Old 10-05-2009, 12:20 PM   #15
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or if you're me you just take it up to work and machine the lip and drill holes for your sensors.
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Old 10-05-2009, 12:40 PM   #16
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or that.
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Old 10-05-2009, 12:54 PM   #17
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is that a ***** drawn on your spacer?
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Old 10-05-2009, 12:56 PM   #18
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of course.
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Old 10-05-2009, 01:00 PM   #19
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lmao

so your spacer was just another "pain in the ***" for you?
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Old 10-05-2009, 01:01 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverend Greg View Post
Hey doppelganger how much did Your machinist charge you for your spacer?
-=G=-

Too damn little, that's for sure. I think I ripped him off for a spacer the fit perfectly AND had the PERFECT groove machined in for the t-stat to snugly fit into
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